ripe23-dns draft minutes
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Antonio_Blasco Bonito
bonito at nis.garr.it
Wed Mar 20 10:41:12 CET 1996
Quoting from Antonio_Blasco Bonito's message: > > Hi folks, > > here are (thanks Carol!) the draft minutes of the last DNS working group. > You are encouraged in reading and reporting about any wrong or missing part. > Please do that before friday march 5th. I will then finalize the minutes. No answer received. Then this version is the final one. Blasco > > ---------- ---------- > Antonio-Blasco Bonito E-Mail: bonito at nis.garr.it > GARR - Network Information Service c=it;a=garr;p=garr;o=nis;s=bonito > c/o CNUCE - Istituto del CNR Tel: +39 50 593246 > Via S. Maria, 36 Fax: +39 50 904052 > I-56126 PISA Telex: 500371 CNUCE I > Italy Url: http://www.nis.garr.it/nis/staff/bonito.html > ---------- ---------- > > ======================================================================= > DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT > > RIPE-23 dns-wg Meeting > > Monday, January 29, 1996 > 14.00 - 16:15 > > Chair: Antonio-Blasco Bonito > Scribe: Carol Orange > > Attended by 93 people (see below for the list) > > Agenda > ------ > > 1. Scribe > > 2. WG-agenda bashing > > 3. DNS Working Group chair needed > > 4. Status of 'in-addr.arpa' automatic checking and delegation > > 5. Status of the BIND software > > 6. Report of problems experienced > > 7. Report on European TLDs administrator's questionnaire > > 8. Delegation of International TLDs (Randy Bush) > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > 1. Scribe > > Carol Orange took notes. > > > 2. Agenda > > The agenda was agreed to without changes. > > > 3. DNS Working Group Chair > > Rob Blokzijl: > > + announced that the former DNS-WG chair (Leonid A. Yegoshin) had > to resign due to a change in both job and residence. > > + invited people to suggest candidates for the DNS working group > chair. > > Hopefully a new chair will be appointed during the next RIPE meeting. > > > 4. Status of 'in-addr.arpa' automatic checking and delegation > > David Kessens gave an update on the tool he created for > 'in-addr.arpa' automatic checking and delegation. His report > included the following information: > > To use the tool, one must: > + submit the appropriate RIPE database template > (inetnum or domain). > + send the template to <auto-inaddr at ripe.net>. > The tool will: > + check the setup of the primary and secondary name servers. > + if no errors are detected, > forward request to human operator for final approval. > + report back to user. > The tool will *not*: > + check the relative location of servers. > + check whether the corresponding address space is allocated > or assigned. > + check whether /24's which fall under a /16 to be delegated, > have been delegated. > > The latest version has several software improvements including: > + a standardised output transaction format. > + tools for RIPE support staff to check what the tool does not > check (see above). > + a number of bug fixes. > > Currently under development: > + a tool to automatically update RIPE NCC zone files after > human approval. > > Plans to integrate the tool in RIPE database will mean: > + requests should be submitted to database with keyword. > + the RIPE database authentication mechanism will be used > to validate requests. > > The tool is available in: > + ftp://ftp.ripe.net/tools/inaddrcheck-960110.tar.gz > > Following David's report, the following discussion ensued. > > Documentation about reverse delegation procedures was requested. > David replied that the necessary information will be provided > in ripe-104++. > > Whether the automated mechanisms for inverse delegations > will work with IPv6 came up. There was some discussion as to > whether this is important given the slow progress of IPv6. However > it was also mentioned that as test beds are becoming operational, > these and other tools will be needed to support them. It is > expected that at most minor modifications to these mechanisms > will