From UnitedWorldFriends at linxzit.net Thu Jun 4 07:36:02 1998 From: UnitedWorldFriends at linxzit.net (UnitedWorldFriends at linxzit.net) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 07:36:02 +0200 Subject: Special World Friends Message-ID: <989.283923.401826 UnitedWorldFriends@linxzit.net> United World Friends Invitation # 201029 Dear World Friend: I am sure that by now you have tried all the "Get-Rich-Quick" schemes out there, and are ready and willing to turn your attention to something that really works. Most people are. Read on to unlock this Secret Door to your future. Would you like to quietly make extra money every month, year after year, and all of it be tax free? I knew you would. Now you can with the help of our World-Wide private network of friends helping friends. I would like to invite you to join a very special group of people and make the kind of money you are seeking. We have a private program based in the USA that extends around the entire world. 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You decide if you want to be part of our private network on your own after you review the information package. This is a private club with the privacy of each and every member protected. Quiet, confidential and comfortable. Mail this ENTIRE LETTER along with $3.00 inside US - $4.00 outside US (CASH only USD) for printing and postage to: UWF-Info * POBox 802-dd * CLEMMONS NC * 27012-0802 * USA Name: ______________________________________________________________ Address: __________________________________________________________ City: _______________________ State: _________ Zip: ____________ Country: ____________________ Email: ____________ at ________________ #201029 From JimFleming at unety.net Fri Jun 12 03:10:44 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:10:44 -0500 Subject: Door Number 1, 2, or 3 ? Message-ID: <01BD9575.0480BCE0@webster.unir.net> On Thursday, June 11, 1998 7:14 PM, Craig Simon[SMTP:cls at flywheel.com] wrote: @I'm not sure I'll be able to afford to attend, but I was able to get @myself added to the participant list pretty easily, which I take as a @reasonably good indication that the GIAW is open. If I can get in then @I'm sure you others can. @ The number of casual observers to the domain name debates is clearly growing. There are now at least three directions that these people can head, plus several other forums and lists that have been around for years. 1. IANA (New) - http://www.iana.org 2. ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE - http://www.gtld-mou.org 3. Network Solutions, Inc. - http://www.giaw.org I suggest that people get behind the people forming the new IANA (#1 above) and take the following steps: A. Join the recently re-opened "newdom" mailing list for an open discussion on how to bring the serious stakeholders together ONLINE, via the Internet. Send a "subscribe" message body to majordomo at ar.com. B. Help the current IANA "staff" incorporate as a non-profit company. C. Launch the new IANA with a 15 person board appointed as follows: 3 - http://www.iana.org and "newdom" discussions 3 - http://www.gtld-mou.org and mail lists 3 - http://www.giaw.org meeting in July and open-rsc lists 3 - http://www.ripe.net dns & tld working groups 3 - APNIC & Australian DNS discussions dns at iia.net.au D. Deploy a NEW robust collection of RFC 2010 Root Name Servers E. Delegate .US, .COM, .NET and .ORG to the legacy NSI servers F. Deploy THREE new TLDs from the CORE choices for Switzerland (.CH) G. Allow ALL other existing country code TLD registries to select 3 more TLDs H. Select a 16 person IANA Inc. Advisory Committee by Choosing 2 people from each of the IPv8 regions shown here: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt This proposal should be easy for people following #2 to adopt. In my opinion, it will be the shortest path to introducing new TLDs to the general public. The 80+ CORE Registrars should be able to compete in the OPEN market place against the people that are trying to organize #3 above, behind closed doors in Washington, D.C. In my opinion, those people should be asked to supply 3 board members to the new IANA Inc. which should be well on its way to incorporation by July 4, 1998. Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ IS Coordinator for the AM Radio Station Registry - http://www.DOT.AM From JimFleming at unety.net Fri Jun 12 03:10:44 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:10:44 -0500 Subject: Door Number 1, 2, or 3 ? Message-ID: <01BD9575.0480BCE0@webster.unir.net> On Thursday, June 11, 1998 7:14 PM, Craig Simon[SMTP:cls at flywheel.com] wrote: @I'm not sure I'll be able to afford to attend, but I was able to get @myself added to the participant list pretty easily, which I take as a @reasonably good indication that the GIAW is open. If I can get in then @I'm sure you others can. @ The number of casual observers to the domain name debates is clearly growing. There are now at least three directions that these people can head, plus several other forums and lists that have been around for years. 1. IANA (New) - http://www.iana.org 2. ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE - http://www.gtld-mou.org 3. Network Solutions, Inc. - http://www.giaw.org I suggest that people get behind the people forming the new IANA (#1 above) and take the following steps: A. Join the recently re-opened "newdom" mailing list for an open discussion on how to bring the serious stakeholders together ONLINE, via the Internet. Send a "subscribe" message body to majordomo at ar.com. B. Help the current IANA "staff" incorporate as a non-profit company. C. Launch the new IANA with a 15 person board appointed as follows: 3 - http://www.iana.org and "newdom" discussions 3 - http://www.gtld-mou.org and mail lists 3 - http://www.giaw.org meeting in July and open-rsc lists 3 - http://www.ripe.net dns & tld working groups 3 - APNIC & Australian DNS discussions dns at iia.net.au D. Deploy a NEW robust collection of RFC 2010 Root Name Servers E. Delegate .US, .COM, .NET and .ORG to the legacy NSI servers F. Deploy THREE new TLDs from the CORE choices for Switzerland (.CH) G. Allow ALL other existing country code TLD registries to select 3 more TLDs H. Select a 16 person IANA Inc. Advisory Committee by Choosing 2 people from each of the IPv8 regions shown here: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/domainname/130dftmail/unir.txt This proposal should be easy for people following #2 to adopt. In my opinion, it will be the shortest path to introducing new TLDs to the general public. The 80+ CORE Registrars should be able to compete in the OPEN market place against the people that are trying to organize #3 above, behind closed doors in Washington, D.C. In my opinion, those people should be asked to supply 3 board members to the new IANA Inc. which should be well on its way to incorporation by July 4, 1998. Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ IS Coordinator for the AM Radio Station Registry - http://www.DOT.AM From NNtMoxVHV at pro1p1hiteys.com Sat Jun 13 06:43:13 1998 From: NNtMoxVHV at pro1p1hiteys.com (NNtMoxVHV at pro1p1hiteys.com) Date: 13 Jun 98 6:43:13 PM Subject: Every Active Member Deserves A Paycheck! Message-ID: <2cFU843qlLBJ7> Every Active Member Deserves A Paycheck! No Sponsoring Required To Get A Paycheck! ***The True Network Marketers Dream.