From nurani at netnod.se Thu Sep 15 11:00:10 2016 From: nurani at netnod.se (Nurani Nimpuno) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 11:00:10 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Fwd: [NRO-IANAXFER] Articles on the US Senate Hearing References: Message-ID: FYI. Nurani > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Izumi Okutani > Subject: [NRO-IANAXFER] Articles on the US Senate Hearing > Date: 15 september 2016 06:10:30 CEST > To: "ianaxfer at nro.net" > > FYI. > > Several articles published after the Hearing conducted by the US Senate Committee on Judiciary on 14th September, Chaired by Ted Cruz. > You can also see the video and statements of each panelist at the Hearing from the website. > > Protecting Internet Freedom: Implications of Ending U.S. Oversight of the Internet > http://www.judiciary.senate.gov/meetings/protecting-internet-freedom-implications-of-ending-us-oversight-of-the-internet > > > * Politifact: > Ted Cruz incorrect about Obama giving control of internet to UN-like body > * Reuters: > Blocking Internet oversight transition a 'gift to Russia': Obama administration > * Dallas Morning News: > Cruz fights to keep internet domains under U.S. control as critics decry move as misguided > * Financial Times: > Republicans lash out at US plan to cede Internet control (subcribers only) > * Politico: > Cruz: Obama officials could face jail for internet ?handover? > White House: Cruz stand on ICANN 'ironic' (subcribers only) > > Izumi Okutani > > > _______________________________________________ > ianaxfer mailing list > ianaxfer at nro.net > https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/ianaxfer From julf at julf.com Thu Sep 15 15:44:12 2016 From: julf at julf.com (Johan Helsingius) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:44:12 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Fwd: [NRO-IANAXFER] Articles on the US Senate Hearing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> On 15-09-16 11:00, Nurani Nimpuno wrote: > FYI. Thanks, Nurani - it has become a veritable soap opera... Julf From jim at rfc1035.com Thu Sep 15 16:06:30 2016 From: jim at rfc1035.com (Jim Reid) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:06:30 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Yesterday's US Senate Hearing In-Reply-To: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> References: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> Message-ID: <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> > On 15 Sep 2016, at 14:44, Johan Helsingius wrote: > > it has become a veritable soap opera... I thought it always was a soap opera. FWIW I watched yesterday?s hearing. [Yes, I need to get out more.] Cruz?s conduct was disgraceful and shameless. His whatabootery was off the scale. Strickling and Marby were asked questions equivalent to ?is it true you?ve stopped battering your wife??. They carefully avoided rising to his bait. Cruz?s sock puppets were asked ?do you agree it will be bad if Russia, Iran and China get control of the Internet??. Cruz threatened NTIA staff and accused them of breaking the law. Elected politicians simply shouldn?t attack blameless civil servants like that and certainly not in public. He was pursuing his own flawed agenda and ignored anything that contradicted that. His starting assumption is/was remarkable: USG is compelled to uphold the US First Amendment (free speech) and that somehow this extends to ICANN because of the IANA contract with NTIA. Much as it pains me to say this, Kieren?s article in The Register absolutely nails it: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/14/ted_cruz_in_wrongheaded_internet_crusade/ From jim at rfc1035.com Thu Sep 15 16:33:40 2016 From: jim at rfc1035.com (Jim Reid) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:33:40 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] whatabootery Message-ID: <581DC55F-D6E1-4239-9C63-77DD6A693CF4@rfc1035.com> I understand this word may need translation into English. Much like my accent I hear you say. :-) Whatabootery is a Glasgow expression for the practice of raising non-sequiturs, particularly when trying to divert attention from inconvenient truths: what about... From julf at julf.com Thu Sep 15 16:45:49 2016 From: julf at julf.com (Johan Helsingius) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 16:45:49 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Yesterday's US Senate Hearing In-Reply-To: <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> References: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: Jim, > FWIW I watched yesterday?s hearing. I couldn't stomach all of it, I had to save some of it for later. But if you thought that was bad, you clearly haven't been following #ICANN on twitter for the last week or so... :-/ Julf From jim at rfc1035.com Thu Sep 15 16:53:17 2016 From: jim at rfc1035.com (Jim Reid) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:53:17 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Yesterday's US Senate Hearing In-Reply-To: References: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: > On 15 Sep 2016, at 15:45, Johan Helsingius wrote: > > But if you thought that was bad, you clearly haven't been following > #ICANN on twitter for the last week or so... :-/ Obviously. What?s twitter? From nurani at netnod.se Thu Sep 15 17:11:54 2016 From: nurani at netnod.se (Nurani Nimpuno) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 17:11:54 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Yesterday's US Senate Hearing In-Reply-To: <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> References: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: <0A1C7216-C178-4882-B0AA-3B48AD9BC1FD@netnod.se> > On 15 Sep 2016, at 16:06, Jim Reid wrote: > > >> On 15 Sep 2016, at 14:44, Johan Helsingius wrote: >> >> it has become a veritable soap opera... > > I thought it always was a soap opera. > > FWIW I watched yesterday?s hearing. [Yes, I need to get