be required for use with IPv6. > > Randy Bush raised the issue of data integrity of DNS, and asked > whether steps are being taken to prevent corruption of the > inaddr.arpa name space delegated in Europe. After some discussion > on this topic, Randy said he has some tools available for > inspecting the integrity of DNS name space. Those interested > are welcome to contact him. > > This was followed by a discussion of how lame delegations come > into being and why they need to be cleaned up. It was pointed out > that the number of bad entries in the inaddr.arpa name space will > increase as renumbering goes in to effect. It was also mentioned > that currently the integrity of the European inaddr.arpa name > space data is quite good. > > > 5. Status of the BIND software > > Blasco Bonito announced that a the final version of Bind 4.9.3 has been > released. > > Geert Jan de Groot recommended using the "no recursion" option > available in version 4.9.3 to prevent data pollution, and to control > data sizes. This is useful if resources are limited. > > ** Action: Geert Jan offered to write up recommendations for managing > large databases. > > Finally, Randy Bush reported that a new version of TGV is available > for VMS users. Their new release contains, among much other stuff, > a modern version of BIND with all the recent improvements > (performance, security, etc). Folks should be strongly encouraged > to upgrade. By the way, TGV was recently bought by cisco. > > > 6. Report of problems experienced > > There have been some problems with the delegation of TLD names > under non TLD domains. For example, someone recently delegated > the name sgi.net.co.uk. The result is that sgi.com couldn't be > resolved anymore when using some old resolvers. As a large number > of similar names were generated, the DNS name space became > severely polluted, and it took two days to clear it up. > > According to Geert Jan, the problem is caused in part by old > bind software, which in accordance with RFC1535 should no longer > be used, but in practice is. > > Guy Davis says that in the UK, delegation of top level domain names > under TLD's (e.g. net.uk) will no longer be permitted. > > It was reported that this is already the case in other countries > (i.e. Germany, Italy, ...) and that DNS second level administrators > are also discouraged from allowing top level domain names to be used. > > There was some discussion as to whether the problem should be > solved by getting administrators to replace old resolver software > or by getting them to abstain from delegating TLD names. In the > end, there was consensus that the problem should be tackled as > a combined effort. > > It was mentioned again that the security issues are discussed in > RFC-1535 and that DNS administrators should be reminded to review > that document carefully. > > 7. Report on European TLDs administrator's questionnaire > > Guy Davis reported on a questionnaire he sent out to European TLD > administrators. The questionnaire was designed to determine the > policies used in DNS delegations by the TLD administrators. A > summary of the report he presented follows. Anyone interested in > the full set of information gathered can send a request to > <guyd at pipex.net>. > > > DNS TLD - Questionnaire > > - 22 response for 24 top level domains > - Full set of answers available on request > > email: guyd at pipex.net > > EDITED HIGHLIGHTS > > 1. Who defines your policies? > Org Running TLD - 15 1/2 > The Government - 1 1/2 > ISPs by consensus - 4 > > 2. How do you establish your policies? > By Working Group - 2 > Told by Govt. - 1 1/2 > Decided by Org Running TLD - 7 1/2 > ISPs by Concencus - 10 > > 3. What Legal Status do your decisions/policies have? > None - 19 1/2 > As defined by Govt. - 1 1/2 > > 4a Public Subdomains? > Yes - 7 > No - 15 > > b Geographic Subdomains? > Yes - 6 > No - 16 > > c 2nd level categories (private & public) in parallel? > Yes - 6 > No - 16 > > d If you have public subdomains must everybodies request be accepted? > Yes - 7 > N/A - 15 > > e How would you split your TLD > See full listing - 6 > N/A - 16 > > 5a Sub. TLD? > Yes - 20 > No -2 > > b Sub. public TLD? > Yes - 7 > No - 15 > > 6a Who can obtain domains? > Anyone - 11 > Just Orgs - 11 > > 8 Must the requester be local? > Yes - 16 > No - 6 > > 9a More than one domain per Org. ? > Yes - 12 > No - 10 > > 17a Do you charge ? > Yes - 5 > No - 16 > > 19 Are you likely to change the system within 12 months? > Yes - 14 > No - 5 > Don't know - 3 > > 22 Do you use automation? > Yes - 11 > No - 11 > > After Guy's presentation of the above data, a discussion started > regarding the charging fees and schedules. Most TLD administrators > presently don't charge, but are thinking about doing so to cover > their costs. Among those who do charge, some have only a one time > fee, and some have a yearly administration fee. > > There does not appear to be competition among the national TLD > administrators. Moreover, running a TLD is primarily performed as > a nonprofit service to the Internet community. > > Blasco suggested a need for better coordination among TLD > administrators, so they can consult one another on technical and > policy matters. It was pointed out that this does not mean they > will all follow the same policy. > > The question was raised as to whether some private forum for > communication among TLD administrators should be created, so they > can exchange information easily. > > Whether or not 2nd level domain administrators might be included in > the "private" communication was considered. > > ** Action: Daniel offered that the RIPE NCC will set up a mailing list > for TLD administrators. > > A need was also expressed that the policies of TLD administrators > be made public. > > ** Action: The RIPE NCC will incorporate a page where TLD policies > can be published at its WWW site. > > It was suggested the questionnaire be repeated in 6 months so that > changes in policy can be monitored. > > 8. Delegation of International TLDs (Randy Bush) > > Randy Bush explained that there is a lot of talk in the US at the > moment about whether and why new TLD's should be created. > International TLD's are com, org & net. The main reason for > expanding these is to create healthy competition in the market. > Also, the US government (NSF here) wants to be out of the IP and > DNS delegation business. > > Randy also presented a set of guidelines that should be used in > determining whether a new TLD can be created. > > There was some discussion as to whether or not names should be > used for profit. Also, whether a white pages service (which is what > DNS provides) is sufficient, or whether we should start looking > into yellow page models for directory services. > > Back to the name space: it is perceived that the US wants to > control the name space. Who gave them the right to edu, mil, and > gov? Basically, it was stated that the US came up with those names, > so they have a right to them. Still the process remains unclear. > > Piet Beertema said the US should use the extension "us" just as other > countries use country extensions. > > Randy then summarised the proposal they are submitting to slowly > expand the number of TLD's. The number of TLD's would be increased > at a rate of about 3-5 per year. Basically, anyone suggesting a new > domain should argue that it will serve some purpose that none of the > currently existing TLD's do, and agree that it will be managed > responsibly following the guidelines agreed to in RFC1591 (as well > as some new ones: nondiscrimination policies, appeals procedures, > etc.). > > Piet B. pointed out that those changes only generate a false sense > of order in the chaos. The new policies only apply to new TLD's, not > to the old ones. No similar restrictions are applied to second > level domain administrators. > > Mike Norris pointed out that DNS administration is experienced as a > public service in Europe. > > Randy said that "com" on the other hand is turning into a high > profit monopoly, and the new suggestions