[diversity] CoC Draft & Action Items

Just don't link it into the web site structure and give it a non obvious 
URL and you should be fine. I don't recall anyone stumbling across a 
draft page when I did it that way at AusNOG. Of course if you really 
wanted to act paranoid you could put it on a non RIPE site but that 
seems overly dramatic :-)

Mark.

On 16/5/19 22:55, Brian Nisbet wrote:
> That would be amazing, Amanda, hmm, well, we don’t want to suddenly 
> start the discussion early due to people stumbling over it, before HPH 
> has at least got a chance to look at it, but I may be being over cautious?
> 
> Brian
> 
> Brian Nisbet
> 
> Service Operations Manager
> 
> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
> 
> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
> 
> +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
> 
> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
> 
> *From:*diversity <diversity-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf Of *Amanda Gowland
> *Sent:* Thursday 16 May 2019 14:07
> *To:* diversity at ripe.net
> *Subject:* Re: [diversity] CoC Draft & Action Items
> 
> And should I get the latest version from Google Docs and put it on the 
> website so it's easier to circulate?
> 
> On 16/05/2019 15:06, Amanda Gowland wrote:
> 
>     +1 to getting this circulated today
> 
>     On 16/05/2019 15:03, Brian Nisbet wrote:
> 
>         Sasha,
> 
>         We absolutely don’t want people nit picking and wordsmithing by
>         committee just about works, it doesn’t by community.
> 
>         I think we can put it out there and solicit a response, but it
>         will have to be framed as something that is happening, and while
>         it will be an open discussion, nor will every point be
>         addressed, but we as a TF (it’s absolutely not all on you at
>         all!) need to be able to justify our decisions.
> 
>         So a lot of it will be, “Please provide any feedback, which will
>         be considered and possibly included in a 2^nd draft.” I’m happy
>         to lead that process on the mailing list, as others may be?
> 
>         For me, the mandate will come from a general consensus of the
>         community. The accountability… to the RIPE Chair and (soon to
>         exist) Vice-Chair? Or to the Exec Board? I’m hoping others might
>         have some thoughts here as well.
> 
>         There does have to be some appeal (and the groups above might
>         work, with the Vice-Chair position in existence it might cover
>         some of the problems with a potential Chair being in violation
>         of the CoC?), but I haven’t got anything better than the
>         existing structures and all of them have some issues, so which
>         are the least bad.
> 
>         I’m very worried, given it’s the Friday before the meeting, that
>         really presenting this at RIPE78 is going to be difficult. But
>         given there were no objections, I think what I can do today is
>         formally present the text as is to HPH and see what he reckons.
>         (It doesn’t have to be me, at all, but I’m happy to do it.)
> 
>         Thanks,
> 
>         Brian
> 
>         Brian Nisbet
> 
>         Service Operations Manager
> 
>         HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
> 
>         1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
> 
>         +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>         <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie> www.heanet.ie <http://www.heanet.ie>
> 
>         Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
> 
>         *From:*diversity <diversity-bounces at ripe.net>
>         <mailto:diversity-bounces at ripe.net> *On Behalf Of *Sasha Romijn
>         *Sent:* Tuesday 14 May 2019 19:51
>         *To:* diversity at ripe.net <mailto:diversity at ripe.net>
>         *Subject:* Re: [diversity] CoC Draft & Action Items
> 
>         Hi Brian,
> 
>         I think these are good next steps. I am a bit concerned about
>         how to handle the response from the wider community. We indeed
>         don’t want dozens of e-mails nitpicking every word, and this is
>         a document where that risk is more significant than your average
>         RIPE document. Also because there is a limited amount of time
>         and energy I can put into responding and explaining things -
>         responding to comments from 8 people on this list is still quite
>         doable, but if there’s going to be 40 people commenting on the
>         RIPE list, there’s limits to what I can and will do. Unless
>         someone starts funding my work.
> 
>         So, some thought in advance about how we could smoothen this
>         process would be useful. I have no ideas.
> 
>         Regarding the CoC team structure, mandate, process, etc., there
>         will be questions if we circulate the text without this covered,
>         so we’d need to explain that work on that is still ongoing. I
>         expect this may be a more controversial point for the community,
>         because it creates a new power structure that does not entirely
>         fall under existing structures.
> 
>         Someone also raised, in the google doc comments, concerns about
>         an option for reconsideration of a decision by different people,
>         if someone feels the decision of the CoC team was unjustified.
> 
>         As I said in my recent e-mail, I have some early ideas about the
>         team layout - those are in no way fixed. But I don’t really have
>         any ideas on mandate, accountability, and at the same time
>         guaranteeing independence, preventing excessive bureaucracy or
>         fights on ripe-list about every CoC decision. We do need to
>         start working on this to have any chance of putting something
>         into operation by RIPE79.
> 
>         Sasha
> 
> 
> 
> 
>             On 10 May 2019, at 10:51, Brian Nisbet
>             <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>> wrote:
> 
>             So, my thoughts on how we should proceed on all of this.
>             These are just thoughts btw.
> 
>               * Present the full text to the RIPE Chair and discuss next
>                 steps
>               * Circulate the text to the community
>               * Possible LT at RIPE78
>               * Further input from the community
>               * Into operation for RIPE79
> 
>             What I certainly don’t want is wordsmithing by the
>             community, nor would I expect the WG Chairs or the PC to be
>             the CoC team.
> 
>             This is all pretty high level, but it’s a notion? I think we
>             would need Mirijam or Amanda to make sure that HPH has some
>             cycles to look at this over the next few days, without
>             rushing him?
> 
>             Brian
> 
>             Brian Nisbet
> 
>             Service Operations Manager
> 
>             HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
> 
>             1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
> 