*** Simple And Unbelievably Lucrative! Click Here For More Information> http://www.gwc1.com/members/ch76/gwc1.htm To be removed - remove58 at hotmail.com or call 904-282-0945 From robert.shaw at itu.int Fri Jun 19 17:55:18 1998 From: robert.shaw at itu.int (Robert Shaw) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:55:18 +0200 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <358A89E6.F130E593@itu.int> Hi, At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey conducted by ITU of Internet ISO 3166-based top level domains. The material is in in draft form and is made available in order to solicit public comment. Information includes all known URLs for registration. While every attempt has been made to ensure accuracy, the information cannot be considered authoritative as the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) is the authoritative source for ISO 3166-based top level domain delegation information. All raw data gathered has been and will continue to be provided to IANA. Comments and/or corrections on these pages should be sent to Ms. Asa Johansson at . Denominations and classifications employed in this publication do not imply any opinion on the part of the ITU concerning the legal or other status of any territory or any endorsement or acceptance of any boundary. Thanks, Robert -- Robert Shaw Advisor, Global Information Infrastructure International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland From bob at wtv.net Fri Jun 19 18:30:10 1998 From: bob at wtv.net (Bob Allisat) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:30:10 -0400 Subject: (fwd) .US domain managed by the Post office? Message-ID: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:02:56 -0400 >Reply-To: "Phillip C. Reed" >Sender: Owner-Domain-Policy >From: "Phillip C. Reed" >Subject: .US domain managed by the Post office? >To: DOMAIN-POLICY at LISTS.INTERNIC.NET > >Some people may recall that a few days ago, Robert Shaw dropped a comment >about the USG revamping the .US domain. However, details were lacking. > >Interested parties should take a look at >http://frisket.cstone.net/~jamie/usps.html, a recent Cook Report. The >bottom half purports to be the proposal. > >I'm posting this without comment (the first half of this page have quite a >bit of commentary, however). > >phil reed >libbey inc. >reedpc at libbey.com > Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network bob at wtv.net - (416) 534-1999 - http://www.wtv.net Free Community Network - .FCN free TLD Registry - http://fcn.net From JimFleming at unety.net Fri Jun 19 18:57:14 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:57:14 -0500 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <01BD9B79.66F014C0@webster.unir.net> On Friday, June 19, 1998 10:55 AM, Robert Shaw[SMTP:robert.shaw at itu.int] wrote: @Hi, @ @At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey Robert, With so many 2-letter TLDs being operated by people with an exclusive personal interest and little or no association to a country, how do you see the future position of the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE evolving with respect to those TLDs ? In other words, why are those TLDs exempt from the "exclusive is bad" model that you promote ? Do you think the new IANA will bring all of the 2-letter TLDs into conformance with the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE model ? Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From jbroom at manta.outremer.com Fri Jun 19 21:26:36 1998 From: jbroom at manta.outremer.com (John Charles Broomfield) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:26:36 -0400 (AST) Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey In-Reply-To: <01BD9B79.66F014C0@webster.unir.net> from "Jim Fleming" at Jun 19, 98 11:57:14 am Message-ID: <199806191926.PAA05675@manta.outremer.com> Hi Jim, As far as I'm concerned and WRT TLDs, the "exclusive is bad" applies ALWAYS. Having an individual UNILATERALLY and with no consensus decide how things are to be done is bad always. In the case of country code TLDs, the population that is going to get the service is pretty obvious; in general it will be those companies/organisations/individuals located in that specific geographical area, and what is important is to try and make sure that it is that population that is -in general- happy at the way things are run in that TLD. All lovely words of course, but lets see where the problems are... It is generally accepted that how a certain ccTLD is governed is a question to be answered by the government in place in that place. And whether you like it or not, it is ALWAYS the local government that is allowing that TLD to be governed in that way. They do it by either actively participating, by just letting things happen, or simply by not bothering to intervene. They ARE responsible for it though (another thing is arguing about dereliction (sp?) of duty... and personally I think ".us" would be a prime candidate). Nominet (for ".uk") is generally taken as an example of how to do things. However, much as you dislike the way a certain ccTLD is run, if it is not for your government, the only way to change it is to get THAT government to change it. It's not a question of "can they or can't they?" but rather "will they or won't they?" The fact that countries with flawed corrupt and non-democratic governments are part of the U.N. doesn't mean that the U.N. is flawed, corrupt and non-democratic. Those countries are not shaming the U.N. in any case, they are shaming themselves. However, trying to enter into how a foreign government applies its laws (or lack of them) and/or how it runs its ccTLD is naive at least. Yours, John Broomfield. P.S. Before you attack me for "exclusive control of ccTLDs", you know very well that we operate with full consensus of the local ISPs, and we are forming a (very small) non-profit which will operate (albeit in a much reduced fashion) to some extent a-la-Nominet. In any case, glad you can get some good discussions going every now and then. You had me worried... Even so, I'm sure you knew the answers already. > On Friday, June 19, 1998 10:55 AM, Robert Shaw[SMTP:robert.shaw at itu.int] wrote: > @Hi, > @ > @At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey > > Robert, > > With so many 2-letter TLDs being operated by people with an exclusive > personal interest and little or no association to a country, how do you > see the future position of the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE evolving > with respect to those TLDs ? > > In other words, why are those TLDs exempt from the "exclusive is bad" > model that you promote ? > > Do you think the new IANA will bring all of the 2-letter TLDs into conformance > with the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE model ? > > > Jim Fleming > Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com > 1998 - The Year of the C+@ > From JimFleming at unety.net Fri Jun 19 21:28:15 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:28:15 -0500 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <01BD9B8E.7F849AA0@webster.unir.net> On Friday, June 19, 1998 10:26 AM, John Charles Broomfield[SMTP:jbroom at manta.outremer.com] wrote: @ @Hi Jim, @ @ As far as I'm concerned and WRT TLDs, the "exclusive is bad" applies @ALWAYS. Having an individual UNILATERALLY and with no consensus decide how @things are to be done is bad always. I agree...in the IPv8 Plan there are 8 people that "govern" a TLD in a 2+2+4 Trusteeship. I will be submitting more details on the IPv8 Plan to the list. @ In the case of country code TLDs, the population that is going to @get the service is pretty obvious; in general it will be those @companies/organisations/individuals located in that specific geographical @area, and what is important is to try and make sure that it is that @population that is -in general- happy at the way things are run in that TLD. @All lovely words of course, but lets see where the problems are... @It is generally accepted that how a certain ccTLD is governed is a question @to be answered by the government in place in that place. And whether you @like it or not, it is ALWAYS the local government that is allowing that TLD @to be governed in that way. They do it by either actively participating, by @just letting things happen, or simply by not bothering to intervene. They @ARE responsible for it though (another thing is arguing about dereliction @(sp?) of duty... and personally I think ".us" would be a prime candidate). I am not sure it is fair to create something and then assume that a country has to step forward to manage it and if they do not that it is "OK" for someone else to exploit it. Also, what about 2-letter TLDs that do not seem to have a country ? .IO comes to mind. Are all of