From isavnin at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 07:30:53 2017 From: isavnin at gmail.com (Alexander Isavnin) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2017 07:30:53 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Another one MoU bites the dust Message-ID: Congratulations! Another one MoU signed. RIPE NCC and EURALO. I have really strange feeling about it. Like my Right hand establishes Memorandum of Understanding with my Left hand: as member of ISOC Russian Chapter which is member of EURALO do i need to memorandumize understanding with me as representative of member of RIPE NCC? Do Axel Pawlik needs additional understanding with Olivier Crepin-Leblond? And there are more questions: What kind of additional understanding needed between such organizations? Why it 's so urgent to sign up MoU for 2 European organizations no close to Europe than Abu-Dhabi? How to measure reasonability of such memorandums? And even more, really important: How to control effectiveness and outcome of such MoUs? I have sad example of MoU with Russian Telco Ministry. NOTHING done from Russian Ministry side. Ministry promises to understand and promote RACI. Well, Ministry have educational institutions of professional and high education. NO RACI submissions to ENOG programme at all. (also question effectiveness of RACI in region). So, i want to rise discussion about such MoUs. I do not feel need of such MoUs just to do something, or demonstrate "external relations" activities or demonstrate cooperation just to have possibility to report on cooperation. In some cases "non-legal binding document" harmless for Europeans could be dangerous for others: mentioned MoU with Russian telco ministry - brings words "IP address" and "database" to official language of telco regulator, dreaming of "enforced routing registry". There only one really important MoU - one around RIR system. Having number of meaningless documents around really inflates importance of that MoU. Also, no discussions prior and announcements were made. Even no news is published, no possibility to see text of this MoU (at this moment). Kind regards, Alexander Isavnin Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum From michele at blacknight.com Mon Nov 6 14:00:45 2017 From: michele at blacknight.com (Michele Neylon - Blacknight) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 13:00:45 +0000 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Another one MoU bites the dust In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alexander It was discussed briefly on the EURALO mailing list I've no idea what if any value it brings. Olivier might be able to enlighten us. Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains https://www.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.blog/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 ?On 02/11/2017, 06:31, "cooperation-wg on behalf of Alexander Isavnin" wrote: Congratulations! Another one MoU signed. RIPE NCC and EURALO. I have really strange feeling about it. Like my Right hand establishes Memorandum of Understanding with my Left hand: as member of ISOC Russian Chapter which is member of EURALO do i need to memorandumize understanding with me as representative of member of RIPE NCC? Do Axel Pawlik needs additional understanding with Olivier Crepin-Leblond? And there are more questions: What kind of additional understanding needed between such organizations? Why it 's so urgent to sign up MoU for 2 European organizations no close to Europe than Abu-Dhabi? How to measure reasonability of such memorandums? And even more, really important: How to control effectiveness and outcome of such MoUs? I have sad example of MoU with Russian Telco Ministry. NOTHING done from Russian Ministry side. Ministry promises to understand and promote RACI. Well, Ministry have educational institutions of professional and high education. NO RACI submissions to ENOG programme at all. (also question effectiveness of RACI in region). So, i want to rise discussion about such MoUs. I do not feel need of such MoUs just to do something, or demonstrate "external relations" activities or demonstrate cooperation just to have possibility to report on cooperation. In some cases "non-legal binding document" harmless for Europeans could be dangerous for others: mentioned MoU with Russian telco ministry - brings words "IP address" and "database" to official language of telco regulator, dreaming of "enforced routing registry". There only one really important MoU - one around RIR system. Having number of meaningless documents around really inflates importance of that MoU. Also, no discussions prior and announcements were made. Even no news is published, no possibility to see text of this MoU (at this moment). Kind regards, Alexander Isavnin Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum From hph at oslo.net Mon Nov 6 18:48:30 2017 From: hph at oslo.net (Hans Petter Holen) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2017 17:48:30 +0000 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Another one MoU bites the dust In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The MOU is published here https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/ncc-euralo-mou.pdf Together with other MOUs https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/engagement-external-organisations On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 at 14:02, Michele Neylon - Blacknight < michele at blacknight.com> wrote: > Alexander > > It was discussed briefly on the EURALO mailing list > > I've no idea what if any value it