[cooperation-wg] RIPE NCC Hosts Workshop for Russian LEAs

Michele,

[ Hm... I had this marked as "sent on 2018-02-21" on my mailbox, but I
  don't see it on the mailing list archives. Re-sending a month later. ]

I was at a gathering where a member of the Dutch government explained
the negotiations with the US regarding TTIP(*). Basically the US
insisted that all negotiations be done in secret. The Dutch
representatives felt like they had no choice, so agreed to this
condition. The feeling of most of the room, including myself, was that
the Dutch government should have said that it was impossible for us to
conduct such non-transparent discussions and walked away.

That is my feeling here too with the RIPE NCC and LEA, which is to say
that I basically agree with Alexander.

I realize that LEA officials may not have freedom to attend meetings
openly for many reasons. That is a shame and I do not blame them or
think that they necessarily have bad motives. Legal restrictions may
exist, or simply perception problems, and these can be very real.

But the Internet culture has always been transparent, and we should
strive always for maximum openness and transparency, even if this makes
certain types of interactions impossible.

It may also be that LEA culture and governmental culture in general
reflexively tries to do things in secret - or at least private - that do
not need to be. Perhaps the RIPE community pushing a bit may move things
in the right direction.

In terms of oversight and accountability, such secret meetings are also
problematic for the RIPE NCC members. How can a member evaluate if their
interests are being represented if they cannot even know who is being
talked to? Alexander's concerns about discussions with bad actors seem
justified to me.

Cheers,

--
Shane

(*)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership

Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
> 
> Holding meetings with LEA is a good idea in order to help them understand what we all do as well as to understand their concerns.
> 
> Demanding that they register etc., would make such meetings problematic.
> 
> So I disagree with you fundamentally.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Michele
> 
> 
> --
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> https://www.blacknight.com/
> http://blacknight.blog/
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ 
> -------------------------------
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
> On 19/02/2018, 15:08, "cooperation-wg on behalf of Alexander Isavnin" <cooperation-wg-bounces at ripe.net on behalf of isavnin at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>     Chris!
>     
>     Seems i'v mistaken, and Openness and Transparency are no longer essencial values for RIPE NCC.
>     
>     No gap could be briged if LEAs stays anonymous. 
>     Breaking openness and transparency for comfort of some doubtful officers - is really bad idea.
>     
>     Why i ask for LEA deanonymisation? 
>     Read ECHR cases against Russia on tortures (and other abuses) by all kind of LEAs. It would be really pity, if later appears, that RIPE NCC have met some of such abusers.
>     
>     Regards, 
>     Alexander
>     
>     P.S. As we say in Internet: "pics, or never happened"
>     P.P.S. Also, "Once cop always cop", even if it tries to infiltrate into engeneering world. As we seen, successfully protecting interests of cops, rather than interests of Community.
>     
>     Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum
>     
>     
>