the fish in the Indian Ocean responsible ?...even if they do not use the Internet... @Nominet (for ".uk") is generally taken as an example of how to do things. @However, much as you dislike the way a certain ccTLD is run, if it is not @for your government, the only way to change it is to get THAT government to @change it. It's not a question of "can they or can't they?" but rather "will @they or won't they?" What percentage of 2-letter TLDs actually have active government involvement ? Do you consider the .US TLD under U.S. Government control ? @The fact that countries with flawed corrupt and non-democratic governments @are part of the U.N. doesn't mean that the U.N. is flawed, corrupt and @non-democratic. Those countries are not shaming the U.N. in any case, they @are shaming themselves. @However, trying to enter into how a foreign government applies its laws (or @lack of them) and/or how it runs its ccTLD is naive at least. It sounds to me like you are saying that there will never be any consistency in the 2-letter TLDs. If this is the case, then I suspect that we will have more people flocking to the new generic TLDs because it will be likely they can not trust their local government. In some cases, some of the 2-letter TLDs may disappear from lack of support or usage. @Yours, John Broomfield. @ @P.S. Before you attack me for "exclusive control of ccTLDs", you know very @well that we operate with full consensus of the local ISPs, and we are @forming a (very small) non-profit which will operate (albeit in a much @reduced fashion) to some extent a-la-Nominet. Sounds like a winner...keep up the good work... @ In any case, glad you can get some good discussions going every now @and then. You had me worried... Even so, I'm sure you knew the answers already. @ I asked Robert Shaw...and you answered... ...so I still do not know Robert Shaw's answers... @> On Friday, June 19, 1998 10:55 AM, Robert Shaw[SMTP:robert.shaw at itu.int] wrote: @> @Hi, @> @ @> @At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey @> @> Robert, @> @> With so many 2-letter TLDs being operated by people with an exclusive @> personal interest and little or no association to a country, how do you @> see the future position of the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE evolving @> with respect to those TLDs ? @> @> In other words, why are those TLDs exempt from the "exclusive is bad" @> model that you promote ? @> @> Do you think the new IANA will bring all of the 2-letter TLDs into conformance @> with the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE model ? @> Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From jbroom at manta.outremer.com Sat Jun 20 00:07:54 1998 From: jbroom at manta.outremer.com (John Charles Broomfield) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:07:54 -0400 (AST) Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey In-Reply-To: <01BD9B8E.7F849AA0@webster.unir.net> from "Jim Fleming" at Jun 19, 98 02:28:15 pm Message-ID: <199806192207.SAA10897@manta.outremer.com> > @Hi Jim, > @ As far as I'm concerned and WRT TLDs, the "exclusive is bad" applies > @ALWAYS. Having an individual UNILATERALLY and with no consensus decide how > @things are to be done is bad always. > > I agree... (SPAM about IPv8 deleted) Careful Jim, you're losing it again... > I am not sure it is fair to create something and then assume > that a country has to step forward to manage it and if they > do not that it is "OK" for someone else to exploit it. I really fail to see problems where you see them. The policy (despite what you may wish to disagree) has been that ISO-3166 2 letter codes are used in the IANA name space. The way to get them up and running is that any contact that comes from a given country asking for management of that code is considered to be the best authority until someone better comes along. I can't understand what you find wrong with this. IANA is not in the business to go around jet-setting from country to country to see who should or not manage a certain domain (and that would be interfering anyway). Let's look at it from the IANA perspective for a moment. Theres this country called Newby-newby-land which has never got in touch with you, so you have no contact with it either. Suddenly a person who resides there asks to manage the ".nn" tld becuse that's the corresponding code in ISO-3166. IANA can't really refuse, because if anyone is in a position to decide over something about "Newby-newby-land", and the choice is either IANA or a resident of Newby-newby-land, then it's obvious to me that it's the latter... If a couple of days later, someone from the ministry of Duck-raising of Newby-newby land turns up and asks for management of the TLD, then the question of who is in the position of deciding something about that country has two choices, either the resident or the ministry, and I also think it's obvious that its the ministry... Of course you can set up hypothetical questions like "What if the ministry of transport says A and the ministry of education says B?", or "What if there is a civil war and two different parties are declaring themselves as the legitimate government". These questions are like arguing about the sex of angels... > Also, > what about 2-letter TLDs that do not seem to have a country ? > > .IO comes to mind. Are all of the fish in the Indian Ocean > responsible ?...even if they do not use the Internet... I find it VERY hard to believe that *you* think that ".IO" stands for Indian Ocean. For general information, ".IO" as taken from the ISO-3166 list stands for British Indian Ocean Territory . There are quite a few small inhabited islands out there. I may well be wrong, but I would imagine that they ultimately come under UK sovereignty (corrections accepted), so there's your government. You talk about these cases in plural, so what other examples do you have? Why are you trying to mislead, Jim? (silly question). > @Nominet (for ".uk") is generally taken as an example of how to do things. > @However, much as you dislike the way a certain ccTLD is run, if it is not > @for your government, the only way to change it is to get THAT government to > @change it. It's not a question of "can they or can't they?" but rather "will > @they or won't they?" > > What percentage of 2-letter TLDs actually have active government involvement ? Ah, the word "active" comes in there... To be honest, I would imagine that those countries that are actually active are more than anything "screwing up" that particular TLD (but that's a personal opinion). The UK government is not actively involved, but is aware of Nominet. > Do you consider the .US TLD under U.S. Government control ? You yourself and so many others on this list certainly do, because you have always argued that IANA is under USG control... Yes, I consider ".US" to be under USG authority. The fact that the whitehouse has not yet stepped in to take over control of it doesn't mean that it's not under their authority. In fact, if there is any authority at all in the WP it's when they say that the ".US" situation should be worked on. > @The fact that countries with flawed corrupt and non-democratic governments > @are part of the U.N. doesn't mean that the U.N. is flawed, corrupt and > @non-democratic. Those countries are not shaming the U.N. in any case, they > @are shaming themselves. > @However, trying to enter into how a foreign government applies its laws (or > @lack of them) and/or how it runs its ccTLD is naive at least. > > It sounds to me like you are saying that there will never be any consistency > in the 2-letter TLDs. Oh, I'm well convinced that there will never be across the board consistency in the ccTLDs. Some will be managed in a fair way, and others will be managed in a completely unfair way, however this is just a reflection of how the world is, and it's seen from MY point of view. I view countries that are not under democratic rule to be "unfair" countries, however many who live there are perfectly happy. In some countries even today women do not have voting rights... Those in those