brings. > > Olivier might be able to enlighten us. > > Regards > > Michele > > > -- > Mr Michele Neylon > Blacknight Solutions > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > https://www.blacknight.com/ > http://blacknight.blog/ > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ > Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ > ------------------------------- > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > ?On 02/11/2017, 06:31, "cooperation-wg on behalf of Alexander Isavnin" < > cooperation-wg-bounces at ripe.net on behalf of isavnin at gmail.com> wrote: > > Congratulations! > > Another one MoU signed. RIPE NCC and EURALO. > I have really strange feeling about it. > Like my Right hand establishes Memorandum of Understanding with my > Left hand: as member of ISOC Russian Chapter which is member of EURALO do i > need to memorandumize understanding with me as representative of member of > RIPE NCC? > Do Axel Pawlik needs additional understanding with Olivier > Crepin-Leblond? > > And there are more questions: > What kind of additional understanding needed between such > organizations? > Why it 's so urgent to sign up MoU for 2 European organizations no > close to Europe than Abu-Dhabi? > How to measure reasonability of such memorandums? > > And even more, really important: > How to control effectiveness and outcome of such MoUs? > I have sad example of MoU with Russian Telco Ministry. > NOTHING done from Russian Ministry side. Ministry promises to > understand and promote RACI. Well, Ministry have educational institutions > of professional and high education. NO RACI submissions to ENOG programme > at all. > (also question effectiveness of RACI in region). > > So, i want to rise discussion about such MoUs. > I do not feel need of such MoUs just to do something, or demonstrate > "external relations" activities or demonstrate cooperation just to have > possibility to report on cooperation. > > In some cases "non-legal binding document" harmless for Europeans > could be dangerous for others: mentioned MoU with Russian telco ministry - > brings words "IP address" and "database" to official language of telco > regulator, dreaming of "enforced routing registry". > > There only one really important MoU - one around RIR system. > Having number of meaningless documents around really inflates > importance of that MoU. > > Also, no discussions prior and announcements were made. > Even no news is published, no possibility to see text of this MoU (at > this moment). > > Kind regards, > Alexander Isavnin > > Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum > > > > -- -- Hans Petter Holen Mobile +47 45 06 60 54 | hph at oslo.net | http://hph.oslo.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gforgx at fotontel.ru Tue Nov 7 09:59:02 2017 From: gforgx at fotontel.ru (Sergey) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 11:59:02 +0300 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Another one MoU bites the dust In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9117e5e0-5997-da9c-c720-315459381fa4@fotontel.ru> Hello, I fully support Alexander. On 11/02/17 09:30, Alexander Isavnin wrote: > Congratulations! > > Another one MoU signed. RIPE NCC and EURALO. > I have really strange feeling about it. > Like my Right hand establishes Memorandum of Understanding with my Left hand: as member of ISOC Russian Chapter which is member of EURALO do i need to memorandumize understanding with me as representative of member of RIPE NCC? > Do Axel Pawlik needs additional understanding with Olivier Crepin-Leblond? > > And there are more questions: > What kind of additional understanding needed between such organizations? > Why it 's so urgent to sign up MoU for 2 European organizations no close to Europe than Abu-Dhabi? > How to measure reasonability of such memorandums? > > And even more, really important: > How to control effectiveness and outcome of such MoUs? > I have sad example of MoU with Russian Telco Ministry. > NOTHING done from Russian Ministry side. Ministry promises to understand and promote RACI. Well, Ministry have educational institutions of professional and high education. NO RACI submissions to ENOG programme at all. > (also question effectiveness of RACI in region). > > So, i want to rise discussion about such MoUs. > I do not feel need of such MoUs just to do something, or demonstrate "external relations" activities or demonstrate cooperation just to have possibility to report on cooperation. > > In some cases "non-legal binding document" harmless for Europeans could be dangerous for others: mentioned MoU with Russian telco ministry - brings words "IP address" and "database" to official language of telco regulator, dreaming of "enforced routing registry". > > There only one really important MoU - one around RIR system. > Having number of meaningless documents around really inflates importance of that MoU. > > Also, no discussions prior and announcements were made. > Even no news is published, no possibility to see text of this MoU (at this moment). > > Kind regards, > Alexander Isavnin > > Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum > From chrisb at ripe.net Tue Nov 7 10:18:08 2017 From: chrisb at ripe.net (Chris Buckridge) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 10:18:08 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Another one MoU bites the dust In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you, Hans Petter. To clarify, a report will be forthcoming to this list shortly on last week?s ICANN event, and that will include announcement of the MoU with EURALO (the goal