out more.] Cruz?s conduct was disgraceful and shameless. His whatabootery was off the scale. > > Strickling and Marby were asked questions equivalent to ?is it true you?ve stopped battering your wife??. They carefully avoided rising to his bait. Cruz?s sock puppets were asked ?do you agree it will be bad if Russia, Iran and China get control of the Internet??. Cruz threatened NTIA staff and accused them of breaking the law. Elected politicians simply shouldn?t attack blameless civil servants like that and certainly not in public. Agreed. I was glad to see that they didn't get sucked into trying to answer some of those rather absurd questions. > He was pursuing his own flawed agenda and ignored anything that contradicted that. His starting assumption is/was remarkable: USG is compelled to uphold the US First Amendment (free speech) and that somehow this extends to ICANN because of the IANA contract with NTIA. Indeed. I must at that I thought both Strickling and DelBianco were brilliant. I have never seen Strickling quite so animated. Their explanations were clear and straightforward and very eloquent. But clear explanation of the facts only works on people who are interested in understanding the facts of course. Let's hope reason prevails. :) > Much as it pains me to say this, Kieren?s article in The Register absolutely nails it: > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/14/ted_cruz_in_wrongheaded_internet_crusade/ I also share your pain. :) Nurani > From mike.oghia at gmail.com Fri Sep 16 10:58:13 2016 From: mike.oghia at gmail.com (Michael Oghia) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 10:58:13 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Yesterday's US Senate Hearing In-Reply-To: <0A1C7216-C178-4882-B0AA-3B48AD9BC1FD@netnod.se> References: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> <0A1C7216-C178-4882-B0AA-3B48AD9BC1FD@netnod.se> Message-ID: To be completely frank, as a US citizen living in Europe, I could not be more disgusted with Cruz's behavior. Even though I try to stay as politically neutral as possible, I am more than happy to express my feelings about this because I can and should criticize someone misrepresenting my passport country and spreading false information as he does. I'm sincerely sorry you have to witness this spectacle. It is beyond embarrassing. -Michael On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Nurani Nimpuno wrote: > > > On 15 Sep 2016, at 16:06, Jim Reid wrote: > > > > > >> On 15 Sep 2016, at 14:44, Johan Helsingius wrote: > >> > >> it has become a veritable soap opera... > > > > I thought it always was a soap opera. > > > > FWIW I watched yesterday?s hearing. [Yes, I need to get out more.] > Cruz?s conduct was disgraceful and shameless. His whatabootery was off the > scale. > > > > Strickling and Marby were asked questions equivalent to ?is it true > you?ve stopped battering your wife??. They carefully avoided rising to his > bait. Cruz?s sock puppets were asked ?do you agree it will be bad if > Russia, Iran and China get control of the Internet??. Cruz threatened NTIA > staff and accused them of breaking the law. Elected politicians simply > shouldn?t attack blameless civil servants like that and certainly not in > public. > > Agreed. I was glad to see that they didn't get sucked into trying to > answer some of those rather absurd questions. > > > He was pursuing his own flawed agenda and ignored anything that > contradicted that. His starting assumption is/was remarkable: USG is > compelled to uphold the US First Amendment (free speech) and that somehow > this extends to ICANN because of the IANA contract with NTIA. > > Indeed. I must at that I thought both Strickling and DelBianco were > brilliant. I have never seen Strickling quite so animated. > > Their explanations were clear and straightforward and very eloquent. But > clear explanation of the facts only works on people who are interested in > understanding the facts of course. Let's hope reason prevails. :) > > > Much as it pains me to say this, Kieren?s article in The Register > absolutely nails it: > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/14/ted_cruz_in_wronghea > ded_internet_crusade/ > > I also share your pain. :) > > Nurani > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michele at blacknight.com Fri Sep 16 11:03:42 2016 From: michele at blacknight.com (Michele Neylon - Blacknight) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 09:03:42 +0000 Subject: [cooperation-wg] whatabootery In-Reply-To: <581DC55F-D6E1-4239-9C63-77DD6A693CF4@rfc1035.com> References: <581DC55F-D6E1-4239-9C63-77DD6A693CF4@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: I was about to Google it ? -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social Random Stuff: http://michele.irish ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 On 15/09/2016, 15:33, "cooperation-wg on behalf of Jim Reid" wrote: I understand this word may need translation into English. Much like my accent I hear you say. :-) Whatabootery is a Glasgow expression for the practice of raising non-sequiturs, particularly when trying to divert attention from inconvenient truths: what about... From michele at blacknight.com Fri Sep 16 11:05:21 2016 From: michele at blacknight.com (Michele Neylon - Blacknight) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 09:05:21 +0000 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Yesterday's US Senate Hearing In-Reply-To: <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> References: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> Message-ID: <9D4F8B72-4B7C-480E-9A12-B383C5E8EA0B@blacknight.com> The attack on NTIA staff was deplorable. I don?t think a European politician would ever do anything like that in public. The questions Cruz asked of Marby were insane ? the battering your wife analogy is pretty damn close! Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation & Domains http://www.blacknight.host/ http://blacknight.blog/ http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Social: http://mneylon.social Random Stuff: http://michele.irish ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From ocl at gih.com Fri Sep 16 11:41:45 2016 From: ocl at gih.com (Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 11:41:45 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Yesterday's US Senate Hearing In-Reply-To: References: <7e53cf0f-ba19-41bc-1309-c18229988892@julf.com> <76E9C899-F871-48CC-B7CF-80A8DAA932C5@rfc1035.com> <0A1C7216-C178-4882-B0AA-3B48AD9BC1FD@netnod.se> Message-ID: <8a55095f-c14d-c656-67a1-2496c1614604@gih.com> ...and I used to think "House of Cards" was fiction. Kindest regards, Olivier On 16/09/2016 10:58, Michael Oghia wrote: > To be completely frank, as a US citizen living in Europe, I could not > be more disgusted with Cruz's behavior. Even though I try to stay as > politically neutral as possible, I am more than happy to express my > feelings about this because I can and should criticize someone > misrepresenting my passport country and spreading false information as > he does. > > I'm sincerely sorry you have to witness this spectacle. It is > beyond embarrassing. > > -Michael > > On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Nurani Nimpuno > wrote: > > > > On 15 Sep 2016, at 16:06, Jim Reid > wrote: > > > > > >> On 15 Sep 2016, at 14:44, Johan Helsingius > wrote: > >> > >> it has become a veritable soap opera... > > > > I thought it always was a soap opera. > > > > FWIW I watched yesterday?s hearing. [Yes, I need to get out > more.] Cruz?s conduct was disgraceful and shameless. His > whatabootery was off the scale. > > > > Strickling and Marby were asked questions equivalent to ?is it > true you?ve stopped battering your wife??. They carefully avoided > rising to his bait. Cruz?s sock puppets were asked ?do you agree > it will be bad if Russia, Iran and China get control of the > Internet??. Cruz threatened NTIA staff and accused them of > breaking the law. Elected politicians simply shouldn?t attack > blameless civil servants like that and certainly not in public. > > Agreed. I was glad to see that they didn't get sucked into trying > to answer some of those rather absurd questions. > > > He was pursuing his own flawed agenda and ignored anything that > contradicted that. His starting assumption is/was remarkable: USG > is compelled to uphold the US First Amendment (free speech) and > that somehow this extends to ICANN because of the IANA contract > with NTIA. > > Indeed. I must at that I thought both Strickling and DelBianco > were brilliant. I have never seen Strickling quite so animated. > > Their explanations were clear and straightforward and very > eloquent. But clear explanation of the facts only works on people > who are interested in understanding the facts of course. Let's > hope reason prevails. :) > > > Much as it pains me to say this, Kieren?s article in The > Register absolutely nails it: > > > > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/14/ted_cruz_in_wrongheaded_internet_crusade/ > > > I also share your pain. :) > > Nurani > > > > > > -- Olivier MJ Cr?pin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu Fri Sep 16 18:14:02 2016 From: Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu (Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:14:02 +0000 Subject: [cooperation-wg] President Juncker "State of the union 2016" and "Connectivity package" Message-ID: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B2003FB@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> Dear group members, This week President Juncker gave (on Wedensday) the 2016 State of the Union address. You can find the whole text here: www.ec.europa.eu/soteu The Digital Single Market is a key priority for this Commission. Below you can find also the press release relative to improved internet connectivity for all citizens and businesses in Europe. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-3008_en.htm On this occasion the Commission proposed an ambitious overhaul of EU telecoms rules with new initiatives to meet Europeans' growing connectivity needs and boost Europe's competitiveness. These proposals will encourage investment in very high-capacity networks and accelerate public access to Wi-Fi for Europeans. Documents adopted: Communication and Staff Working Document - Connectivity for a Competitive Digital Single Market - towards a European Gigabit Society Action Plan and Staff Working Document Communication - 5G for Europe European Electronic Communication Code Regulation on the Body of European Regulators of Electronic Communications (BEREC) Regulation on the promotion of Internet connectivity in local communities and public spaces (WiFi4EU) In view of preparing the Madrid meeting, could you please signal which EU developments (if any) would be most interesting to discuss. Achilleas Achilleas Kemos Programme Officer - Future Connectivity Systems DG CONNECT European Commission -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From corinnecath at gmail.com Sun Sep 18 10:12:07 2016 From: corinnecath at gmail.com (Corinne Cath) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 09:12:07 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] cooperation-wg Digest, Vol 56, Issue 4 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you for sharing Achilleas! Related to this, I recently wrote a blog for ARTICLE 19 about the promises and perils of 5G and what civil society do to ensure that human rights play a central role in its development. Might be of interest. https://www.article19.org/join-the-debate.php/252/view/ Best, On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 11:00 AM, wrote: > Send cooperation-wg mailing list submissions to > cooperation-wg at ripe.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/cooperation-wg > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cooperation-wg-request at ripe.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cooperation-wg-owner at ripe.