countries will probably argue that I am living in sin or in corruption or... > If this is the case, then I suspect that we will have more > people flocking to the new generic TLDs because it will be likely they can > not trust their local government. In some cases, some of the 2-letter TLDs > may disappear from lack of support or usage. Not really... Probably those who live in countries where they can't trust their local government are going to be mandated by that government to follow the local policies. Those living in countries where things are well managed and/or in a fair way are going to continue to use the ccTLDs. If a ccTLD is mismanaged, it does create a certain amount of new registrations to go to the gTLDs, but those domains already registered don't pick up and leave (it's the lock-in dilema that many have argued for a long time, but that others fail to acknowledge the existance of). I am however convinced that a mismanaged ccTLD for a country that has a fair government will not remain mismanaged indefinitely, but will transform into a fairer system basically because of user-presure, so as more of the planet becomes internet-aware, more fairer the ccTLD management is going to be. I also think that it will generally go along the lines of nominet. Yours, John Broomfield. From JimFleming at unety.net Sat Jun 20 00:10:32 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:10:32 -0500 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <01BD9BA5.2BC3C000@webster.unir.net> On Friday, June 19, 1998 1:07 PM, John Charles Broomfield[SMTP:jbroom at manta.outremer.com] wrote: @I am however convinced that a mismanaged ccTLD for a country that has a fair @government will not remain mismanaged indefinitely, but will transform into @a fairer system basically because of user-presure, so as more of the planet @becomes internet-aware, more fairer the ccTLD management is going to be. I @also think that it will generally go along the lines of nominet. @ Let's get down to specifics. How about something closer to home? Look at the .VI TLD in the U.S. Virgin Islands. How do you feel it is being managed ? Do you think that RFC 1591 rules govern the .VI TLD ? @@@@ http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1591.txt "The key requirement is that for each domain there be a designated manager for supervising that domain's name space." ... "The manager must, of course, be on the Internet." ... "The designated manager must be equitable to all groups in the domain that request domain names. This means that the same rules are applied to all requests, all requests must be processed in a non-discriminatory fashion, and academic and commercial (and other) users are treated on an equal basis. No bias shall be shown regarding requests that may come from customers of some other business related to the manager -- e.g., no preferential service for customers of a particular data network provider. There can be no requirement that a particular mail system (or other application), protocol, or product be used." @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From jbroom at manta.outremer.com Sat Jun 20 00:40:31 1998 From: jbroom at manta.outremer.com (John Charles Broomfield) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:40:31 -0400 (AST) Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey In-Reply-To: <01BD9BA5.2BC3C000@webster.unir.net> from "Jim Fleming" at Jun 19, 98 05:10:32 pm Message-ID: <199806192240.SAA11627@manta.outremer.com> > On Friday, June 19, 1998 1:07 PM, John Charles Broomfield[SMTP:jbroom at manta.outremer.com] wrote: > > @I am however convinced that a mismanaged ccTLD for a country that has a fair > @government will not remain mismanaged indefinitely, but will transform into > @a fairer system basically because of user-presure, so as more of the planet > @becomes internet-aware, more fairer the ccTLD management is going to be. I > @also think that it will generally go along the lines of nominet. > @ > > Let's get down to specifics. How about something closer to home? > > Look at the .VI TLD in the U.S. Virgin Islands. > > How do you feel it is being managed ? Hi Jim, Why do you ask me? -I'm not a U.S. citizen. -I don't live in the U.S. V.I. -I don't have any business or customers there. -I have nothing to do at all with the US V.I. (AFAIK) -I have no idea with how it is managed, nor any interest in finding out to be honest... Yeah, it's geographically "close" to where I live (Guadeloupe), but in this day and age, the whole world is close. I'm not sure where you live (is it Illinois or USVI), but if you feel that *you* have a problem with the USVI, try and get some USVI governmental institutions involved if you can't seem to get the current management of the TLD to listen to you... In other words, I feel that the way the USVI manages its TLD is non of my business. Yours, John. From JimFleming at unety.net Sat Jun 20 00:26:51 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:26:51 -0500 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <01BD9BA7.72D446C0@webster.unir.net> On Friday, June 19, 1998 1:40 PM, John Charles Broomfield[SMTP:jbroom at manta.outremer.com] wrote: @ @I'm not sure where you live (is it Illinois or USVI), but if you feel that @*you* have a problem with the USVI, try and get some USVI governmental @institutions involved if you can't seem to get the current management of the @TLD to listen to you... @ John, I am really shocked that you did NOT recommend that we take this up with the IANA. What good does it do to talk to the governments ? As you recently posted, TLDs are given to the first person that knocks on IANA's door. The government probably does not have a clue or care what is going on. The IANA holds all the cards... Again...I am shocked that you did not point this out... Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From JimFleming at unety.net Sat Jun 20 00:41:37 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:41:37 -0500 Subject: New TLDS for Old Administrators Message-ID: <01BD9BA9.83304940@webster.unir.net> John, How do feel about the proposal to allow ALL existing 2-letter TLD managers to select 3 additional generic TLDs to help increase the number of TLDs ? Switzerland (.CH) and CORE could team up... Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From william at tjns.tj Sat Jun 20 01:03:34 1998 From: william at tjns.tj (william at tjns.tj) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:03:34 -0700 Subject: Yet more FlemSpam Re: New TLDS for Old Administrators In-Reply-To: <01BD9BA9.83304940@webster.unir.net> Message-ID: From: Jim Fleming To: "'John Charles Broomfield'" Copies to: "apcctld-discussion at apng.org" , "dns-wg at ripe.net" , "DOMAIN-POLICY at LISTS.INTERNIC.NET" , "gtld-discuss at gtld-mou.org" , "pab at gtld-mou.org" Subject: New TLDS for Old Administrators Date sent: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:41:37 -0500 You continue to discuss some mysterious plan to allow this, but NO record of such a proposal being considered by ANY of those involved in this process seems to exist. How do you feel, Jim, about people who continue to provide intentionally misleading and many times down and out right incorrect information in order to try and give themselves and their own proposals more credibility? --William > > John, > > How do feel about the proposal to allow ALL existing > 2-letter TLD managers to select 3 additional generic > TLDs to help increase the number of TLDs ? > > Switzerland (.CH) and CORE could team up... > > > Jim Fleming > Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com > 1998 - The Year of the C+@ > -- William X. Walsh, Director, Network Operations TJ Network Services william at tjns.tj http://www.tjns.tj Domain Name Services at http://www.fastnames.tj Email Services coming soon! From robert.shaw at itu.int Fri Jun 19 17:55:18 1998 From: robert.shaw at itu.int (Robert Shaw) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:55:18 +0200 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <358A89E6.F130E593@itu.int> Hi, At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey conducted by ITU of Internet ISO 3166-based top level domains. The material is in in draft form and is made available in order to solicit public comment. Information includes all known URLs for registration. While every attempt has been made to ensure accuracy, the information cannot be considered authoritative as the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) is the authoritative source for ISO 3166-based top level domain delegation information. All raw data gathered has been and will continue to be provided to IANA. Comments and/or corrections on these pages should be sent to Ms. Asa Johansson at . Denominations and classifications employed in this publication do not imply any opinion on the part of the ITU concerning the legal or other status of any territory or any endorsement or acceptance of any boundary. Thanks, Robert -- Robert Shaw Advisor, Global Information Infrastructure International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland From JimFleming at unety.net Sat Jun 20 00:41:37 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:41:37 -0500 Subject: New TLDS for Old Administrators Message-ID: <01BD9BA9.83304940@webster.unir.net> John, How do feel about the proposal to allow ALL existing 2-letter TLD managers to select 3 additional generic TLDs to help increase the number of TLDs ? Switzerland (.CH) and CORE could team up... Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From JimFleming at unety.net Fri Jun 19 18:57:14 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 11:57:14 -0500 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <01BD9B79.66F014C0@webster.unir.net> On Friday, June 19, 1998 10:55 AM, Robert Shaw[SMTP:robert.shaw at itu.int] wrote: @Hi, @ @At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey Robert, With so many 2-letter TLDs being operated by people with an exclusive personal interest and little or no association to a country, how do you see the future position of the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE evolving with respect to those TLDs ? In other words, why are those TLDs exempt from the "exclusive is bad" model that you promote ? Do you think the new IANA will bring all of the 2-letter TLDs into conformance with the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE model ? Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From JimFleming at unety.net Sat Jun 20 00:26:51 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:26:51 -0500 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <01BD9BA7.72D446C0@webster.unir.net> On Friday, June 19, 1998 1:40 PM, John Charles Broomfield[SMTP:jbroom at manta.outremer.com] wrote: @ @I'm not sure where you live (is it Illinois or USVI), but if you feel that @*you* have a problem with the USVI, try and get some USVI governmental @institutions involved if you can't seem to get the current management of the @TLD to listen to you... @ John, I am really shocked that you did NOT recommend that we take this up with the IANA. What good does it do to talk to the governments ? As you recently posted, TLDs are given to the first person that knocks on IANA's door. The government probably does not have a clue or care what is going on. The IANA holds all the cards... Again...I am shocked that you did not point this out... Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From jbroom at manta.outremer.com Fri Jun 19 21:26:36 1998 From: jbroom at manta.outremer.com (John Charles Broomfield) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:26:36 -0400 (AST) Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey In-Reply-To: <01BD9B79.66F014C0@webster.unir.net> from "Jim Fleming" at Jun 19, 98 11:57:14 am Message-ID: <199806191926.PAA05675@manta.outremer.com> Hi Jim, As far as I'm concerned and WRT TLDs, the "exclusive is bad" applies ALWAYS. Having an individual UNILATERALLY and with no consensus decide how things are to be done is bad always. In the case of country code TLDs, the population that is going to get the service is pretty obvious; in general it will be those companies/organisations/individuals located in that specific geographical area, and what is important is to try and make sure that it is that population that is -in general- happy at the way things are run in that TLD. All lovely words of course, but lets see where the problems are... It is generally accepted that how a certain ccTLD is governed is a question to be answered by the government in place in that place. And whether you like it or not, it is ALWAYS the local government that is allowing that TLD to be governed in that way. They do it by either actively participating, by just letting things happen, or simply by not bothering to intervene. They ARE responsible for it though (another thing is arguing about dereliction (sp?) of duty... and personally I think ".us" would be a prime candidate). Nominet (for ".uk") is generally taken as an example of how to do things. However, much as you dislike the way a certain ccTLD is run, if it is not for your government, the only way to change it is to get THAT government to change it. It's not a question of "can they or can't they?" but rather "will they or won't they?" The fact that countries with flawed corrupt and non-democratic governments are part of the U.N. doesn't mean that the U.N. is flawed, corrupt and non-democratic. Those countries are not shaming the U.N. in any case, they are shaming themselves. However, trying to enter into how a foreign government applies its laws (or lack of them) and/or how it runs its ccTLD is naive at least. Yours, John Broomfield. P.S. Before you attack me for "exclusive control of ccTLDs", you know very well that we operate with full consensus of the local ISPs, and we are forming a (very small) non-profit which will operate (albeit in a much reduced fashion) to some extent a-la-Nominet. In any case, glad you can get some good discussions going every now and then. You had me worried... Even so, I'm sure you knew the answers already. > On Friday, June 19, 1998 10:55 AM, Robert Shaw[SMTP:robert.shaw at itu.int] wrote: > @Hi, > @ > @At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey > > Robert, > > With so many 2-letter TLDs being operated by people with an exclusive > personal interest and little or no association to a country, how do you > see the future position of the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE evolving > with respect to those TLDs ? > > In other words, why are those TLDs exempt from the "exclusive is bad" > model that you promote ? > > Do you think the new IANA will bring all of the 2-letter TLDs into conformance > with the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE model ? > > > Jim Fleming > Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com > 1998 - The Year of the C+@ > From jbroom at manta.outremer.com Sat Jun 20 00:40:31 1998 From: jbroom at manta.outremer.com (John Charles Broomfield) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:40:31 -0400 (AST) Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey In-Reply-To: <01BD9BA5.2BC3C000@webster.unir.net> from "Jim Fleming" at Jun 19, 98 05:10:32 pm Message-ID: <199806192240.SAA11627@manta.outremer.com> > On Friday, June 19, 1998 1:07 PM, John Charles Broomfield[SMTP:jbroom at manta.outremer.com] wrote: > > @I am however convinced that a mismanaged ccTLD for a country that has a fair > @government will not remain mismanaged indefinitely, but will transform into > @a fairer system basically because of user-presure, so as more of the planet > @becomes internet-aware, more fairer the ccTLD management is going to be. I > @also think that it will generally go along the lines of nominet. > @ > > Let's get down to specifics. How about something closer to home? > > Look at the .VI TLD in the U.S. Virgin Islands. > > How do you feel it is being managed ? Hi Jim, Why do you ask me? -I'm not a U.S. citizen. -I don't live in the U.S. V.I. -I don't have any business or customers there. -I have nothing to do at all with the US V.I. (AFAIK) -I have no idea with how it