From Pierre.Verbaeten at cs.kuleuven.ac.be Fri Jan 15 17:26:45 1993 From: Pierre.Verbaeten at cs.kuleuven.ac.be (Pierre Verbaeten) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 17:26:45 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament Message-ID: <9301151626.AA26222@twix.cs.kuleuven.ac.be> Hello, I received a request for a domain name from the European Parliament. They propose the name ep which is acceptable; I would like some advice on the most appropriate top level domain. I see 3 alternatives: 1. Creation of a new top level domain. They already proposed eur Considering the status of the European Community, such a request looks reasonable to me. Is the also acceptable? Better names? 2. Use an existing top level domain such as int (and join "nato" there). 3. Register ep under be (because the current connection is realized in Belgium). From a political point of view this is not a good solution. I would probably also imply that they will register also ep.fr ep.lu I suggest to discuss this in Praag. Regards, Pierre From Piet.Beertema at cwi.nl Fri Jan 15 17:43:37 1993 From: Piet.Beertema at cwi.nl (Piet Beertema) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1993 17:43:37 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 15 Jan 93 17:26:45 +0100 . <9301151626.AA26222@twix.cs.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <9301151643.AA07131.piet@kraai.cwi.nl> I received a request for a domain name from the European Parliament. They propose the name ep which is acceptable It may be acceptable now, but it may not be acceptable in the (near?) future. 2-letter domain names should always be discouraged as they may (now or later) coincide with top level domain names and when using them, abbreviated addressing (RFC822, 6.2.2), user at something.ep in this case, is forbidden. I'd suggest "epe" instead, doing right to the abbreviation of the name in both English and French order. I would like some advice on the most appropriate top level domain. I see 3 alternatives: 1. Creation of a new top level domain. They already proposed eur Considering the status of the European Community, such a request looks reasonable to me. Yet another non-standard (non-ISO3166) top level domain? Yech! Who is going to register it? Who is going to manage it? Who can register it? It's opening a can of worms... 2. Use an existing top level domain such as int (and join "nato" there). There are only 2 nameservers for .int and nato.int has suffered more than once from this. 3. Register ep under be (because the current connection is realized in Belgium). From a political point of view this is not a good solution. I would probably also imply that they will register also ep.fr ep.lu RARE has registered as rare.nl, so what the heck! Piet From bonito at nis.garr.it Fri Jan 15 18:29:16 1993 From: bonito at nis.garr.it (Antonio_Blasco Bonito) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 18:29:16 MET Subject: domain name for european parliament In-Reply-To: <9301151626.AA26222@twix.cs.kuleuven.ac.be>; from "Pierre Verbaeten" at Jan 15, 93 5:26 pm Message-ID: <9301151729.AA05843@jolly.nis.garr.it> > > Hello, > > I received a request for a domain name from the European Parliament. > They propose the name > ep > which is acceptable; I would like some advice on the most appropriate > top level domain. > I see 3 alternatives: > 1. Creation of a new top level domain. They already proposed > eur > Considering the status of the European Community, such a request > looks reasonable to me. > Is the also acceptable? Better names? > 2. Use an existing top level domain such as > int > (and join "nato" there). I think this is the most reasonable solution: the int domain was created having in mind this kind of issues. > 3. Register > ep > under be (because the current connection is realized in Belgium). > From a political point of view this is not a good solution. > I would probably also imply that they will register also > ep.fr > ep.lu > I suggest to discuss this in Praag. > Regards, > Pierre > > -- ---------- ---------- Antonio_Blasco Bonito E-Mail: bonito at nis.garr.it GARR - Network Information Service