being not to bombard the community with multiple emails). That said, I?m very happy to discuss the thinking behind the RIPE NCC?s plans to establish agreements with third parties. In fact, it?s almost exactly a year since we published an article regarding this on RIPE Labs: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/chrisb/building-and-documenting-stronger-relationships-with-external-organisations Since then, we?ve been practicing our ?elevator pitch?, which might be more useful in this instance: The RIPE NCC is looking to develop agreements (such as Memoranda of Understanding) with third parties, including business associations, community organisations and government bodies, for three reasons: 1. To identify opportunities to better cooperate on activities of mutual benefit. Basically, the content of the specific agreement - what do we plan to cooperate on, what are our common goals? 2. To build more robust relationships. While personal relationships are important and can help establish organisational relationships, people move jobs, positions change - formal agreements help ensure that those organisational relationships remain clear and intact. 3. Transparency! The RIPE NCC has relationships with many different kinds of organisations, and our membership and community have a legitimate interest in what those relationships actually entail - by documenting what we hope to achieve through these relationships in an MoU (or similar), we provide greater transparency towards for our membership and community. As Hans Petter noted, all of the agreements that the RIPE NCC has made are available on ripe.net: https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/engagement-external-organisations With specific regard to the EURALO MoU, this was an agreement that both EURALO and the RIPE NCC were very pleased to sign (and indeed, the RIPE NCC is the last of the five RIRs to sign an MoU with their regional At-Large association), and the ICANN meeting seemed the appropriate venue. Our common interests, both in technical matters (e.g. raising awareness of the need for IPv6 adoption) and more governance-related issues (e.g. support for open, bottom-up, inclusive policymaking structures) are clear and long-standing. Best regards, Chris Buckridge External Relations Manager RIPE NCC > On 6 Nov 2017, at 18:48, Hans Petter Holen wrote: > > The MOU is published here https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/ncc-euralo-mou.pdf > > Together with other MOUs https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/engagement-external-organisations > > > > On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 at 14:02, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: > Alexander > > It was discussed briefly on the EURALO mailing list > > I've no idea what if any value it brings. > > Olivier might be able to enlighten us. > > Regards > > Michele > > > -- > Mr Michele Neylon > Blacknight Solutions > Hosting, Colocation & Domains > https://www.blacknight.com/ > http://blacknight.blog/ > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ > Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ > ------------------------------- > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > ?On 02/11/2017, 06:31, "cooperation-wg on behalf of Alexander Isavnin" wrote: > > Congratulations! > > Another one MoU signed. RIPE NCC and EURALO. > I have really strange feeling about it. > Like my Right hand establishes Memorandum of Understanding with my Left hand: as member of ISOC Russian Chapter which is member of EURALO do i need to memorandumize understanding with me as representative of member of RIPE NCC? > Do Axel Pawlik needs additional understanding with Olivier Crepin-Leblond? > > And there are more questions: > What kind of additional understanding needed between such organizations? > Why it 's so urgent to sign up MoU for 2 European organizations no close to Europe than Abu-Dhabi? > How to measure reasonability of such memorandums? > > And even more, really important: > How to control effectiveness and outcome of such MoUs? > I have sad example of MoU with Russian Telco Ministry. > NOTHING done from Russian Ministry side. Ministry promises to understand and promote RACI. Well, Ministry have educational institutions of professional and high education. NO RACI submissions to ENOG programme at all. > (also question effectiveness of RACI in region). > > So, i want to rise discussion about such MoUs. > I do not feel need of such MoUs just to do something, or demonstrate "external relations" activities or demonstrate cooperation just to have possibility to report on cooperation. > > In some cases "non-legal binding document" harmless for Europeans could be dangerous for others: mentioned MoU with Russian telco ministry - brings words "IP address" and "database" to official language of telco regulator, dreaming of "enforced routing registry". > > There only one really important MoU - one around RIR system. > Having number of meaningless documents around really inflates importance of that MoU. > > Also, no discussions prior and announcements were made. > Even no news is published, no possibility to see text of this MoU (at this moment). > > Kind regards, > Alexander Isavnin > > Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum > > > > -- > -- Hans Petter Holen Mobile +47 45 06 60 54 | hph at oslo.net | http://hph.oslo.net From nurani at nimblebits.net Tue Nov 7 10:58:12 2017 From: nurani at nimblebits.net (Nurani Nimpuno) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 10:58:12 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Another