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cooperation-wg digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. President Juncker "State of the union 2016" and "Connectivity > package" (Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2016 16:14:02 +0000 > From: > To: > Subject: [cooperation-wg] President Juncker "State of the union 2016" > and "Connectivity package" > Message-ID: > <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B2003FB at S-DC-ESTG02-J. > net1.cec.eu.int> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear group members, > > This week President Juncker gave (on Wedensday) the 2016 State of the > Union address. You can find the whole text here: > > www.ec.europa.eu/soteu > > The Digital Single Market is a key priority for this Commission. Below you > can find also the press release relative to improved internet connectivity > for all citizens and businesses in Europe. > > http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-3008_en.htm > > On this occasion the Commission proposed an ambitious overhaul of EU > telecoms rules with new initiatives to meet Europeans' growing connectivity > needs and boost Europe's competitiveness. These proposals will encourage > investment in very high-capacity networks and accelerate public access to > Wi-Fi for Europeans. > > Documents adopted: > > Communication and Staff Working Document - Connectivity for a Competitive > Digital Single Market - towards a European Gigabit Society< > https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/news-redirect/34110> > > Action Plan and Staff Working Document Communication - 5G for Europe< > https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/news-redirect/34115> > > European Electronic Communication Code digital-single-market/news-redirect/34112> > > Regulation on the Body of European Regulators of Electronic Communications > (BEREC) > > Regulation on the promotion of Internet connectivity in local communities > and public spaces (WiFi4EU) single-market/news-redirect/34228> > In view of preparing the Madrid meeting, could you please signal which EU > developments (if any) would be most interesting to discuss. > > Achilleas > > Achilleas Kemos > Programme Officer - Future Connectivity Systems > DG CONNECT > European Commission > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: attachments/20160916/3258122c/attachment-0001.html> > > End of cooperation-wg Digest, Vol 56, Issue 4 > ********************************************* > -- Corinne J.N. Cath -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mir at ripe.net Tue Sep 20 16:06:10 2016 From: mir at ripe.net (Mirjam Kuehne) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2016 16:06:10 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] New on RIPE Labs: What Do Network Operators Sell to Each Other? In-Reply-To: <5883e226-d18b-e8cf-5ce7-ce2f36db6f97@ripe.net> References: <5883e226-d18b-e8cf-5ce7-ce2f36db6f97@ripe.net> Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Please find this new article on RIPE Labs contributed by Uta Meier-Hahn: What Do Network Operators Sell to Each Other? https://labs.ripe.net/Members/uta_meier_hahn/what-do-network-operators-sell-to-each-other Kind regards, Mirjam Kuehne RIPE NCC From marcoh at ripe.net Wed Sep 21 16:36:09 2016 From: marcoh at ripe.net (Marco Hogewoning) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 16:36:09 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] =?utf-8?q?RIPE_NCC=27s_Response_to_CWG-Internet_?= =?utf-8?q?Open_Consultation_=22Building_an_enabling_environment_for_acces?= =?utf-8?q?s_to_the_Internet=E2=80=9D?= Message-ID: <43F7FC7F-0A52-44B8-A156-6B94125340E9@ripe.net> Dear colleagues, In response to the ITU Council Working Group on International Internet-related Public Policy Issues (CWG-Internet)?s open consultation ?Building an enabling environment for access to the Internet?, we have prepared and submitted the attached contribution on behalf of the RIPE NCC. In our submission we emphasise the need for IPv6 and highlighted the ongoing coordinated efforts by all stakeholders to expedite the deployment of IPv6 in their networks, services and products. Should you have any questions regarding this consultation or our contribution, please do not hesitate to contact me or one of my colleagues. Regards, Marco Hogewoning External Relations RIPE NCC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: RIPE NCC?s Response to the CWG.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 45454 bytes Desc: not available URL: From collin at measurementlab.net Wed Sep 21 17:11:07 2016 From: collin at measurementlab.net (Collin Anderson) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2016 11:11:07 -0400 Subject: [cooperation-wg] =?utf-8?q?RIPE_NCC=27s_Response_to_CWG-Internet_?= =?utf-8?q?Open_Consultation_=22Building_an_enabling_environment_fo?= =?utf-8?q?r_access_to_the_Internet=E2=80=9D?= In-Reply-To: <43F7FC7F-0A52-44B8-A156-6B94125340E9@ripe.net> References: <43F7FC7F-0A52-44B8-A156-6B94125340E9@ripe.net> Message-ID: Thanks for sharing this Marco, Appears that a diversity of stakeholders have contributed to this process, and some of the comments that I've read through have been interesting (if only for who replied). Submissions: http://www.itu.int/en/council/cwg-internet/Pages/consultation-feb2016.aspx If I can put one thing on the CWG-Internet radar aside from IPv6, measurement systems such as RIPE Atlas should also have a place in building an enabling environment ? something that is less likely to be covered by other non-commercial or governmental comments. Would it be worthwhile to also promote measurement of access in such forums? Cordially, Collin On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Marco Hogewoning wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > In response to the ITU Council Working Group on International > Internet-related Public Policy Issues (CWG-Internet)?s open consultation > ?Building an enabling environment for access to the Internet?, we have > prepared and submitted the attached contribution on behalf of the RIPE NCC. > > In our submission we emphasise the need for IPv6 and highlighted the > ongoing coordinated efforts by all stakeholders to expedite the deployment > of IPv6 in their networks, services and products. > > Should you have any questions regarding this consultation or our > contribution, please do not hesitate to contact me or one of my colleagues. > > Regards, > > Marco Hogewoning > > External Relations > RIPE NCC > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.oghia at gmail.com Thu Sep 22 08:21:36 2016 From: mike.oghia at gmail.com (Michael Oghia) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 08:21:36 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] =?utf-8?q?RIPE_NCC=27s_Response_to_CWG-Internet_?