c=it;a=garr;p=garr;o=nis;s=bonito c/o CNUCE - Istituto del CNR Tel: +39 (50) 593246 Via S. Maria, 36 Telex: 500371 CNUCE I 56126 PISA Italy Fax: +39 (50) 589354 ---------- ---------- From bonito at nis.garr.it Fri Jan 15 18:33:41 1993 From: bonito at nis.garr.it (Antonio_Blasco Bonito) Date: Fri, 15 Jan 93 18:33:41 MET Subject: domain name for european parliament In-Reply-To: <9301151643.AA07131.piet@kraai.cwi.nl>; from "Piet Beertema" at Jan 15, 93 5:43 pm Message-ID: <9301151733.AA05856@jolly.nis.garr.it> > 2. Use an existing top level domain such as > int > (and join "nato" there). > There are only 2 nameservers for .int and nato.int has > suffered more than once from this. I think we could easily find other sites which can volunteer to provide more nameservers for .int domain. > > 3. Register > ep > under be (because the current connection is realized in Belgium). > From a political point of view this is not a good solution. > I would probably also imply that they will register also > ep.fr > ep.lu > RARE has registered as rare.nl, so what the heck! RARE offices are only in nl but this is not true for the european parliament ---------- ---------- Antonio_Blasco Bonito E-Mail: bonito at nis.garr.it GARR - Network Information Service c=it;a=garr;p=garr;o=nis;s=bonito c/o CNUCE - Istituto del CNR Tel: +39 (50) 593246 Via S. Maria, 36 Telex: 500371 CNUCE I 56126 PISA Italy Fax: +39 (50) 589354 ---------- ---------- From bonito at nis.garr.it Mon Jan 18 10:59:11 1993 From: bonito at nis.garr.it (Antonio_Blasco Bonito) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 10:59:11 MET Subject: secondary server needed Message-ID: <9301180959.AA10028@jolly.nis.garr.it> Hallo folks, I need to replace one of the secondary servers for reverse 131.114 PISA-NET Can you suggest me any good volunteer in Europe? Thanks in advance ---------- ---------- Antonio_Blasco Bonito E-Mail: bonito at nis.garr.it GARR - Network Information Service c=it;a=garr;p=garr;o=nis;s=bonito c/o CNUCE - Istituto del CNR Tel: +39 (50) 593246 Via S. Maria, 36 Telex: 500371 CNUCE I 56126 PISA Italy Fax: +39 (50) 589354 ---------- ---------- From Dave.Morton at ecrc.de Mon Jan 18 12:11:20 1993 From: Dave.Morton at ecrc.de (Dave Morton) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 12:11:20 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament Message-ID: <9301181111.AA12199@acrab25.ecrc> > I would like some advice on the most appropriate > top level domain. > I see 3 alternatives: > 1. Creation of a new top level domain. They already proposed > eur > Considering the status of the European Community, such a > request looks reasonable to me. >Yet another non-standard (non-ISO3166) top level domain? >Yech! Who is going to register it? Who is going to manage >it? Who can register it? It's opening a can of worms... If you think thats funny then check this one out: whois -h nic.ddn.mil "ec.org" Commission of the European Communities (EC1-DOM) Directorate-general Telecommunications, Information Industry and Innovation. Rue de la loi, 200 B-1049 Brussel, Belgium Domain Name: EC.ORG Administrative Contact: Mullender, Sape (SM3383) Mullender at cs.utwente.nl +31 53 89 3709 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Vogels, Werner (WV33) werner at inesc.pt +351 1 3100316 Record last updated on 20-Feb-92. Domain servers in listed order: FREYA.INESC.PT 146.193.4.36 HELIOS.CS.UTWENTE.NL 130.89.15.6 To see this host record with registered users, repeat the command with a star ('*') before the name; or, use '%' to show JUST the registered users. Yes - we told them it might not be a good idea in the long term but what can you do.... Dave From Piet.Beertema at cwi.nl Mon Jan 18 12:29:54 1993 From: Piet.Beertema at cwi.nl (Piet Beertema) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 12:29:54 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 18 Jan 93 12:11:20 +0100 . <9301181111.AA12199@acrab25.ecrc> Message-ID: <9301181129.AA10105.piet@kraai.cwi.nl> If you think thats funny then check this one out: whois -h nic.ddn.mil "ec.org" Commission of the European Communities (EC1-DOM) Directorate-general Telecommunications, Information Industry and