is managed, nor any interest in finding out to be honest... Yeah, it's geographically "close" to where I live (Guadeloupe), but in this day and age, the whole world is close. I'm not sure where you live (is it Illinois or USVI), but if you feel that *you* have a problem with the USVI, try and get some USVI governmental institutions involved if you can't seem to get the current management of the TLD to listen to you... In other words, I feel that the way the USVI manages its TLD is non of my business. Yours, John. From JimFleming at unety.net Sat Jun 20 00:10:32 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:10:32 -0500 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <01BD9BA5.2BC3C000@webster.unir.net> On Friday, June 19, 1998 1:07 PM, John Charles Broomfield[SMTP:jbroom at manta.outremer.com] wrote: @I am however convinced that a mismanaged ccTLD for a country that has a fair @government will not remain mismanaged indefinitely, but will transform into @a fairer system basically because of user-presure, so as more of the planet @becomes internet-aware, more fairer the ccTLD management is going to be. I @also think that it will generally go along the lines of nominet. @ Let's get down to specifics. How about something closer to home? Look at the .VI TLD in the U.S. Virgin Islands. How do you feel it is being managed ? Do you think that RFC 1591 rules govern the .VI TLD ? @@@@ http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/rfc1591.txt "The key requirement is that for each domain there be a designated manager for supervising that domain's name space." ... "The manager must, of course, be on the Internet." ... "The designated manager must be equitable to all groups in the domain that request domain names. This means that the same rules are applied to all requests, all requests must be processed in a non-discriminatory fashion, and academic and commercial (and other) users are treated on an equal basis. No bias shall be shown regarding requests that may come from customers of some other business related to the manager -- e.g., no preferential service for customers of a particular data network provider. There can be no requirement that a particular mail system (or other application), protocol, or product be used." @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From jbroom at manta.outremer.com Sat Jun 20 00:07:54 1998 From: jbroom at manta.outremer.com (John Charles Broomfield) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:07:54 -0400 (AST) Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey In-Reply-To: <01BD9B8E.7F849AA0@webster.unir.net> from "Jim Fleming" at Jun 19, 98 02:28:15 pm Message-ID: <199806192207.SAA10897@manta.outremer.com> > @Hi Jim, > @ As far as I'm concerned and WRT TLDs, the "exclusive is bad" applies > @ALWAYS. Having an individual UNILATERALLY and with no consensus decide how > @things are to be done is bad always. > > I agree... (SPAM about IPv8 deleted) Careful Jim, you're losing it again... > I am not sure it is fair to create something and then assume > that a country has to step forward to manage it and if they > do not that it is "OK" for someone else to exploit it. I really fail to see problems where you see them. The policy (despite what you may wish to disagree) has been that ISO-3166 2 letter codes are used in the IANA name space. The way to get them up and running is that any contact that comes from a given country asking for management of that code is considered to be the best authority until someone better comes along. I can't understand what you find wrong with this. IANA is not in the business to go around jet-setting from country to country to see who should or not manage a certain domain (and that would be interfering anyway). Let's look at it from the IANA perspective for a moment. Theres this country called Newby-newby-land which has never got in touch with you, so you have no contact with it either. Suddenly a person who resides there asks to manage the ".nn" tld becuse that's the corresponding code in ISO-3166. IANA can't really refuse, because if anyone is in a position to decide over something about "Newby-newby-land", and the choice is either IANA or a resident of Newby-newby-land, then it's obvious to me that it's the latter... If a couple of days later, someone from the ministry of Duck-raising of Newby-newby land turns up and asks for management of the TLD, then the question of who is in the position of deciding something about that country has two choices, either the resident or the ministry, and I also think it's obvious that its the ministry... Of course you can set up hypothetical questions like "What if the ministry of transport says A and the ministry of education says B?", or "What if there is a civil war and two different parties are declaring themselves as the legitimate government". These questions are like arguing about the sex of angels... > Also, > what about 2-letter TLDs that do not seem to have a country ? > > .IO comes to mind. Are all of the fish in the Indian Ocean > responsible ?...even if they do not use the Internet... I find it VERY hard to believe that *you* think that ".IO" stands for Indian Ocean. For general information, ".IO" as taken from the ISO-3166 list stands for British Indian Ocean Territory . There are quite a few small inhabited islands out there. I may well be wrong, but I would imagine that they ultimately come under UK sovereignty (corrections accepted), so there's your government. You talk about these cases in plural, so what other examples do you have? Why are you trying to mislead, Jim? (silly question). > @Nominet (for ".uk") is generally taken as an example of how to do things. > @However, much as you dislike the way a certain ccTLD is run, if it is not > @for your government, the only way to change it is to get THAT government to > @change it. It's not a question of "can they or can't they?" but rather "will > @they or won't they?" > > What percentage of 2-letter TLDs actually have active government involvement ? Ah, the word "active" comes in there... To be honest, I would imagine that those countries that are actually active are more than anything "screwing up" that particular TLD (but that's a personal opinion). The UK government is not actively involved, but is aware of Nominet. > Do you consider the .US TLD under U.S. Government control ? You yourself and so many others on this list certainly do, because you have always argued that IANA is under USG control... Yes, I consider ".US" to be under USG authority. The fact that the whitehouse has not yet stepped in to take over control of it doesn't mean that it's not under their authority. In fact, if there is any authority at all in the WP it's when they say that the ".US" situation should be worked on. > @The fact that countries with flawed corrupt and non-democratic governments > @are part of the U.N. doesn't mean that the U.N. is flawed, corrupt and > @non-democratic. Those countries are not shaming the U.N. in any case, they > @are shaming themselves. > @However, trying to enter into how a foreign government applies its laws (or > @lack of them) and/or how it runs its ccTLD is naive at least. > > It sounds to me like you are saying that there will never be any consistency > in the 2-letter TLDs. Oh, I'm well convinced that there will never be across the board consistency in the ccTLDs. Some will be managed in a fair way, and others will be managed in a completely unfair way, however this is just a reflection of how the world is, and it's seen from MY point of view. I view countries that are not under democratic rule to be "unfair" countries, however many who live there are perfectly happy. In some countries even today women do not have voting rights... Those in those countries will probably argue that I am living in sin or in corruption or... > If this is the case, then I suspect that we will have more > people flocking to the new generic TLDs because it will be likely they can > not trust their local government. In some cases, some of the 2-letter TLDs > may disappear from lack of support