[db-wg] WG Chairs Selection

Hi Erik, 

Can't say I agree with your line of questioning or views here. 

> A chair should be present at the meetings and one can't say I'll come to the meeting once I'm the (co-)chair..

Why not? Not all members have the finances that brokers enjoy (made directly from our RIR communities and members) or time to attend all meetings. 
Under the Working Group Chair Job Description and Procedures: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-542
"6. RIPE Meetings Responsibilities
i) General/Plenary
WG Chairs are expected to:
Attend RIPE Meetings **or ensure that a co-chair attends the meeting**"

Wilfried I believe was a very successful DB WG chair, yet did not attend RIPE 57 in Dubai. Where Nigel did just fine: 
meetings.ripe.net/ripe-57/quicktime/database.mov
And I'm sure there are several other instances where chairs could not attend a meeting due to extreme circumstances, yet they served the community very well. 

> The chair should be selected from people in the room, not from the mailing list

Red flag for me. So a room of say 100 members have the authority to decide the chair(s) for a community of ~15k members? And the community's feedback on the mailing list is not as important? Hmm. 
I believe that the lack of diverse contribution on the mailing lists, beyond the usual few, is primarily because many members feel disenfranchised by exactly these kind of sentiments. 
We are a large community, geographically as well as membership wise. We need to widen the net of opinions and interests rather than narrowing it. 

> So if the goal of your plan to run for (co-)chair is to work with the community to push a certain line of thinking into the future of the DB-WG

Chairs do take their official wg-chair hat off occasionally to express their personal opinion, and clearly announce when they are doing so. Is that no longer allowed? 
And I have faith in the intelligence and integrity of the community to pounce on any bias they feel coming from a chair while in their official capacity, as it has always done. 
[Note: Denis has already stated that the next group of chairs should focus on the growing list of important issues already on the table. And that this not the time or place for offering his personal view on potential DB improvements.] 
	
Regarding the rest of your email, I don't think it's tasteful to discuss people's financial situations publically. 

Keeping my +1 for Denis strong because of his immense understanding of the RIPE DB that can be an asset in supporting the whole community's interests. Along with my approvals for David and Piotr. 

Regards, 
James

-----Original Message-----
From: db-wg [mailto:db-wg-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Erik Bais
Sent: 18 November 2016 12:36
To: 'denis'
Cc: db-wg at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [db-wg] WG Chairs Selection

Hi Denis, 

> Yes as a co-chair I would be able to attend RIPE Meetings. Since I 
> left the NCC there has not been any need for me to attend, but I still 
> followed many of them online.

I have a problem with this line of thinking. 

A chair should be present at the meetings and one can't say I'll come to the meeting once I'm the (co-)chair.. 
The chair should be selected from people in the room, not from the mailing list and if you have the feeling that you don't 'need' to attend as a regular community member, then that is not the chair I would want. 

Being the chair of most of the WG's and DB (or AP for that matter) in particular, have shown to be the MOST ungrateful job in the community.  I don't envy ANY of the chairs for some of the abuse or personal attacks some of them have to deal with.. 
It is not a thing to polish one's resume with ... 

What I want to avoid is that we come to a situation where we select a DB WG chair here on the mailing list, under the assumption that he/she will come to meetings .. but then doesn't ... 
Or if he/she does, that he/she will have/get a financial issue maintaining his/her presence at the meetings.  

Being a chair doesn't give any compensation .. a chair, like any other community member will need to pay for his/her own entrance ticket and lodging.. and travel.  
This would sum up easy to 1500 euro to 2500 euro cost per event..  And with all respect, if you don't have a (corporate) sponsor ( like an employer or are self-employed), that means that this becomes a very heavy burden to carry that might add undesired stress .. and from what I read in your replies, that might not be the best idea. 

I'm not talking here if you would be fit for the job or if you know what you are talking about in regards of the database, but this isn't rocket science Denis.. 
I don't think that the community would do you a (or any) favor by asking you that kind of (financial) commitment.. while you could steer less the ideas from the stage than you would be from the meeting room.  

So if the goal of your plan to run for (co-)chair is to work with the community to push a certain line of thinking into the future of the DB-WG, I would strongly suggest to do this in the community (in the room or on the mailing list) and not as a chair (at this moment..)  

Regards,
Erik Bais