Innovation. Rue de la loi, 200 B-1049 Brussel, Belgium Domain Name: EC.ORG Administrative Contact: Mullender, Sape (SM3383) Mullender at cs.utwente.nl +31 53 89 3709 Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Vogels, Werner (WV33) werner at inesc.pt +351 1 3100316 Record last updated on 20-Feb-92. Domain servers in listed order: FREYA.INESC.PT 146.193.4.36 HELIOS.CS.UTWENTE.NL 130.89.15.6 Yes - we told them it might not be a good idea in the long term but what can you do.... Not much. It's a bit surprising though that the NIC did accept this registration from people outside DG. And as far as the nameservers are concerned: ----146.193.4.36 PING Statistics---- 13 packets transmitted, 12 packets received, 7% packet loss round-trip (ms) min/avg/max = 1222/1690/3053 ----130.89.15.6 PING Statistics---- 82 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss ; <<>> DiG 2.0 <<>> @146.193.4.36 ec.org. soa ;; res_send to server 146.193.4.36: Connection timed out So not to be taken serious. Piet From Marten.Terpstra at ripe.net Mon Jan 18 12:28:15 1993 From: Marten.Terpstra at ripe.net (Marten Terpstra) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 12:28:15 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 18 Jan 93 12:11:20 +0100. <9301181111.AA12199@acrab25.ecrc> Message-ID: <9301181128.AA09746@ncc.ripe.net> Dave Morton writes: * If you think thats funny then check this one out: * * whois -h nic.ddn.mil "ec.org" * Commission of the European Communities (EC1-DOM) * Directorate-general Telecommunications, Information * Industry and Innovation. Rue de la loi, 200 * B-1049 Brussel, Belgium * * Domain Name: EC.ORG * * Administrative Contact: * Mullender, Sape (SM3383) Mullender at cs.utwente.nl * +31 53 89 3709 * Technical Contact, Zone Contact: * Vogels, Werner (WV33) werner at inesc.pt * +351 1 3100316 * * Record last updated on 20-Feb-92. * * Domain servers in listed order: * * FREYA.INESC.PT 146.193.4.36 * HELIOS.CS.UTWENTE.NL 130.89.15.6 Yes, and nicely implemented as well : [rijp-1634] host -lv ec.org Query about ec.org for record types A NS PTR Finding nameservers for ec.org ... Query done, 2 answers, status: no error Found 1 address for FREYA.INESC.PT Found 1 address for HELIOS.CS.UTWENTE.NL Trying server 146.193.4.36 (FREYA.INESC.PT) ... connect: Connection refused Trying server 130.89.15.6 (HELIOS.CS.UTWENTE.NL) ... connect: Connection timed out Nameserver not responding ec.org AXFR record not found, try again No nameservers for ec.org responded -Marten From werner at freya.inesc.pt Mon Jan 18 13:50:39 1993 From: werner at freya.inesc.pt (Werner Vogels) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 13:50:39 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Jan 93 12:48:11 PST." <9301182048.AA18258@spirou.puug.pt> Message-ID: <9301181250.AA08781@freya.inesc.pt> I have been passed on the following message and would like to comment on it: > Subject: Re: domain name for european parliament > > Cc: dns-wg at ripe.net, Pierre.Verbaeten at cs.kuleuven.ac.be > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 12:29:54 +0100 > From: Piet Beertema > > If you think thats funny then check this one out: > > whois -h nic.ddn.mil "ec.org" > Commission of the European Communities (EC1-DOM) > Directorate-general Telecommunications, Information > Industry and Innovation. Rue de la loi, 200 > B-1049 Brussel, Belgium > > Domain Name: EC.ORG > > Administrative Contact: > Mullender, Sape (SM3383) Mullender at cs.utwente.nl > +31 53 89 3709 > Technical Contact, Zone Contact: > Vogels, Werner (WV33) werner at inesc.pt > +351 1 3100316 > > Record last updated on 20-Feb-92. > > Domain servers in listed order: > > FREYA.INESC.PT 146.193.4.36 > HELIOS.CS.UTWENTE.NL 130.89.15.6 > > > Yes - we told them it might not be a good idea in the > long term but what can you do.... > > Not much. It's a bit surprising though that the NIC did > accept this registration from people outside DG. We have been funded by the CEC/BRA to set up an support infrastructure to help researchers in Europe exchange information and to supply support for issues like storage, naming, etc. The infrastructure is based on a large