= =?utf-8?q?Open_Consultation_=22Building_an_enabling_environment_fo?= =?utf-8?q?r_access_to_the_Internet=E2=80=9D?= In-Reply-To: References: <43F7FC7F-0A52-44B8-A156-6B94125340E9@ripe.net> Message-ID: Hi Collin, I definitely think so. Especially if we can help translate why it isn't merely a technical function. That is, the Atlas program has many implications for business, civil society, and government as well -- each for different reasons. And it will only expand as more probes and anchors come online. Best, -Michael __________________ Michael J. Oghia iGmena communications manager 2016 ISOC IGF returning ambassador Independent #netgov consultant & editor Belgrade, Serbia Skype: mikeoghia Twitter *|* LinkedIn On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Collin Anderson wrote: > Thanks for sharing this Marco, > > Appears that a diversity of stakeholders have contributed to this process, > and some of the comments that I've read through have been interesting (if > only for who replied). > > Submissions: http://www.itu.int/en/council/cwg-internet/ > Pages/consultation-feb2016.aspx > > If I can put one thing on the CWG-Internet radar aside from IPv6, > measurement systems such as RIPE Atlas should also have a place in building > an enabling environment ? something that is less likely to be covered by > other non-commercial or governmental comments. Would it be worthwhile to > also promote measurement of access in such forums? > > Cordially, > Collin > > > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Marco Hogewoning > wrote: > >> Dear colleagues, >> >> In response to the ITU Council Working Group on International >> Internet-related Public Policy Issues (CWG-Internet)?s open consultation >> ?Building an enabling environment for access to the Internet?, we have >> prepared and submitted the attached contribution on behalf of the RIPE NCC. >> >> In our submission we emphasise the need for IPv6 and highlighted the >> ongoing coordinated efforts by all stakeholders to expedite the deployment >> of IPv6 in their networks, services and products. >> >> Should you have any questions regarding this consultation or our >> contribution, please do not hesitate to contact me or one of my colleagues. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marco Hogewoning >> >> External Relations >> RIPE NCC >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcoh at ripe.net Thu Sep 22 13:22:12 2016 From: marcoh at ripe.net (Marco Hogewoning) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2016 13:22:12 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] =?utf-8?q?RIPE_NCC=27s_Response_to_CWG-Internet_?= =?utf-8?q?Open_Consultation_=22Building_an_enabling_environment_for_acces?= =?utf-8?q?s_to_the_Internet=E2=80=9D?= In-Reply-To: References: <43F7FC7F-0A52-44B8-A156-6B94125340E9@ripe.net> Message-ID: <776D01E8-D1F7-40E7-943B-8B46501FDBE2@ripe.net> Dear Collin, Thanks for your suggestion and we certainly will consider promoting RIPE Atlas in these type of consultations where we see fit. The reason we chose not to include it in this particular response is that while RIPE Atlas can certainly help in assessing certain parameters that would be considered ?quality?, including connectivity (and loss thereof), it is difficult to determine the cause of such disruptions in relation to the Internet access product. With this in mind and the intention to keep our submission brief, we decided to not mention RIPE Atlas this time. But we will again consider it for other contributions where it fits in. Of course we do bring RIPE Atlas to the attention of policy makers in other discussions and fora when in scope, such as the Internet Governance Forum and our engagement with organisations such as OECD and the ITU. Regards, Marco Hogewoning -- External Relations - RIPE NCC > On 21 Sep 2016, at 17:11, Collin Anderson wrote: > > Thanks for sharing this Marco, > > Appears that a diversity of stakeholders have contributed to this process, and some of the comments that I've read through have been interesting (if only for who replied). > > Submissions: http://www.itu.int/en/council/cwg-internet/Pages/consultation-feb2016.aspx > > If I can put one thing on the CWG-Internet radar aside from IPv6, measurement systems such as RIPE Atlas should also have a place in building an enabling environment ? something that is less likely to be covered by other non-commercial or governmental comments. Would it be worthwhile to also promote measurement of access in such forums? > > Cordially, > Collin > > > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2016 at 10:36 AM, Marco Hogewoning wrote: > Dear colleagues, > > In response to the ITU Council Working Group on International Internet-related Public Policy Issues (CWG-Internet)?s open consultation ?Building an enabling environment for access to the Internet?, we have prepared and submitted the attached contribution on behalf of the RIPE NCC. > > In our submission we emphasise the need for IPv6 and highlighted the ongoing coordinated efforts by all stakeholders to expedite the deployment of IPv6 in their networks, services and