one MoU bites the dust In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I personally think it is very useful for the RIPE NCC to establish these relationships, but also to be transparent and open about them. An MoU is a simple way of clarifying the relationship as well as being transparent about it to the broader community. It?s very helpful to see the list of organisations the RIPE NCC has MoUs with (I wasn?t aware of this page!). Keep up the good work. Thanks, Nurani > On 7 Nov 2017, at 10:18, Chris Buckridge wrote: > > Thank you, Hans Petter. > > To clarify, a report will be forthcoming to this list shortly on last week?s ICANN event, and that will include announcement of the MoU with EURALO (the goal being not to bombard the community with multiple emails). > > That said, I?m very happy to discuss the thinking behind the RIPE NCC?s plans to establish agreements with third parties. In fact, it?s almost exactly a year since we published an article regarding this on RIPE Labs: > https://labs.ripe.net/Members/chrisb/building-and-documenting-stronger-relationships-with-external-organisations > > Since then, we?ve been practicing our ?elevator pitch?, which might be more useful in this instance: > > The RIPE NCC is looking to develop agreements (such as Memoranda of Understanding) with third parties, including business associations, community organisations and government bodies, for three reasons: > > 1. To identify opportunities to better cooperate on activities of mutual benefit. Basically, the content of the specific agreement - what do we plan to cooperate on, what are our common goals? > > 2. To build more robust relationships. While personal relationships are important and can help establish organisational relationships, people move jobs, positions change - formal agreements help ensure that those organisational relationships remain clear and intact. > > 3. Transparency! The RIPE NCC has relationships with many different kinds of organisations, and our membership and community have a legitimate interest in what those relationships actually entail - by documenting what we hope to achieve through these relationships in an MoU (or similar), we provide greater transparency towards for our membership and community. > > > As Hans Petter noted, all of the agreements that the RIPE NCC has made are available on ripe.net: > https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/engagement-external-organisations > > With specific regard to the EURALO MoU, this was an agreement that both EURALO and the RIPE NCC were very pleased to sign (and indeed, the RIPE NCC is the last of the five RIRs to sign an MoU with their regional At-Large association), and the ICANN meeting seemed the appropriate venue. Our common interests, both in technical matters (e.g. raising awareness of the need for IPv6 adoption) and more governance-related issues (e.g. support for open, bottom-up, inclusive policymaking structures) are clear and long-standing. > > Best regards, > > Chris Buckridge > External Relations Manager > RIPE NCC > > > >> On 6 Nov 2017, at 18:48, Hans Petter Holen wrote: >> >> The MOU is published here https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/ncc-euralo-mou.pdf >> >> Together with other MOUs https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/engagement-external-organisations >> >> >> >> On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 at 14:02, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote: >> Alexander >> >> It was discussed briefly on the EURALO mailing list >> >> I've no idea what if any value it brings. >> >> Olivier might be able to enlighten us. >> >> Regards >> >> Michele >> >> >> -- >> Mr Michele Neylon >> Blacknight Solutions >> Hosting, Colocation & Domains >> https://www.blacknight.com/ >> http://blacknight.blog/ >> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 >> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ >> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ >> ------------------------------- >> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 >> ?On 02/11/2017, 06:31, "cooperation-wg on behalf of Alexander Isavnin" wrote: >> >> Congratulations! >> >> Another one MoU signed. RIPE NCC and EURALO. >> I have really strange feeling about it. >> Like my Right hand establishes Memorandum of Understanding with my Left hand: as member of ISOC Russian Chapter which is member of EURALO do i need to memorandumize understanding with me as representative of member of RIPE NCC? >> Do Axel Pawlik needs additional understanding with Olivier Crepin-Leblond? >> >> And there are more questions: >> What kind of additional understanding needed between such organizations? >> Why it 's so urgent to sign up MoU for 2 European organizations no close to Europe than Abu-Dhabi? >> How to measure reasonability of such memorandums? >> >> And even more, really important: >> How to control effectiveness and outcome of such MoUs? >> I have sad example of MoU with Russian Telco Ministry. >> NOTHING done from Russian Ministry side. Ministry promises to understand and promote RACI. Well, Ministry have educational institutions of professional and high education. NO RACI submissions to ENOG programme at all. >> (also question effectiveness of RACI in region). >> >> So, i want to rise discussion about such MoUs. >> I do not feel need of such MoUs just to do something, or demonstrate "external relations" activities or demonstrate cooperation just to have possibility to report on cooperation. >> >> In some cases "non-legal binding document" harmless for Europeans could be dangerous for others: mentioned MoU with Russian telco ministry - brings words "IP address" and "database" to official language of telco regulator, dreaming of "enforced routing registry". >> >> There only one really important MoU - one around RIR system. >> Having number of meaningless documents around really inflates importance of that MoU. >> >> Also, no discussions prior and announcements were made. >> Even no news is published, no possibility to see text of this MoU (at this moment). >> >> Kind regards, >> Alexander Isavnin >> >> Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum >> >> >> >> -- >> -- Hans Petter Holen Mobile +47 45 06 60 54 | hph at oslo.net | http://hph.oslo.net > > From mike.oghia at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 11:17:28 2017 From: mike.oghia at gmail.com (Michael J. Oghia) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 11:17:28 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Another one MoU bites the dust In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I couldn't agree more Nurani. Not only was I unaware of this list (thanks for sharing Hans Peter!), but I support your rationale, Chris. I was surprised about two things: 1. That there aren't that many MoUs in existence that predate 2016, and 2. That RIPE NCC signed one with my alma mater, the American University of Beirut (AUB). It's great that RIPE NCC is being transparent about the collaboration it is engaging in, and I warmly welcome this positive development. Best, -Michael __________________ Michael J. Oghia #Netgov consultant & researcher | editor Belgrade, Serbia Skype: mikeoghia Twitter *|* LinkedIn On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Nurani Nimpuno wrote: > Hi all, > > I personally think it is very useful for the RIPE NCC to establish these > relationships, but also to be transparent and open about them. An MoU is a > simple way of clarifying the relationship as well as being transparent > about it to the broader community. > > It?s very helpful to see the list of organisations the RIPE NCC has MoUs > with (I wasn?t aware of this page!). > > Keep up the good work. > > Thanks, > Nurani > > > > On 7 Nov 2017, at 10:18, Chris Buckridge wrote: > > > > Thank you, Hans Petter. > > > > To clarify, a report will be forthcoming to this list shortly on last > week?s ICANN event, and that will include announcement of the MoU with > EURALO (the goal being not to bombard the community with multiple emails). > > > > That said, I?m very happy to discuss the thinking behind the RIPE NCC?s > plans to establish agreements with third parties. In fact, it?s almost > exactly a year since we published an article regarding this on RIPE Labs: > > https://labs.ripe.net/Members/chrisb/building-and-documenting-stronger- > relationships-with-external-organisations > > > > Since then, we?ve been practicing our ?elevator pitch?, which might be > more useful in this instance: > > > > The RIPE NCC is looking to develop agreements (such as Memoranda of > Understanding) with third parties, including business associations, > community organisations and government bodies, for three reasons: > > > > 1. To identify opportunities to better cooperate on activities of mutual > benefit. Basically, the content of the specific agreement - what do we plan > to cooperate on, what are our common goals? > > > > 2. To build more robust relationships. While personal relationships are > important and can help establish organisational relationships, people move > jobs, positions change - formal agreements help ensure that those > organisational relationships remain clear and intact. > > > > 3. Transparency! The RIPE NCC has relationships with many different > kinds of organisations, and our membership and community have a legitimate > interest in what those relationships actually entail - by documenting what > we hope to achieve through these relationships in an MoU (or similar), we > provide greater transparency towards for our membership and community. > > > > > > As Hans Petter noted, all of the agreements that the RIPE NCC has made > are available on ripe.net: > > https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/engagement- > external-organisations > > > > With specific regard to the EURALO MoU, this was an agreement that both > EURALO and the RIPE NCC were very pleased to sign (and indeed, the RIPE NCC > is the last of the five RIRs to sign an MoU with their regional At-Large > association), and the ICANN meeting seemed the appropriate venue. Our > common interests, both in technical matters (e.g. raising awareness of the > need for IPv6 adoption) and more governance-related issues (e.g. support > for open, bottom-up, inclusive policymaking structures) are clear and > long-standing. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Chris Buckridge > > External Relations Manager > > RIPE NCC > > > > > > > >> On 6 Nov 2017, at 18:48, Hans Petter Holen wrote: > >> > >> The MOU is published here https://www.ripe.net/about-us/ > what-we-do/ncc-euralo-mou.pdf > >> > >> Together with other MOUs https://www.ripe.net/about-us/ > what-we-do/engagement-external-organisations > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 at 14:02, Michele Neylon - Blacknight < > michele at blacknight.com> wrote: > >> Alexander > >> > >> It was discussed briefly on the EURALO mailing list > >> > >> I've no idea what if any value it brings. > >> > >> Olivier might be able to enlighten us. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Michele > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Mr Michele Neylon > >> Blacknight Solutions > >> Hosting, Colocation & Domains > >> https://www.blacknight.com/ > >> http://blacknight.blog/ > >> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 > >> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 > >> Personal blog: https://michele.blog/ > >> Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ > >> ------------------------------- > >> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business > Park,Sleaty > >> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > >> ?On 02/11/2017, 06:31, "cooperation-wg on behalf of Alexander Isavnin" < > cooperation-wg-bounces at ripe.net on behalf of isavnin at gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> Congratulations! > >> > >> Another one MoU signed. RIPE NCC and EURALO. > >> I have really strange feeling about it. > >> Like my Right hand establishes Memorandum of Understanding with my > Left hand: as member of ISOC Russian Chapter which is member of EURALO do i > need to memorandumize understanding with me as representative of member of > RIPE NCC? > >> Do Axel Pawlik needs additional understanding with Olivier > Crepin-Leblond? > >> > >> And there are more questions: > >> What kind of additional understanding needed between such > organizations? > >> Why it 's so urgent to sign up MoU for 2 European organizations no > close to Europe than Abu-Dhabi? > >> How to measure reasonability of such memorandums? > >> > >> And even more, really important: > >> How to control effectiveness and outcome of such MoUs? > >> I have sad example of MoU with Russian Telco Ministry. > >> NOTHING done from Russian Ministry side. Ministry promises to > understand and promote RACI. Well, Ministry have educational institutions > of professional and high education. NO RACI submissions to ENOG programme > at all. > >> (also question effectiveness of RACI in region). > >> > >> So, i want to rise discussion about such MoUs. > >> I do not feel need of such MoUs just to do something, or demonstrate > "external relations" activities or demonstrate cooperation just to have > possibility to report on cooperation. > >> > >> In some cases "non-legal binding document" harmless for Europeans > could be dangerous for others: mentioned MoU with Russian telco ministry - > brings words "IP address" and "database" to official language of telco > regulator, dreaming of "enforced routing registry". > >> > >> There only one really important MoU - one around RIR system. > >> Having number of meaningless documents around really inflates > importance of that MoU. > >> > >> Also, no discussions prior and announcements were made. > >> Even no news is published, no possibility to see text of this MoU > (at this moment). > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> Alexander Isavnin > >> > >> Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> -- Hans Petter Holen Mobile +47 45 06 60 54 | hph at oslo.net | > http://hph.oslo.net > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.oghia at gmail.com Wed Nov 8 07:37:45 2017 From: mike.oghia at gmail.com (Michael J. Oghia) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 07:37:45 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] [IGF 2017] Questionnaire about communicating Internet governance Message-ID: Hi everyone, My colleagues, Agustina and Jelena, and I are conducting a survey for our IGF 2017 session (WS 161), and would appreciate your feedback. Thank you, -Michael Oghia ____________________ Dear fellow community members, Have you ever had difficulties explaining what Internet governance is to your friends and family? What is your magic answer to the question: *?OK, but what do you REALLY do??* If so, you?re not alone. We have been struggling with these types of questions for a long time, which is why we are trying to find a better way to communicate Internet governance. This is why we ? Agustina Callegari, Michael Oghia, and Jelena Ozegovic ? are hosting a collaborative workshop at IGF 2017 in order to discuss how we can communicate IG more effectively. To kick off the session, we need your help! We have created a questionnaire to help us shed light on this. Please take 5-10 minutes to anonymously share your wisdom and experience with us: *https://goo.gl/forms/t4mmgI6nHkNAFDF82* The questionnaire will close on: *10 December 2017*. The results of this questionnaire will be presented on 20 December 2017 in Geneva at the IGF as part of our workshop: WS 161 ? Explaining Internet governance to friends & family 101: How to improve our communication? *You also have the option to leave your email address at the end of the questionnaire in case you would like to know the results, which we will share after the IGF.* Let us know if you have any questions by replying to this email. Thank you in advance! -Agustina, Michael, and Jelena WS 161 organizers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.oghia at gmail.com Mon Nov 13 10:04:40 2017 From: mike.oghia at gmail.com (Michael J. Oghia) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 10:04:40 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Sustainability at RIPE 75 Message-ID: Hi everyone, Earlier this year, I began the endeavor to build bridges between the Internet governance / infrastructure community(ies) and the sustainable ICT academic and research community. In many ways, current Internet technology is not sustainable. This relates to overall lack of design consideration of ICTs for sustainability (such as recycling or energy scaling), and includes issues such as pollution, electronic waste (e-waste), and energy use. Dr. Mike Hazas was one of the first people who inspired me to do more work in this