or usage. Not really... Probably those who live in countries where they can't trust their local government are going to be mandated by that government to follow the local policies. Those living in countries where things are well managed and/or in a fair way are going to continue to use the ccTLDs. If a ccTLD is mismanaged, it does create a certain amount of new registrations to go to the gTLDs, but those domains already registered don't pick up and leave (it's the lock-in dilema that many have argued for a long time, but that others fail to acknowledge the existance of). I am however convinced that a mismanaged ccTLD for a country that has a fair government will not remain mismanaged indefinitely, but will transform into a fairer system basically because of user-presure, so as more of the planet becomes internet-aware, more fairer the ccTLD management is going to be. I also think that it will generally go along the lines of nominet. Yours, John Broomfield. From william at tjns.tj Sat Jun 20 01:03:34 1998 From: william at tjns.tj (william at tjns.tj) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 16:03:34 -0700 Subject: Yet more FlemSpam Re: New TLDS for Old Administrators In-Reply-To: <01BD9BA9.83304940@webster.unir.net> Message-ID: From: Jim Fleming To: "'John Charles Broomfield'" Copies to: "apcctld-discussion at apng.org" , "dns-wg at ripe.net" , "DOMAIN-POLICY at LISTS.INTERNIC.NET" , "gtld-discuss at gtld-mou.org" , "pab at gtld-mou.org" Subject: New TLDS for Old Administrators Date sent: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 17:41:37 -0500 You continue to discuss some mysterious plan to allow this, but NO record of such a proposal being considered by ANY of those involved in this process seems to exist. How do you feel, Jim, about people who continue to provide intentionally misleading and many times down and out right incorrect information in order to try and give themselves and their own proposals more credibility? --William > > John, > > How do feel about the proposal to allow ALL existing > 2-letter TLD managers to select 3 additional generic > TLDs to help increase the number of TLDs ? > > Switzerland (.CH) and CORE could team up... > > > Jim Fleming > Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com > 1998 - The Year of the C+@ > -- William X. Walsh, Director, Network Operations TJ Network Services william at tjns.tj http://www.tjns.tj Domain Name Services at http://www.fastnames.tj Email Services coming soon! From JimFleming at unety.net Fri Jun 19 21:28:15 1998 From: JimFleming at unety.net (Jim Fleming) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:28:15 -0500 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <01BD9B8E.7F849AA0@webster.unir.net> On Friday, June 19, 1998 10:26 AM, John Charles Broomfield[SMTP:jbroom at manta.outremer.com] wrote: @ @Hi Jim, @ @ As far as I'm concerned and WRT TLDs, the "exclusive is bad" applies @ALWAYS. Having an individual UNILATERALLY and with no consensus decide how @things are to be done is bad always. I agree...in the IPv8 Plan there are 8 people that "govern" a TLD in a 2+2+4 Trusteeship. I will be submitting more details on the IPv8 Plan to the list. @ In the case of country code TLDs, the population that is going to @get the service is pretty obvious; in general it will be those @companies/organisations/individuals located in that specific geographical @area, and what is important is to try and make sure that it is that @population that is -in general- happy at the way things are run in that TLD. @All lovely words of course, but lets see where the problems are... @It is generally accepted that how a certain ccTLD is governed is a question @to be answered by the government in place in that place. And whether you @like it or not, it is ALWAYS the local government that is allowing that TLD @to be governed in that way. They do it by either actively participating, by @just letting things happen, or simply by not bothering to intervene. They @ARE responsible for it though (another thing is arguing about dereliction @(sp?) of duty... and personally I think ".us" would be a prime candidate). I am not sure it is fair to create something and then assume that a country has to step forward to manage it and if they do not that it is "OK" for someone else to exploit it. Also, what about 2-letter TLDs that do not seem to have a country ? .IO comes to mind. Are all of the fish in the Indian Ocean responsible ?...even if they do not use the Internet... @Nominet (for ".uk") is generally taken as an example of how to do things. @However, much as you dislike the way a certain ccTLD is run, if it is not @for your government, the only way to change it is to get THAT government to @change it. It's not a question of "can they or can't they?" but rather "will @they or won't they?" What percentage of 2-letter TLDs actually have active government involvement ? Do you consider the .US TLD under U.S. Government control ? @The fact that countries with flawed corrupt and non-democratic governments @are part of the U.N. doesn't mean that the U.N. is flawed, corrupt and @non-democratic. Those countries are not shaming the U.N. in any case, they @are shaming themselves. @However, trying to enter into how a foreign government applies its laws (or @lack of them) and/or how it runs its ccTLD is naive at least. It sounds to me like you are saying that there will never be any consistency in the 2-letter TLDs. If this is the case, then I suspect that we will have more people flocking to the new generic TLDs because it will be likely they can not trust their local government. In some cases, some of the 2-letter TLDs may disappear from lack of support or usage. @Yours, John Broomfield. @ @P.S. Before you attack me for "exclusive control of ccTLDs", you know very @well that we operate with full consensus of the local ISPs, and we are @forming a (very small) non-profit which will operate (albeit in a much @reduced fashion) to some extent a-la-Nominet. Sounds like a winner...keep up the good work... @ In any case, glad you can get some good discussions going every now @and then. You had me worried... Even so, I'm sure you knew the answers already. @ I asked Robert Shaw...and you answered... ...so I still do not know Robert Shaw's answers... @> On Friday, June 19, 1998 10:55 AM, Robert Shaw[SMTP:robert.shaw at itu.int] wrote: @> @Hi, @> @ @> @At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey @> @> Robert, @> @> With so many 2-letter TLDs being operated by people with an exclusive @> personal interest and little or no association to a country, how do you @> see the future position of the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE evolving @> with respect to those TLDs ? @> @> In other words, why are those TLDs exempt from the "exclusive is bad" @> model that you promote ? @> @> Do you think the new IANA will bring all of the 2-letter TLDs into conformance @> with the ITU/ISOC/IAHC/PAB/POC/CORE model ? @> Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.com 1998 - The Year of the C+@ From randy at psg.com Mon Jun 22 15:15:00 1998 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 98 06:15 PDT Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey References: <358A89E6.F130E593@itu.int> Message-ID: > At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey > conducted by ITU of Internet ISO 3166-based top level domains. This seems to be the whois data frozen in immutable form. Though it seems to also have a URL if the form is available online. Freezing the data in immutable form seems counterproductive and somewhat dangerous. Please clarify the benefits/goals here. randy From Robert.Shaw at itu.int Mon Jun 22 16:21:46 1998 From: Robert.Shaw at itu.int (Shaw, Robert) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:21:46 +0200 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <0A8E5F753DE1D111AEF40000778BB7A2411EBB@mailsrv1.itu.ch> > > At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey > > conducted by ITU of Internet ISO 3166-based top level domains. > > This seems to be the whois data