products. > > Should you have any questions regarding this consultation or our contribution, please do not hesitate to contact me or one of my colleagues. > > Regards, > > Marco Hogewoning > > External Relations > RIPE NCC > From Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu Mon Sep 26 22:23:52 2016 From: Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu (Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 20:23:52 +0000 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG Message-ID: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> Dear group members, Our meeting at RIPE73 is just one month away and we are in the process of finalising the agenda. If you would like to suggest a topic for discussion or have a presentation you have or would like to see presented, please get in touch with us. Best regards, Julf & Achilleas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de Wed Sep 28 09:36:25 2016 From: Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de (Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 07:36:25 +0000 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG In-Reply-To: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> References: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> Message-ID: <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> I would like to suggest: Ipv6 deployment status in EU govs - I can bring our part "de.gov and subsequent adressspace planning, routing, using profiles"-10 min - Status of testa ng and ISA 2 from EU COM and Germany Messages from cooperation wg to IGF in Mexico - We can talk about IGF Germany Constanze Constanze B?rger Masters Degree in Computer Science Federal Ministry of the Interior Division ITI5 IT and Network Infrastructures in the public administration address Alt-Moabit 140, D 10557 Berlin phone +49 30 18 681-10617 E-Mail Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de Von: cooperation-wg [mailto:cooperation-wg-bounces at ripe.net] Im Auftrag von Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu Gesendet: Montag, 26. September 2016 22:24 An: cooperation-wg at ripe.net Betreff: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG Dear group members, Our meeting at RIPE73 is just one month away and we are in the process of finalising the agenda. If you would like to suggest a topic for discussion or have a presentation you have or would like to see presented, please get in touch with us. Best regards, Julf & Achilleas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 09:59:08 2016 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 09:59:08 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG In-Reply-To: <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> References: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> Message-ID: <5D44DA19-7CA4-47DC-8C44-5FD2FD9D5B9F@gmail.com> And IPv6 deployment in the European institutions, especially the Commission? Gordon > On 28 Sep 2016, at 09:36, Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de wrote: > > I would like to suggest: > Ipv6 deployment status in EU govs > - I can bring our part > ?de.gov and subsequent adressspace planning, routing, using profiles?-10 min > - Status of testa ng and ISA 2 from EU COM and Germany > Messages from cooperation wg to IGF in Mexico > - We can talk about IGF Germany > Constanze > > Constanze B?rger > Masters Degree in Computer Science > Federal Ministry of the Interior > Division ITI5 > IT and Network Infrastructures in the public administration > ADDRESS Alt-Moabit 140, D 10557 Berlin > PHONE +49 30 18 681-10617 > E-MAIL Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de > > > Von: cooperation-wg [mailto:cooperation-wg-bounces at ripe.net ] Im Auftrag von Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu > Gesendet: Montag, 26. September 2016 22:24 > An: cooperation-wg at ripe.net > Betreff: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG > > Dear group members, > > Our meeting at RIPE73 is just one month away and we are in the process of finalising the agenda. > > If you would like to suggest a topic for discussion or have a presentation you have or would like to see presented, please get in touch with us. > > Best regards, > > Julf & Achilleas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bastiaan.goslings at ams-ix.net Wed Sep 28 11:25:23 2016 From: bastiaan.goslings at ams-ix.net (Bastiaan Goslings) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:25:23 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG In-Reply-To: <5D44DA19-7CA4-47DC-8C44-5FD2FD9D5B9F@gmail.com> References: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> <5D44DA19-7CA4-47DC-8C44-5FD2FD9D5B9F@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sure, why not IPv6. Always good. I cannot be in Madrid myself, but I think the EC intentions to reform the copyright protection regime are of interest to the group. I?d certainly like to learn more about this. See leaked document at http://statewatch.org/news/2016/aug/eu-com-copyright-draft.pdf (This Impact Assessment acts as a policymaking blueprint, where the Commission provides political justification for the legislative action it will take, assessing the potential impact on stakeholders.) Identified problem on page 124 : ?Right holders face great difficulties, or are unable, to negotiate with online service providers that store and give access to large amounts of protected content uploaded by their users. This results in right holders having limited control over the use and the remuneration for the use of their content? Page 132 suggests as a solution (?option 2?) ?An obligation on user uploaded content services to seek, in good faith, to conclude agreements with rightsholders and to put in place appropriate and proportionate content identification technologies? (So much for mere conduit and non-liability for hosters?) Identified problem on page 141: ?The shift from print to digital has enlarged the audience of newspapers, magazines and other publications