are intended to curb its power. > > A discussion surrounding the trademark wars surrounding domain names > started up. Should the names be delegated on a "first come, first > served" or should DNS administrators be required to control > trademarks. > > Back to the issue as to whether new TLD's should be created: > > It was suggested that whereas the US TLD's fall under ".", they > should be placed under "us" (e.g. com.us, mil.us, edu.us, etc). > In other words, the problems surrounding "name for profit" monopolies > are US based, and should be solved there. To clarify, this Randy asked > the audience whether they should be removed from the root. There was > general consesus about that. > > That was about it for the DNS working group. > > > Attendees list > -------------- > Antonio-Blasco Bonito GARR-NIS > Rob Blokzijl RIPE > Jiri Orsag Eunet CZ > Jan HrJonka -U- > Kurt Kayser ECRC > Marc Pichon TRANSPAC > Bernard Tuy CNRS / UREC > Arnold Nipper NIG/Xlink > Elise Gerich Merit > Havard Eidnes NORDUnet/Uninett > Alfons Friedl SERVICOM > Dirk Pantring DENIC > Sabine Dolderer DENIC > Guy Davies Unipalm PIPEX > Lars-Johan Liman Ebone NOC > Geert Jan de Groot RIPE NCC > Hans Petter Holen SCHIBSTED NETT AS > Ivan Sedinic HPT - Croatian Post and Teleco > Stephan Biesbroeck BELNET > Christophe Huygens Katholieke Universiteit Leuven > Sean Doran Sprint > Els Willems RIPE NCC > Randy Bush > Michel Colin Brussels University/Service Te > Steve Druck TERENA > Ariel T. Sobelman TERENA > Hatice Kuey RIPE NCC > John Crain RIPE NCC > Johannes 5 Joemann Object Factory GmbH > Oliver Mandischer Object Factory GmbH > ??? RENATER > Paul Rolland Oleane > Ireneusz Neska NASK > Simon Cavendish EuroNet Internet > Erwin Blekkenhorst EuroNet Internet > Astrid Nijenhuis EuroNet Internet > ??? A. Vrivine SKYWORLD > Ivan Communod FTNSNL > Alina Dodescu Research Institute for Informa > Jan-Pieter Cornet NL.XS4ALL > Erik Bos nl.xs4all > Cor Bosman XS4ALL > Kimmo Kosonen Telecom Finland > Jarmo Oksanen Telecom Finland > Willi Huber SWITCH > Per Mattsson Unisource Business Networks > Hakan Hansson Unisource Business Networks > Harm Werkman Unisource Business Networks NL > Geza Turchanyi INFO-C > Nick Shield UKERNA/JANET > Kevin Hoadley ULCC/JANET > Asquith Bonaparte JANET NOSC > Bettina Kauth DFN-NOC > Steven Bakker DANTE > Daniele Bovio America OnLine > Vaclav Novak CESNET > Tomas Marsalek GTS CzechCom > Juergen Rauschenbach DFN > Anne Lord PIPEX International > Stef Van Dessel INnet > Magnus Danielson KTH > Nigel Titley BTnet > Giovanni Armanino GARR-NIS > Piet Beertema CWI/NL TLD registry > Francis Dupont INRIA > Wilfried Woeber VUCC / ACOnet > Tibor Weis SANET - Slovakia > Barbara Dooley CIX > Frank Slyne Telecom Eireann > Oliver Smith Demon Internet > Cliff Stanford Demon Internet Limited > Dusan Keprta EuroTel Bratislava Ltd. > Pavel Mikus EuroTel Bratislava Ltd. > Oliver Doll EUnet Deutschland GmbH > Janos Zsako BankNet > Pulak Rakshit Cable Online > Javed Mirza Cable Online > Holger Weinhardt EUnet Deutschland GmbH > Balazs Martos HUNGARNET > Janos Bajza HUNGARNET > Ton Windgassen= IBM Global Network Europe= > Carol Orange RIPE NCC > Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC > Bill Cessna IBM Global Network > Matt Fakray IBM Global Network > Helena Svensson Tele2 / SWIPnet > Armando Domingues FCCN/RCCN > Graca Carvalho FCCN/RCCN > Miguel Sanz RedIRIS > Ruediger Volk Deutsche Telekom > Hans Frese DESY > Elisabetta Ghermandi I.N.F.N. - CNAF > Rushdul Mannan Xara Networks Ltd > > DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT-DRAFT > ======================================================================= > -- ---------- ---------- Antonio-Blasco Bonito E-Mail: bonito at nis.garr.it GARR - Network Information Service c=it;a=garr;p=garr;o=nis;s=bonito c/o CNUCE - Istituto del CNR Tel: +39 50 593246 Via S. Maria, 36 Fax: +39 50 904052 I-56126 PISA Telex: 500371 CNUCE I Italy Url: http://www.nis.garr.it/nis/staff/bonito.html ---------- ----------
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