number of fileservers throughout Europe using AFS as main technology. Although in the startup phase aiming to support the nodes covered by the three first Networks Of Excellence: ELSNET, CaberNet and Compulog, the infrastructure is supposed to be the blueprint for an infrastructure also covering the new NOE's formed last year. In the framework of naming we wanted to enable resolution through the DNS. As there was no top domain available that would cover a general CEC organization, under which the infrastructure could be placed, we requested (with full knowledge and appreciation of DG) a domain name for a top domain ec.org. This domain was to be managed by the Infrastructure Task Force of the proposed infrastructure for a startup-period, after which the management of the top domain would be handed over to an institution selected by DG. The subdomains dedicated to the research infrastructure would still be managed by our own people. (Instead of calling it "funny", Dave, you could have explained all this as you are aware of most of the details of the infrastructure provision, including the naming part) > And as > far as the nameservers are concerned: ..... > So not to be taken serious. I do not think that is a remark to be made without any further consultation of the people involved. At the time of registration of the ec.org name, the machines to run the servers were not yet delivered. The two names were supplied to the NIC as being "temporary", to be replaced as soon as the initial part of the research infrastructure was in place. The first two servers (INESC and Univ. of Twente) are running now, while this week the servers at the Univ. of Newcastle and at LAAS will be added. Our first concern is to have the AFS servers properly running, after that the NIC will be informed about which machines will provide the DNS service. If there are any other areas related to the CEC that want to make use of the ec.org name they are happily invited to cooperate in managing a possible subdomain of ec.org. In our planning we aim to provide DNS service starting half of February. Hope this clears up the confusion. Werner Vogels Distributed Systems and Industrial Automation Group INESC - Instituto de Engenharia de Sistemas e Computadores Rua Alves Redol, 9-6o - 1000 Lisboa - Portugal Tel: +351 1 3100316, Fax: +351 1 525843, e-mail: werner at inesc.pt / C=pt;A= ;P=inesc;S=werner From Piet.Beertema at cwi.nl Mon Jan 18 14:09:41 1993 From: Piet.Beertema at cwi.nl (Piet Beertema) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 14:09:41 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 18 Jan 93 13:50:39 +0100 . <9301181250.AA08781@freya.inesc.pt> Message-ID: <9301181309.AA10363.piet@kraai.cwi.nl> > And as > far as the nameservers are concerned: ..... > So not to be taken serious. I do not think that is a remark to be made without any further consultation of the people involved. A domain established about ONE YEAR ago but without ANY reachable nameservers cannot be taken serious, with or without consulting anyone. At the time of registration of the ec.org name, the machines to run the servers were not yet delivered. The two names were supplied to the NIC as being "temporary", to be replaced as soon as the initial part of the research infrastructure was in place. The first two servers (INESC and Univ. of Twente) are running now It's what you call "running".... Piet From werner at freya.inesc.pt Mon Jan 18 14:32:25 1993 From: werner at freya.inesc.pt (Werner Vogels) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 14:32:25 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 18 Jan 93 14:09:41 +0100." <9301181309.AA10363.piet@kraai.cwi.nl> Message-ID: <9301181332.AA08861@freya.inesc.pt> > I do not think that is a remark to be made without any further > consultation of the people involved. > A domain established about ONE YEAR ago but without > ANY reachable nameservers cannot be taken serious, > with or without consulting anyone. The registration of the ec.org name was done before any machine or software were bought. Try to get several organizations in different Euopean contries under the umbrella of BRA in sync, so