[db-wg] data model

Hi Denis,


> And that is the issue. No one disagrees with me! But only one person (on
> these lists) agrees with me. So in theory that should be a consensus for
> moving forward. But generally every time I mention the data model my
> comments are totally ignored. 

I will not guess what other people think, but when I did exactly that in
a recent exchange it was not out of disagreement or opposition, but
simply for complete lack of interest in that discussion. Should a new
data model be discussed? Maybe, I don't care. Would it help in the
current discussion about abuse-c? Certainly not.


> Simplifying the data model benefits new members more than
> the people on these lists. 

Allow me one comment on the recurring theme of the actual setup being
over complicated for newcomers: I'm using the RIPE DB (as a data
provider) only a couple of times per year, and only have been doing so
for a couple of years. When I had to do it, I took a few moments to
understand it, and to read the most important documents. It was really
not something challenging. Doing this is what I consider the most
elementary courtesy towards the maintainers of the system. Any my
tolerance towards people not putting some moderate effort into using a
system is fairly low.

So should a new data model be simpler? If there is a case for that, why
not - but not at the cost of flexibility for users that accept to put
some brain in it. Or you will end up with something along the lines of
"make something an idiot can use and only an idiot will want to use it".

> The only thing I see is that it is obvious
> the people on these lists are not interested in even discussing the
> topic. Professional courtesy would mean some people would at least state
> their objection to even discussing this topic, even if it is "leave it
> alone, 'we' don't want it changed, it is of no benefit to us and we
> don't care about the wider community". It is not possible to have an
> open discussion on these lists if you hit a topic they don't want to
> talk about.

Courtesy also dictates not to intervene in a discussion you do not care
about.

> I don't think there is any point having this discussion now on these
> lists. The silence is clear what their views are. 

No, not that clear.

> I am looking at other
> avenues to raise this subject, away from these lists.

Personally I don't think that these lists are suited for an open-ended
discussion on something this abstract. Not unless some kind of draft
proposal is to be discussed.


best,
Gilles

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