[diversity] Hosting RIPE85 in Serbia that is trying to cancel EuroPride 2022
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Vesna Manojlovic
BECHA at ripe.net
Wed Aug 31 09:38:15 CEST 2022
Hank, good suggestions! I'd like to add an aspect of environmental costs / sustainability criteria; here are example from similar communities: IETF: https://www.ietf.org/blog/towards-a-net-zero-ietf/ ACM SIGPLAN: https://www.sigplan.org/Resources/Climate/ Mozilla Community: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Projects/Sustainability/Research On 31/08/2022 06:58, Hank Nussbacher wrote: > Perhaps RIPE or someone with good data analytical skills can crunch the > numbers from previous meetings: > > https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/archive > <https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/ripe-meetings/archive> > > First mark which venues are considered low-cost, moderate and expensive > (3 categories). > > https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_rankings_current.jsp?region=150 > <https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_rankings_current.jsp?region=150> > > Next, determine how many people attended and again mark it is low, > moderate and high to determine which venue attracted the most people: > > https://ripe78.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/ > <https://ripe78.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/> > > https://ripe84.ripe.net/attendee-list/ > <https://ripe84.ripe.net/attendee-list/> > > https://ripe79.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/ > <https://ripe79.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/> > > https://ripe77.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/ > <https://ripe77.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/> > > etc… > > Lastly, use sites like: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Central_Europe > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Central_Europe> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe#Eastern_and_Central_Europe > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe#Eastern_and_Central_Europe> > > along with other factors like visa availability to determine countries > that can be considered good/moderate/bad in the realm of inclusiveness. > > Now assign weights to each of the 3 categories and we can then come up > with a list of venues that are better suited than others. > > Regards, > > Hank > > *From:*diversity [mailto:diversity-bounces at ripe.net] *On Behalf Of > *Cynthia Revström > *Sent:* 30 August 2022 18:34 > *To:* Vesna Manojlovic <BECHA at ripe.net> > *Cc:* diversity at ripe.net > *Subject:* Re: [diversity] Hosting RIPE85 in Serbia that is trying to > cancel EuroPride 2022 > > Hi Vesna, > > I agree with you here and we will probably have to kinda balance the > pros and cons to various groups. > > There are some countries which imo we should absolutely not host RIPE > meetings in, such as those without a functioning democracy and those > with governments that are actively hostile towards LGBTQ+ people. > > Serbia is kinda on the edge here, but is certainly far from the worst > and might be acceptable. > > One thing that stands out to me though is that from looking at the > attendee list, at the time of writing this, not a single person from > Serbia has registered so far it seems.[1] (as in where the country is "RS") > > If we can't get a single person from Serbia to register for a RIPE > meeting in Serbia then I feel like the downsides of hosting it in Serbia > outweigh the benefits as a lot of the benefits go away in my opinion. > > Of course we didn't know this before scheduling it in Serbia but it > still makes me think that we should possibly reconsider the pros and > cons a bit better for the future. > > Creating a list like Hank suggested might be a good idea to try to > evaluate the best options for future meetings. > > Also given how I think a lot of people are paid by their employers to > attend and how any location is likely going to be semi-expensive for > people who don't live there, I feel like the economic parts should have > much less weight than the other factors. > > People not being able to travel because it costs money is sad, but > people not being able to travel because they feel unsafe or blocked from > entering due to being LGBTQ+ or just being the "wrong" nationality is > way worse imo. > > The summary of my take is: We should consider all of these factors but > we need to figure out how important they are, and also figure out where > the red lines are. (as in what the total deal breakers are that simply > can't be accepted regardless of whatever pros there are in other ways) > > [1]: https://ripe85.ripe.net/attend/attendee-list/ > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fripe85.ripe.net%2Fattend%2Fattendee-list%2F&data=05%7C01%7Chank%40mail.iucc.ac.il%7Cb3c32c5829ea407d49df08da8a9d1f87%7C5157b0be66864470892cbf98e43728a4%7C1%7C1%7C637975167127346341%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C5000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4WgSEKzftKAoRcDcjvaBuOVGudlziBBlW2J3wz%2FVA6A%3D&reserved=0> > > -Cynthia > > On Mon, 29 Aug 2022, 15:28 Vesna Manojlovic, <BECHA at ripe.net > <mailto:BECHA at ripe.net>> wrote: > > Hi Sascha, > > I do feel triggered with this call for a certain "openness", > I hope you take this reply in a best possible way! > > On 28/08/2022 16:45, Sascha Pollok wrote: > > The in-person meetings should welcome everybody and not > > force them to make those weird compromises. > > ... > > > If we want to offer an open meeting, we need to pick the location > > accordingly. > > Theoretically, I agree with you -- but -- some of the locations that > are > considered "open" are only so to certain groups of people... > > (e.g. Germany, Holland, Scandinavia... UK!?) > > ... and there are still many many people for whom these countries are > NOT open; people who are disadvantaged by _other_ circumstances: > > - people who can not afford to travel to North/West Europe, since the > hotels & food are too expensive for them > > & > > - people from "wrong" countries who can not get a visa > > > ... so if we would host meetings only in those countries, RIPE would be > missing out on many contributions. > > > > It is a difficult challenge to offer equal opportunities for wide > variety of particpation... and I am glad that we are now considering > many of the aspects; I am hoping this will lead to better events, and > more justice in the world! > > > Vesna > > > > _______________________________________________ > diversity mailing list > diversity at ripe.net <mailto:diversity at ripe.net> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ripe.net%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fdiversity&data=05%7C01%7Chank%40mail.iucc.ac.il%7Cb3c32c5829ea407d49df08da8a9d1f87%7C5157b0be66864470892cbf98e43728a4%7C1%7C1%7C637975167127502700%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C5000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=genKKvwWtYGvRdE3YDgE0StKfIQLiHSzCHuQMT8SLYc%3D&reserved=0> > -- Community Builder, RIPE NCC Working times: Monday-Thursday 10-16 CEST https://labs.ripe.net/author/becha/
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