hardware can be bought, people allocated, software installed, etc, and you will find out that *one year* is nothing. Getting the name registered was part of a larger scheme of actions that were taken, we didn't want to wait until the last minute before requesting registration. It turned out that other factors in the scheme have taken much more time then expected, which caused a delay of more than half a year in getting the infrastructure operational, including the DNS. What I meant was that it would be very easy for you to either contact me or Sape so we could explain the situation, instead of assuming the domain could not be taken seriously. > At the time of registration of the ec.org name, the machines > to run the servers were not yet delivered. The two names were > supplied to the NIC as being "temporary", to be replaced as > soon as the initial part of the research infrastructure was > in place. The first two servers (INESC and Univ. of Twente) > are running now > It's what you call "running".... Probably didn't make it clear enough: 1. The names supplied to the NIC were for temporary use, neither of them has, or will in the future have, to do anything with ec.org or the NOE infrastructure. 2. The two servers running are *fileservers* not DNS servers. names: cabernet.inesc.pt and cabernet.cs.utwente.nl 3. The machines to run the DNS servers will be appointed in the first week of february, after which the ec.org domain will be operational. -- Werner From Dave.Morton at ecrc.de Mon Jan 18 15:09:39 1993 From: Dave.Morton at ecrc.de (Dave Morton) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 15:09:39 +0100 Subject: domain name for european parliament Message-ID: <9301181409.AA12285@acrab25.ecrc> >I have been passed on the following message and would like to comment >on it: > >> Yes - we told them it might not be a good idea in the >> long term but what can you do.... >> >> Not much. It's a bit surprising though that the NIC did >> accept this registration from people outside DG. > >We have been funded by the CEC/BRA to set up an support infrastructure >to help researchers in Europe exchange information and to supply >support for issues like storage, naming, etc. The infrastructure is based >on a large number of fileservers throughout Europe using AFS as main >technology. Although in the startup phase aiming to support the nodes >covered by the three first Networks Of Excellence: ELSNET, CaberNet and >Compulog, the infrastructure is supposed to be the blueprint for an >infrastructure also covering the new NOE's formed last year. > >In the framework of naming we wanted to enable resolution through >the DNS. As there was no top domain available that would cover a >general CEC organization, under which the infrastructure could be placed, >we requested (with full knowledge and appreciation of DG) a domain name >for a top domain ec.org. This domain was to be managed by the Infrastructure >Task Force of the proposed infrastructure for a startup-period, after >which the management of the top domain would be handed over to an >institution selected by DG. The subdomains dedicated to the research >infrastructure would still be managed by our own people. > >(Instead of calling it "funny", Dave, you could have explained all this >as you are aware of most of the details of the infrastructure provision, >including the naming part) Werner, yes - this is true I could have mentioned all the above at the risk of flooding the whole list. However you may have missed the original e-mail requesting guidance on the provision of a domain name for the Europen Parliment. What I mean by "funny" is (and I mentioned it to the NOEs when this suggestion of ec.org was made) that we would have multiple organisations connected in one way or another to the commission or the EC all seeking to register domain names in an uncoordinated way. At the time I suggested consulting the RIPE people for guidance but I think this didn't happen. As other more experienced DNSs have already mentioned there are many good reasons to think twice before registering any old name just because it might sound reasonable. And yes - I'm still not convinced