[db-wg] Interest to continue NWI-9
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Sasha Romijn
sasha at mxsasha.eu
Fri Oct 30 14:27:56 CET 2020
Hello Denis, A new NWI sounds reasonable. Working towards a solution that can then be implemented fairly quickly in IRRd and the RIPE database is great, because it’ll allow us to reach fairly wide adoption on a relatively short timescale. I can’t make the proposed call, but I’ll wait to see what comes out of that first - as the person who implemented NRTMv3 in IRRd and will be writing on IRRd’s NRTMv4 implementation, I do have opinions :) Sasha > On 30 Oct 2020, at 08:36, Stavros Konstantaras via db-wg <db-wg at ripe.net> wrote: > > Hi Dennis, > > I agree to close NWI-9 and proceed with opening of NWI-12 in order to explore ways > to modernise the NRTM service. With that said, please consider my interest also for > NWI-12. > > > Best regards, > > Stavros Konstantaras | Sr. Network Engineer | AMS-IX > M +31 (0) 620 89 51 04 | T +31 20 305 8999 > ams-ix.net <http://ams-ix.net/> > >> On 29 Oct 2020, at 18:30, denis walker <ripedenis at gmail.com <mailto:ripedenis at gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi Job >> >> I would agree that NWI-9 is finished, according to the way it is >> worded. I would suggest we create NWI-12 to move forward with a new >> version of NRTM. Perhaps you could write the first draft of the >> problem statement? >> >> cheers >> denis >> co-chair DB-WG >> >> On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 18:09, Job Snijders <job at ntt.net <mailto:job at ntt.net>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear group, >>> >>> I think NWI-9 needs to be reworded, it in part has been over taken by >>> current events. Rereading https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2019-April/006236.html <https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2019-April/006236.html> >>> what is described there actually already has completed. >>> >>> RIPE NCC's NRTM servers are open to the public (this was not the case in >>> april 2019 yet). The NRTM servers can be used to *subscribe* to changes >>> in the RIPE database. When the NRTM client remains connected, it will >>> receive NRTM updates as they come in. THIS IS IN-BAND, AND FAST. The >>> rate of object change is very low compared to most information systems. >>> >>> Looking at https://ripe79.ripe.net/presentations/118-NWI-9_S.Konstantaras_DB-WG.pdf <https://ripe79.ripe.net/presentations/118-NWI-9_S.Konstantaras_DB-WG.pdf> >>> it is not clear to me what the problem definition is and how it relates >>> to the wording of NWI-9. The proposed optimisations are either not in >>> the RIPE IRR -> Cache layer (as NRTM is really near-real-time when >>> implemented correctly) but elsewhere in the end-to-end route server >>> functionality. From this perspective NWI-9 has already been completed! >>> >>> Now, there is plenty to be left desired about NRTM v3. Even though it is >>> both a push and pull protocol and very fast (the push can measured in >>> single digit seconds), NRTM v3 clearly is an ancient protocol and the >>> operational community would benefit from a re-design of NRTM. >>> >>> WORK IS UNDER WAY: LACNIC has committed funding for IRRd's NRTM v4 >>> implementation. RIPE NCC's 'good for the Internet' community fund has >>> also been requested. That decision is still pending with the committee >>> operating that fund. >>> >>> So what we have so far: >>> >>> - A collective desire to replace NRTM v3 with something else >>> - The *only* two IRR server code bases of this industry have >>> (partial) funding to make changes possible: IRRd and RIPE WHOIS server >>> - A standardisation forum to publish the new spec: IETF >>> - Multiple forums for input: RIPE DB-WG, IETF, *NOG, IRC, etc >>> >>> If NWI-9 is kept open I would request it is reworded to the extend that >>> this working group requests RIPE NCC to commit to help design, >>> implement, test & adhere to what will become "NRTM v4". >>> >>> I read Stavros' presentation where the above plan is listed as >>> 'Langzaam' :-) but the characterization may be a little bit off: there >>> is no Legal aspect to deal with: RIPE NCC made NRTM freely, >>> contract-less, publicly and in real-time available already. Also keep in >>> mind that any new protocol will indeed need to be tested (even if >>> general purpose components such as JSON, HTTPS and WebSockets are >>> used!). >>> >>> NRTM v4's design will have nothing to do with how NRTM v3 looks and >>> feels. NRTM v4 will be HTTPS based, I guarantee it! This project has >>> 'NRTM v4' as name to make it clear to the IRR operational community >>> where in the internet-stack this protocol belongs, but that it is an >>> improvement over version 3. >>> >>> NRTM v4 can easily be something that is finished and deployed in 2021. >>> What needs to be done is fairly straight-forward, and lots of existing >>> tools can be used to make the job easier (like HTTPS and JSON). >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Job >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 05:22:10PM +0100, denis walker via db-wg wrote: >>>> Hi Stavros >>>> >>>> Thanks for the comment. I have let Ed know about your interest. >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> denis >>>> co-chair DB-WG >>>> >>>> On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 17:11, Stavros Konstantaras via db-wg >>>> <db-wg at ripe.net <mailto:db-wg at ripe.net>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi WG chairs, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would like to declare that from our side we are still interested to team up with Ed and RIPE NCC colleagues to continue the work on NWI-9 item >>>>> in order to modernise the NRTM service with something better and more suitable for our current needs. >>>>> >>>>> As far as I can recall, Ed and his team have several ideas to proceed forward with this subject, so I believe that we would be able to draw a clear development plan. >>>>> And as a kind reminder, not only us (AMS-IX) but the European IXP community has expressed interest on proceeding with that subject. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you and we are looking forward to discuss further steps on the subject. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> Stavros Konstantaras | Sr. Network Engineer | AMS-IX >>>>> M +31 (0) 620 89 51 04 | T +31 20 305 8999 >>>>> ams-ix.net <http://ams-ix.net/> >>>>> >>>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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