>             +35316609040brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>             <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>www.heanet.ie
>             <http://www.heanet.ie/>
> 
>             Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
> 
>             *From:*Sasha Romijn <sasha at mxsasha.eu <mailto:sasha at mxsasha.eu>>
>             *Sent:*Tuesday 7 May 2019 14:43
>             *To:*Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>             <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>>
>             *Cc:*diversity at ripe.net <mailto:diversity at ripe.net>
>             *Subject:*Re: [diversity] CoC Draft & Action Items
> 
>             Hi,
> 
>             The draft is waiting for me to merge some more suggested
>             changes and fix some things raised in the thread.
> 
>             If all goes well, I can wrap that up this week.
> 
>             Based on the responses on the draft, we seem to mostly agree
>             on it otherwise.
> 
>             As Amanda said, there is still the question of the CoC team,
>             which handles CoC incidents, and how they get a mandate. I
>             have some*_rough_*thoughts on that.
> 
>             As I’ve argued before, I think this role should not rest
>             with the WG chairs or with the RIPE chair. The best option
>             is likely a specific CoC team. Considering the structure of
>             this community with a mix of online spaces and conferences,
>             my first thought is one team, of which at least 4 people
>             should be present and available at any RIPE meeting.
>             Attending (all) RIPE meetings should not be a requirement,
>             as RIPE meetings are not accessible to all, so it would be
>             exclusionary. Having a single team helps some continuity,
>             ongoing development, and consistency.
> 
>             I’m not sure whether we should retain the trusted contacts
>             as a separate team. I guess that could be very confusing.
> 
>             The team needs to have an independent mandate, which
>             includes measures like banning of a person from a
>             conference, or terminating an ongoing talk.
> 
>             Regarding who should be in it, I’m not sure how to work that
>             out within the governance models of the RIPE community. In
>             Django, the first CoC committee was formed ages ago, and
>             mostly consisted of people involved in introducing the CoC
>             at the time. The committee self-governs, asking for new
>             volunteers when needed. The committee has a mandate from the
>             board of the Django Software Foundation, and is also
>             accountable to them. That board is in turn elected by the
>             membership of that foundation. So in general there is
>             self-management and delegation of mandate, but with
>             accountability and reporting. The board can intervene if
>             needed. I believe the Python Software Foundation has or is
>             working on a similar model.
> 
>             CoC team members also need to know what they’re getting
>             into, and ensure they have sufficient availability.
>             Especially on-site at a meeting, action may need to happen
>             fast. Which means being reachable and able to change plans
>             suddenly. Also, CoC work can be emotionally intense.
>             Sometimes it’s really hard to decide whether it’s a
>             violation and what should be done, sometimes incidents occur
>             that are very serious and have a heavy impact. A lot of
>             empathy work is involved. It also means your own behaviour
>             is under the heaviest scrutiny of pretty much anyone at the
>             conference, because as a team member you set the example of
>             what is acceptable. This extends to every interaction
>             related to the conference. It means you absolutely can not
>             get a bit drunk at the party and blurt out a few sexist
>             jokes - if we fail to set an example, the process falls
>             apart (the #1 reason for me not to report incidents is
>             because I don’t trust the response team). And, not everyone
>             will like every decision you make, so especially team
>             members from minority groups are at an increased risk of
>             abusive behaviour from others.
> 
>             For training my first choice:
>             https://otter.technology/code-of-conduct-training/
> 
>             I have not followed this training myself yet, but I have
>             universally heard good things about it.
> 
>             (And CoC team members should not be required to pay out of
>             pocket for this, as that would be exclusionary.)
> 
>             So, a big question is: within the processes of the RIPE
>             community, how does a CoC response team get a mandate? To
>             whom is it accountable and how? Can it self-manage members?
> 
>             And also essential: we should prevent the CoC team from
>             being dragged into months of discussion for every decision,
>             just because one or two people who don’t like it stir up
>             discussion on a mailing list - I do see this as a potential
>             risk in the RIPE community due to its structure. Also, no
>             process may depend on a single person.
> 
>             (I will not be attending RIPE78 btw)
> 
>             Sasha
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                 On 7 May 2019, at 15:00, Brian Nisbet
>                 <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>>
>                 wrote:
> 
>                 Folks,
> 
>                 I'm just wondering, where do we, collectively, believe
>                 the action item (or similar) lies at present with the
>                 draft for the new CoC.
> 
>                  From my reading there was an amount of feedback
>                 provided, but is the draft at a point where it can be
>                 officially shared with HPH, other stakeholders and the
>                 community, or is there more work to do? We have under
>                 two weeks before RIPE78 begins and I worry that we
>                 aren't in a good place to share our work (while
>                 absolutely noting that people might be waiting for me to
>                 do something?).
> 
>                 Thanks,
> 
>                 Brian
> 
>                 Brian Nisbet
>                 Service Operations Manager
>                 HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research
>                 Network
>                 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>                 +35316609040brian.nisbet at heanet.ie
>                 <mailto:brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>www.heanet.ie
>                 <http://www.heanet.ie/>
>                 Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
> 
> 
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