frozen in immutable form. > Though it seems to also have a URL if the form is available online. > > Freezing the data in immutable form seems counterproductive > and somewhat dangerous. Please clarify the benefits/goals here. Well, it started like this... The ITU gets a request about once a week along the lines "where is the NIC for so and so". We had no place to point them to as the whois data didn't have this. So I asked one of my assistants to collect this information by contacting the listings in the whois database and we'd make this information publicly available. When she started, she discovered that the whois data is often out of date - she found that about 50% of the whois records are wrong in some form (listing people who had died, left companies several years ago, invalid email addresses/telephone/fax numbers, etc...). So I told her to try to carefully collect this information and then we'd ship it off the database to IANA and hopefully get things up-to-date (which we've done). The web pages are auto-generated from this database. There's more in the database which we will slowly move out into the html pages (e.g., today, country names in three languages were added, later we'll add who is sovereign over various small territories). As soon as the authoritative data really is, we'll just point to that, and just list the extra info we've collected. Robert -- Robert Shaw Advisor, Global Information Infrastructure International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland From Robert.Shaw at itu.int Mon Jun 22 16:21:46 1998 From: Robert.Shaw at itu.int (Shaw, Robert) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 16:21:46 +0200 Subject: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey Message-ID: <0A8E5F753DE1D111AEF40000778BB7A2411EBB@mailsrv1.itu.ch> > > At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey > > conducted by ITU of Internet ISO 3166-based top level domains. > > This seems to be the whois data frozen in immutable form. > Though it seems to also have a URL if the form is available online. > > Freezing the data in immutable form seems counterproductive > and somewhat dangerous. Please clarify the benefits/goals here. Well, it started like this... The ITU gets a request about once a week along the lines "where is the NIC for so and so". We had no place to point them to as the whois data didn't have this. So I asked one of my assistants to collect this information by contacting the listings in the whois database and we'd make this information publicly available. When she started, she discovered that the whois data is often out of date - she found that about 50% of the whois records are wrong in some form (listing people who had died, left companies several years ago, invalid email addresses/telephone/fax numbers, etc...). So I told her to try to carefully collect this information and then we'd ship it off the database to IANA and hopefully get things up-to-date (which we've done). The web pages are auto-generated from this database. There's more in the database which we will slowly move out into the html pages (e.g., today, country names in three languages were added, later we'll add who is sovereign over various small territories). As soon as the authoritative data really is, we'll just point to that, and just list the extra info we've collected. Robert -- Robert Shaw Advisor, Global Information Infrastructure International Telecommunication Union Place des Nations, 1211 Geneva, Switzerland From sam at dfa.org.uk Mon Jun 22 21:46:33 1998 From: sam at dfa.org.uk (Sam J. H. Hamilton) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:46:33 +0100 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <000301bd9e19$a58a09a0$ab0893c3@hamil> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at wtv.net Tue Jun 23 16:13:07 1998 From: bob at wtv.net (Bob Allisat) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:13:07 +0200 Subject: ITU cannot be considered authoritative (was_Re: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey) In-Reply-To: <358A89E6.F130E593@itu.int> Message-ID: Robert Shaw wrote: > At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey > conducted by ITU of Internet ISO 3166-based top level domains. The > material is in in draft form and is made available in order to solicit > public comment. Information includes all known URLs for registration. > While every attempt has been made to ensure accuracy, the information > cannot be considered authoritative as the Internet Assigned Numbers > Authority (IANA) is the authoritative source for ISO 3166-based > top level domain delegation information. All raw data gathered has > been and will continue to be provided to IANA. > > Comments and/or corrections on these pages should be sent to > Ms. Asa Johansson at . Why did the ITU do this research if IANA, is clearly "authoritative"? You'd think ITU has quite enough to do managing normal telephone issues without also taking on the role of Research department for the Internet. Unless all those telcos behind ITU have finally realized they are about to be obsoleted and/or bankrupted by the once obscure internet? And are scrambling to gain a foothold and eventual control over the net to save their power/profits? Maybe a better expenditure of ITU's vast resources would be to study why half of humanity hasn't even used a telephone let alone had one. They might find that sad situation has something to do with the monopoly vise grip these same telcos have held on telephony all these years. A grip that may well be lost with the incursion of free competition from the upstart and soon-to-be obequitous Internet. As in Internet telephony already taking a nice chunk out of all those massive Bell type corporations' nice black ink profits. Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network bob at wtv.net - (416) 534-1999 - http://www.wtv.net Free Community Network - .FCN free TLD Registry - http://fcn.net From bob at wtv.net Tue Jun 23 16:13:07 1998 From: bob at wtv.net (Bob Allisat) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:13:07 +0200 Subject: ITU cannot be considered authoritative (was_Re: ISO 3166-based Top Level Domain Survey) In-Reply-To: <358A89E6.F130E593@itu.int> Message-ID: Robert Shaw wrote: > At http://www.itu.int/net/cctlds/nics.htm is a preliminary survey > conducted by ITU of Internet ISO 3166-based top level domains. The > material is in in draft form and is made available in order to solicit > public comment. Information includes all known URLs for registration. > While every attempt has been made to ensure accuracy, the information > cannot be considered authoritative as the Internet Assigned Numbers > Authority (IANA) is the authoritative source for ISO 3166-based > top level domain delegation information. All raw data gathered has > been and will continue to be provided to IANA. > > Comments and/or corrections on these pages should be sent to > Ms. Asa Johansson at . Why did the ITU do this research if IANA, is clearly "authoritative"? You'd think ITU has quite enough to do managing normal telephone issues without also taking on the role of Research department for the Internet. Unless all those telcos behind ITU have finally realized they are about to be obsoleted and/or bankrupted by the once obscure internet? And are scrambling to gain a foothold and eventual control over the net to save their power/profits? Maybe a better expenditure of ITU's vast resources would be to study why half of humanity hasn't even used a telephone let alone had one. They might find that sad situation has something to do with the monopoly vise grip these same telcos have held on telephony all these years. A grip that may well be lost with the incursion of free competition from the upstart and soon-to-be obequitous Internet. As in Internet telephony already taking a nice chunk out of all those massive Bell type corporations' nice black ink profits. Bob Allisat Director, World TeleVirtual Network bob at wtv.net - (416) 534-1999 - http://www.wtv.net Free Community Network - .FCN free TLD Registry - http://fcn.net