but made the exploitation and enforcement of the rights in publications increasingly difficult. In addition, publishers face difficulties as regards compensation for uses under exceptions? Pages 147-148 suggest as solutions 'The introduction in EU law of a related right covering online use of news publications plus the introduction in EU law of the possibility for Member States to provide that publishers may claim compensation for uses under an exception (i.e. a snippet tax)' See also https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/european-copyright-leak-exposes-plans-force-internet-subsidize-publishers ?If these recommendations by the European Commission are put in place, Europe's Internet will never be the same, and these impacts are likely to reverberate around the world.' -Bastiaan > On 28 Sep 2016, at 09:59, Gordon Lennox wrote: > > And IPv6 deployment in the European institutions, especially the Commission? > > Gordon > >> On 28 Sep 2016, at 09:36, Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de wrote: >> >> I would like to suggest: >> Ipv6 deployment status in EU govs >> - I can bring our part >> ?de.gov and subsequent adressspace planning, routing, using profiles?-10 min >> - Status of testa ng and ISA 2 from EU COM and Germany >> Messages from cooperation wg to IGF in Mexico >> - We can talk about IGF Germany >> Constanze >> >> Constanze B?rger >> Masters Degree in Computer Science >> Federal Ministry of the Interior >> Division ITI5 >> IT and Network Infrastructures in the public administration >> ADDRESS Alt-Moabit 140, D 10557 Berlin >> PHONE +49 30 18 681-10617 >> E-MAIL Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de >> >> >> Von: cooperation-wg [mailto:cooperation-wg-bounces at ripe.net] Im Auftrag von Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu >> Gesendet: Montag, 26. September 2016 22:24 >> An: cooperation-wg at ripe.net >> Betreff: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG >> >> Dear group members, >> >> Our meeting at RIPE73 is just one month away and we are in the process of finalising the agenda. >> >> If you would like to suggest a topic for discussion or have a presentation you have or would like to see presented, please get in touch with us. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Julf & Achilleas > From Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de Wed Sep 28 14:15:41 2016 From: Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de (Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 12:15:41 +0000 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG In-Reply-To: <5D44DA19-7CA4-47DC-8C44-5FD2FD9D5B9F@gmail.com> References: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> <5D44DA19-7CA4-47DC-8C44-5FD2FD9D5B9F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DB04A@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> Would be great Von: Gordon Lennox [mailto:gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. September 2016 09:59 An: B?rger, Constanze; Achilleas Kemos; Cooperation WG Cc: lorena at collaboratory.de Betreff: Re: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG And IPv6 deployment in the European institutions, especially the Commission? Gordon On 28 Sep 2016, at 09:36, Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de wrote: I would like to suggest: Ipv6 deployment status in EU govs - I can bring our part ?de.gov and subsequent adressspace planning, routing, using profiles?-10 min - Status of testa ng and ISA 2 from EU COM and Germany Messages from cooperation wg to IGF in Mexico - We can talk about IGF Germany Constanze Constanze B?rger Masters Degree in Computer Science Federal Ministry of the Interior Division ITI5 IT and Network Infrastructures in the public administration ADDRESS Alt-Moabit 140, D 10557 Berlin PHONE +49 30 18 681-10617 E-MAIL Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de Von: cooperation-wg [mailto:cooperation-wg-bounces at ripe.net] Im Auftrag von Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu Gesendet: Montag, 26. September 2016 22:24 An: cooperation-wg at ripe.net Betreff: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG Dear group members, Our meeting at RIPE73 is just one month away and we are in the process of finalising the agenda. If you would like to suggest a topic for discussion or have a presentation you have or would like to see presented, please get in touch with us. Best regards, Julf & Achilleas -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marcoh at ripe.net Wed Sep 28 14:37:55 2016 From: marcoh at ripe.net (Marco Hogewoning) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:37:55 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG In-Reply-To: <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> References: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> Message-ID: Constanze, all, If I may suggest, maybe we can combine the topics. Similar as last year, I am involved in the IGF Best Practice Forum on IPv6. Last year?s discussion and output document did mention, amongst other things, the notion that governments, by deploying IPv6, could provide incentive for the market to offer IPv6 products and services. As many governments in our service region have deployed such measures and other governments are still looking at making IPv6 mandatory for government ICT purchases and eGovernment services, maybe we can use this group to evaluate the effect of these measures. This would also likely benefit this year?s Best Practice Forum, which is already underway in assessing the economic and commercial drivers that lie behind a successful adoption of IPv6 by operators and service providers. In particular, from talking with several governments and observations in market adoption, it seems we are still somewhat caught in a loop where governments still struggle toi meet their objectives because the offerings from the market are limit. While at the same time several operators still claim that lack of demand is a significant obstruction in the deployment of IPv6. Maybe the cooperation group would be a nice place to bring these two sides together and see if there is a way to break out of this circle. Regards, Marco Hogewoning -- External Relations - RIPE NCC > On 28 Sep 2016, at 09:36, Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de wrote: > > I would like to suggest: > Ipv6 deployment status in EU govs > - I can bring our part > ?de.gov and subsequent adressspace planning, routing, using profiles?