registration under .org was a good choice. Perhaps I should have been more careful in my choice of words - it's not funny - it's a pity that it was not thought about a little more beforehand. >> And as >> far as the nameservers are concerned: > >..... > >> So not to be taken serious. > >I do not think that is a remark to be made without any further >consultation of the people involved. > >At the time of registration of the ec.org name, the machines to run the >servers were not yet delivered. The two names were supplied to the NIC >as being "temporary", to be replaced as soon as the initial part of the >research infrastructure was in place. The first two servers (INESC and >Univ. of Twente) are running now, while this week the servers at the >Univ. of Newcastle and at LAAS will be added. Our first concern is to >have the AFS servers properly running, after that the NIC will be informed >about which machines will provide the DNS service. It might also be a good idea to inform the RIPE NCC so that people in Europe also know what's going on. Dave From Francis.Dupont at inria.fr Thu Jan 21 11:08:05 1993 From: Francis.Dupont at inria.fr (Francis Dupont) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1993 11:08:05 +0100 Subject: RIPE 14 - WG meetings In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 15 Jan 1993 16:13:13 +0100. <9301151513.AA14736@nikhefh.nikhef.nl> Message-ID: <199301211008.AA01586@givry.inria.fr> Draft agenda for the meeting of the DNS WG at RIPE-14 in Prague : Old open items : - root servers in Europe - global DNS server coordination in Europe - cookbook, advices, horror stories, ... - DNS software (with known bugs) and tools Special items for RIPE-14 : - BIND 4.9 (a beta version is available) - (again) names for European organizations (European Parliament) - DNS for IPv7 (TUBA/SIP/PIP) Actions (from RIPE-13) : - cookbook on DNS : the "DNS and BIND" O'Reilly book is not yet available in Europe (but I am trying to get one for the meeting) then I propose to extend this action. Needed for this meeting : - a report about BIND 4.9 - input for DNS support for IPv7 Regards Francis.Dupont at inria.fr From Erik-Jan.Bos at SURFnet.nl Thu Jan 21 12:07:59 1993 From: Erik-Jan.Bos at SURFnet.nl (Erik-Jan.Bos at SURFnet.nl) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 12:07:59 +0100 Subject: RIPE 14 - WG meetings In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 21 Jan 93 11:08:05 +0100. Message-ID: <"survis.sur.706:21.00.93.11.08.11"@surfnet.nl> Francis, > Draft agenda for the meeting of the DNS WG at RIPE-14 in Prague : > > Old open items : > - root servers in Europe > - global DNS server coordination in Europe > - cookbook, advices, horror stories, ... > - DNS software (with known bugs) and tools > > Special items for RIPE-14 : > - BIND 4.9 (a beta version is available) > - (again) names for European organizations (European Parliament) > - DNS for IPv7 (TUBA/SIP/PIP) > > Actions (from RIPE-13) : > - cookbook on DNS : the "DNS and BIND" O'Reilly book is not yet available > in Europe (but I am trying to get one for the meeting) then I propose to > extend this action. I can take mine, if you want. > Needed for this meeting : > - a report about BIND 4.9 > - input for DNS support for IPv7 __ Erik-Jan. From k13 at nikhef.nl Thu Jan 21 12:17:30 1993 From: k13 at nikhef.nl (Rob Blokzijl) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 93 12:17:30 +0100 Subject: RIPE 14 - WG meetings In-Reply-To: your message of Jan 21, 12:07 Message-ID: <9301211117.AA03934@nikhefh.nikhef.nl> +--- Start of included message from: Erik-Jan.Bos at SURFnet.nl ----- | | Francis, | | > Draft agenda for the meeting of the DNS WG at RIPE-14 in Prague : | > | > Actions (from RIPE-13) : | > - cookbook on DNS : the "DNS and BIND" O'Reilly book is not yet available | > in Europe (but I am trying to get one for the meeting) then I propose to | > extend this action. | | I can take mine, if you want. I bought mine in Europe... | | > Needed for this meeting : | > - a report about BIND 4.9 | > - input for DNS support for IPv7 | | __ | | Erik-Jan. | +--- End of included message from: Erik-Jan.Bos at SURFnet.nl ----- Rob