field, and he was the keynote speaker at a EuroDIG roundtable workshop on sustainable Internet access held in June. After the session, he connected with members of RIPE NCC's external relations team who encouraged him to apply for one of the academic fellowships (RACI) to attend RIPE 75 in Dubai, and I am delighted to share his presentation and lecture: Mike Hazas, Lancaster University, UK Internet Services and Energy Demand https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/154 I encourage everyone to continue to consider sustainability in all of its forms going forward, and encourage discussions around this topic. Thank you, -Michael __________________ Michael J. Oghia #Netgov consultant & researcher | editor Belgrade, Serbia Skype: mikeoghia Twitter *|* LinkedIn ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gergana Petrova Date: Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:54 AM Subject: [RACI-list] RACI: Apply for Spring 2018 + Review of Autumn Presentations To: raci-list at ripe.net Dear all, A short reminder for the RACI call for applications for our four meetings in spring 2018: MENOG 18 (TBC): Apply by 28 January 2018 RIPE 76 (14-18 May, Marseille): Apply by 11 March 2018 ENOG 15 (4-5 June, Moscow): Apply by 1 April 2018 SEE 7 (18-19 June, Timisoara): Apply by 15 April 2018 If you are working on interesting research or know someone in your network who is, you can find more information and the application form here: http://ripe.net/raci/ As always, successful applicants will receive complimentary tickets, travel and accommodation to the meetings. Also, below you would find a list of the RACI presentations delivered at RIPE 75 in Budapest. Enjoy! Farzad Ebrahimi, Internet of Things Academy of Iran, Iran Key Factors for the Successful Entry of Developing Countries into the Internet of Things https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/135 Ivana Tomic, Imperial College London, UK Trusted Routing in the Internet of Things https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/134 Juan Brenes, Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, Spain Power Prefixes Prioritization for Smarter BGP Reconvergence https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/150 Mike Hazas, Lancaster University, UK Internet Services and Energy Demand https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/154 Nuno Garcia, Universidade da Beira Interior, Portugal Lessons Learned from Ten Years of Measurements in Internet Traffic ? a New, Almost-Reliable UDP Protocol https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/118 Richard Cziva, University of Glasgow / REANNZ, UK Ruru: Real-Time Wide-Area TCP Latency Monitoring https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/92 Sara Solmone, University of East London, UK Establishing Jurisdiction Online: The Problem of the Access-Based Jurisdictional Principle https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/102 Uta Meier-Hahn, Humboldt Institute for Internet and Society, Germany Creating Connectivity. How Networkers Manufacture the Good of the Internet https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/101 Vasileios Giotsas, UCSD/TU Berlin, Greece Detecting Peering Infrastructure Outages in the Wild https://ripe75.ripe.net/archives/video/124 A list of all past RACI presentations is available here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/raci/alumni Please let me know if you have any questions about RACI or about applying. And thank you in advance for your help in spreading the word to your networks! Best regards, Gergana -- Gergana Petrova External Relations RIPE Network Coordination Centre @RACI_RIPE https://www.ripe.net/raci/linkedin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chrisb at ripe.net Mon Nov 13 12:32:51 2017 From: chrisb at ripe.net (Chris Buckridge) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 12:32:51 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] ICANN 60 Update: RIPE NCC and EURALO Sign MoU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34DA8119-164E-4557-8084-37D5717C4434@ripe.net> Dear colleagues, Following is a brief report on the RIPE NCC?s participation in the ICANN 60 meeting. Many others in the RIPE community are also involved in ICANN discussions, and it would be useful to hear how those might be relevant to the RIPE community. Happy to answer any questions that might come out of this report. This report is also available online at: https://www.ripe.net/publications/news/industry-developments/icann-60-update-ripe-ncc-and-euralo-sign-mou Best regards, Chris Buckridge External Relations Manager RIPE NCC ------ The ICANN 60 Annual General Meeting took place from 23 October to 3 November in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates, starting just a day after the RIPE 75 Meeting wrapped up in Dubai. The event marked the first full ICANN meeting in the Middle East and an opportunity for to meet and engage with Internet stakeholders from that region and beyond. While ICANN policy discussions have been relatively light on number-related discussions, particularly since the conclusion of the IANA stewardship transition in 2016, staff from the RIPE NCC, RIPE community members and others from the global number community took part at ICANN 60, with the focus on a number of specific topics and events throughout the week. - RIPE NCC and EURALO Sign MoU The RIPE NCC signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoUs) with ICANN?s European Regional At-Large Organization (EURALO). The MoU formalises the long-standing cooperative relationship between the