-10 min > - Status of testa ng and ISA 2 from EU COM and Germany > Messages from cooperation wg to IGF in Mexico > - We can talk about IGF Germany > Constanze > > Constanze B?rger > Masters Degree in Computer Science > Federal Ministry of the Interior > Division ITI5 > IT and Network Infrastructures in the public administration > ADDRESS Alt-Moabit 140, D 10557 Berlin > PHONE +49 30 18 681-10617 > E-MAIL Constanze.Buerger at bmi.bund.de > > > Von: cooperation-wg [mailto:cooperation-wg-bounces at ripe.net] Im Auftrag von Achilleas.KEMOS at ec.europa.eu > Gesendet: Montag, 26. September 2016 22:24 > An: cooperation-wg at ripe.net > Betreff: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG > > Dear group members, > > Our meeting at RIPE73 is just one month away and we are in the process of finalising the agenda. > > If you would like to suggest a topic for discussion or have a presentation you have or would like to see presented, please get in touch with us. > > Best regards, > > Julf & Achilleas From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 21:54:19 2016 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:54:19 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG In-Reply-To: References: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> Message-ID: IPv6 and the EU, and particularly the European Commission? I seem to remember talking about IPv6 and what the Commission was doing at previous RIPE meetings. But I think that was: a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. So long ago that some of the related links from Google to ripe.net are now broken. Anyway the Commission adopted two Communications. One in 2002: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-02-284_en.htm?locale=en http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:52002DC0096&from=EN And one in 2008: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-08-803_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/rep/1/2008/EN/1-2008-313-EN-F1-1.Pdf There was also a significant amount of funding allocated to projects related to IPv6. That is why it would be interesting to know where the EU institutions, and especially the Commission, are in using IPv6 now. Gordon From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 22:04:51 2016 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 22:04:51 +0200 Subject: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG In-Reply-To: References: <5213F3B60B84F74AA0C30985B5E546564B20CE88@S-DC-ESTG02-J.net1.cec.eu.int> <79F540CC87E9FD49A2075F92003D5355B84DAFBA@BMIBH160.intern.bmi> Message-ID: <0D347044-5600-4F54-AF65-4E246BC50EE6@gmail.com> Another interesting topic could be how the Commission, DG Connect, sees how all their intended investments in 5G - political and regulatory and financial - relate to the internet. At the "Net Futures" event earlier this year, Commissioner Oettinger said: << They (communication networks) need to move from "one size fits all" and "best effort", towards networks that can adapt to the versatile requirements of many industries, and that can deliver guaranteed and ubiquitous quality of service. >> When one thinks of the various fundamentals of the internet there is a major mismatch there. Gordon From corinnecath at gmail.com Thu Sep 29 16:15:45 2016 From: corinnecath at gmail.com (Corinne Cath) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:15:45 +0100 Subject: [cooperation-wg] cooperation-wg Digest, Vol 56, Issue 14 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I would be happy to add to that conversation from the perspective of civil society, as ARTICLE 19 recently wrote about the impact of 5G development and roll-out on human rights. I assume a remote presentation option is possible? (I shared the blog to the list, but here is another link: https://www.article19.org/join-the-debate.php/252/view/). Best, On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 11:00 AM, wrote: > Send cooperation-wg mailing list submissions to > cooperation-wg at ripe.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/cooperation-wg > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > cooperation-wg-request at ripe.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > cooperation-wg-owner at ripe.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of cooperation-wg digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - Cooperation WG (Gordon Lennox) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 22:04:51 +0200 > From: Gordon Lennox > To: Cooperation WG > Subject: Re: [cooperation-wg] Call for Agenda Items RIPE73 - > Cooperation WG > Message-ID: <0D347044-5600-4F54-AF65-4E246BC50EE6 at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Another interesting topic could be how the Commission, DG Connect, sees > how all their intended investments in 5G - political and regulatory and > financial - relate to the internet. > > At the "Net Futures" event earlier this year, Commissioner Oettinger said: > > << They (communication networks) need to move from "one size fits all" and > "best effort", towards networks that can adapt to the versatile > requirements of many industries, and that can deliver guaranteed and > ubiquitous quality of service. >> > > When one thinks of the various fundamentals of the internet there is a > major mismatch there. > > Gordon > > > > > > End of cooperation-wg Digest, Vol 56, Issue 14 > ********************************************** > -- Corinne J.N. 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