RIPE NCC and EURALO (and it?s participants), and highlights key areas of common interest, including IPv6 awareness raising and the promotion of bottom-up, open, inclusive policy-making processes. You can also find the full text of the MoUs, along with the other agreements we have with external organisations, on our website: https://www.ripe.net/about-us/what-we-do/engagement-external-organisations - EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) Implementation The European Union's impending data protection regulation implementation was the subject of much discussion at ICANN 60, with the ICANN Board acknowledging that the GDPR will have an impact on ICANN Whois registrations, in terms of the kind of data that can be retained and made publicly accessible. ICANN itself is investigating what compliance will mean for their organisation. The GDPR may also have significant impact on any ICANN-related registries and registrars that have EU-based customers/registrants. This is a topic that also affects the RIPE NCC, and RIPE NCC staff had the opportunity to discuss the GDPR directly with ICANN staff and Board members. The RIPE NCC has been preparing for the implementation of the GDPR for some time, and we will be sharing a more detailed discussion of the anticipated impact via RIPE Labs in the near future. - Discussion of Emerging Identifiers While much of the ICANN meeting agenda was focused on ICANN operational and policy issues, there were a number of sessions devoted to related technical developments. This included a session on emerging identifiers, with discussion of technologies including blockchain, Digital Object Architecture (DOA) and related developments, including the possibility of applying blockchain technology to registry functions. Presentations from the session and a video archive are available at: https://schedule.icann.org/event/CbFe/emerging-identifiers-technology The next ICANN Meeting will take place in San Juan, Puerto Rico in March 2018: https://meetings.icann.org/en/sanjuan61 From isavnin at gmail.com Wed Nov 15 15:51:42 2017 From: isavnin at gmail.com (Alexander Isavnin) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2017 15:51:42 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Another one MoU bites the dust In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ?What do you mean, why?s it got to be signed?? ?It?s a MoU. You?ve got to sign MoUs.? Dear Michele, Hans Petter, Chris! Thank you for your replies. Dear Hans Petter, thank you for sending link to NCC Engagement page. I am aware of this page, and checked it when noticed MoU signing in ICANN60 Programme, i'v checked it on the date of signing, day after (when i wrote my first e-mail) - there was nothing about this MoU on that page. Text appeared on a date of your e-mail, and description and link to announcement - two weeks after - on 13th of November. A bit delayed transparency. And i have to confess - i am aware of this page because i had to ask a lot of questions to NCC, and generally curious to check what's behind "Beware of the Leopard" signs. Even such outstanding and communicating member of community like Nurani was not aware of such page on website. Dear Michele! Thank you for confirmation about discussion of this MoU by EURALO members. Exactly this information was inspiration for writing my questions. I even know, that MoU between 2 european organizations was signed in Abu-Dhabi, BECAUSE it had to signed in Copenhagen, but EURALO was discussing it's with members. Chris! Thank you for your reply. Actually i was expecting you to answer something like "NCC Managing Director allowed to sign everything he wants, look at corporate governance". Thank you for longer reply, even it does not answer most of my questions. I was checking ripe discussion list, NCC membership list, cooperation WD list, minutes of all WGs trying to find any discussion of this MoU. I got nothing. (well, maybe i was not accurate enough, you may send me a link to such discussion). So, EURALO discussed such MoU, but some NCC executive decided that NCC members (and community behind) do not deserve such discussion. Excellent corporate governance and accountability. Let me propose forward transparency. If something is going to happen in name of Association on behalf of it's members, let's announce it BEFORE it happened. Maybe there will be suggestions or objections. Somebody could point to reputational risks, reasonability and effectiveness of MoU can be discussed. Now some activities are presented in a way "So we did it, eat it with porridge" (Russian saying about completely useless or dangerous activity, you can do nothing about already) Clarifying relationships, communicating, externally relating just for demonstrating activity (and asking for more FTEs afterwards) is not enough. More suggestions? Kind regards, Alexander Isavnin Sent via RIPE Forum -- https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum From mir at ripe.net Tue Nov 21 11:26:13 2017 From: mir at ripe.net (Mirjam Kuehne) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2017 11:26:13 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] New on RIPE Labs: How We're Implementing the GDPR Message-ID: Dear colleagues, This is the first in a series of articles we plan to publish on RIPE Labs over the coming weeks and months, each of which will provide details of any legal analysis we perform in the implementation of the GDPR in the RIPE Database, and any other RIPE NCC services: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/Athina/how-we-re-implementing-the-gdpr Kind regards, Mirjam K?hne RIPE NCC