From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Fri Oct 18 12:38:43 2013 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 12:38:43 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect Message-ID: <478D2942-C421-4F40-AB92-BECEAD4A66EF@gmail.com> The Directorate General in the European Commission that was DG Information Society (or DG INFSO) changed its name to DG Connect (or DG CNEC)T just over a year ago. http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/connect/ I will leave it to others to decide whether the risk of "collisions" is significant! Best, Gordon From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Fri Oct 18 12:38:43 2013 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 12:38:43 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect Message-ID: <478D2942-C421-4F40-AB92-BECEAD4A66EF@gmail.com> The Directorate General in the European Commission that was DG Information Society (or DG INFSO) changed its name to DG Connect (or DG CNEC)T just over a year ago. http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/connect/ I will leave it to others to decide whether the risk of "collisions" is significant! Best, Gordon From randy at psg.com Fri Oct 18 13:48:55 2013 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 14:48:55 +0300 Subject: [connect-bof] Welcome to the "connect-bof" mailing list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: what the heck is this. have i forgotten something or is this just some eager beaver not knowing that you do not subscribe people to mailing lists without their consent? randy connect-bof-request at ripe.net wrote: > > Welcome to the connect-bof at ripe.net mailing list! > > To post to this list, send your email to: > > connect-bof at ripe.net > > General information about the mailing list is at: > > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof > > If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > subscription page at: > > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/options/connect-bof/randy%40psg.com > > You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: > > connect-bof-request at ripe.net > > with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > > You must know your password to change your options (including changing > the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: > > peceonak > > Normally, Mailman will remind you of your ripe.net mailing list > passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you > prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to > unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on > your options page that will email your current password to you. From randy at psg.com Fri Oct 18 14:39:06 2013 From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:39:06 +0300 Subject: [connect-bof] Welcome to the "connect-bof" mailing list In-Reply-To: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> Message-ID: > This is the old EIX WG. aha! thanks. randy From marty at akamai.com Fri Oct 18 14:35:13 2013 From: marty at akamai.com (Hannigan, Martin) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 08:35:13 -0400 Subject: [connect-bof] Welcome to the "connect-bof" mailing list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29B685A2-309C-4EF7-A4A2-12B7F4099E85@akamai.com> Same here. Can someone at RIPE explain? Much obliged, and best, Martin > On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:27, "Randy Bush" wrote: > > what the heck is this. have i forgotten something or is this just some > eager beaver not knowing that you do not subscribe people to mailing > lists without their consent? > > randy > > > connect-bof-request at ripe.net wrote: >> >> Welcome to the connect-bof at ripe.net mailing list! >> >> To post to this list, send your email to: >> >> connect-bof at ripe.net >> >> General information about the mailing list is at: >> >> https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof >> >> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to >> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your >> subscription page at: >> >> https://www.ripe.net/mailman/options/connect-bof/randy%40psg.com >> >> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: >> >> connect-bof-request at ripe.net >> >> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the >> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. >> >> You must know your password to change your options (including changing >> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: >> >> peceonak >> >> Normally, Mailman will remind you of your ripe.net mailing list >> passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you >> prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to >> unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on >> your options page that will email your current password to you. > > _______________________________________________ > connect-bof mailing list > connect-bof at ripe.net > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof From martin at he.net Fri Oct 18 14:37:30 2013 From: martin at he.net (Martin J. Levy) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:37:30 +0300 Subject: [connect-bof] Welcome to the "connect-bof" mailing list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> Randy, Please read: https://ripe67.ripe.net/presentations/376-RIPE67_EIX_Closing.pdf This is the old EIX WG. Martin Martin J. Levy Director IPv6 Strategy Hurricane Electric 760 Mission Court, Fremont, CA 94539, USA +1 408 499 3801 (mobile) martin at he.net (email) http://he.net/ (web) On Oct 18, 2013, at 2:48 PM, Randy Bush wrote: > what the heck is this. have i forgotten something or is this just some > eager beaver not knowing that you do not subscribe people to mailing > lists without their consent? > > randy > > > connect-bof-request at ripe.net wrote: >> >> Welcome to the connect-bof at ripe.net mailing list! >> >> To post to this list, send your email to: >> >> connect-bof at ripe.net >> >> General information about the mailing list is at: >> >> https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof >> >> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to >> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your >> subscription page at: >> >> https://www.ripe.net/mailman/options/connect-bof/randy%40psg.com >> >> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: >> >> connect-bof-request at ripe.net >> >> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the >> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. >> >> You must know your password to change your options (including changing >> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: >> >> peceonak >> >> Normally, Mailman will remind you of your ripe.net mailing list >> passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you >> prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to >> unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on >> your options page that will email your current password to you. > > _______________________________________________ > connect-bof mailing list > connect-bof at ripe.net > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cokotracy at gmail.com Fri Oct 18 15:10:09 2013 From: cokotracy at gmail.com (Coko Tracy Musaza) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:10:09 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Welcome to the "connect-bof" mailing list In-Reply-To: References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> Message-ID: Thank you for the update CokoTracy LATNOK MRK ltd Kigali, Rwanda 2013/10/18, Randy Bush : >> This is the old EIX WG. > > aha! thanks. > > randy > > _______________________________________________ > connect-bof mailing list > connect-bof at ripe.net > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof > From cristobal at espanix.net Fri Oct 18 15:13:17 2013 From: cristobal at espanix.net (Cristobal Lopez) Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 15:13:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [connect-bof] Fwd: Re: Welcome to the "connect-bof" mailing list Message-ID: <645832426.338654.1382101997147.open-xchange@email.1and1.es> > ---------- Mensaje original ---------- > De: "Hannigan, Martin" > Para: Randy Bush > Cc: "connect-bof at ripe.net" > Fecha: 18 de octubre de 2013 a las 14:35 > Asunto: Re: [connect-bof] Welcome to the "connect-bof" mailing list > > Same here. Can someone at RIPE explain? > > Much obliged, and best, > > Martin > > > > > On Oct 18, 2013, at 8:27, "Randy Bush" wrote: > > > > what the heck is this. have i forgotten something or is this just some > > eager beaver not knowing that you do not subscribe people to mailing > > lists without their consent? > > > > randy > > > > > > connect-bof-request at ripe.net wrote: > >> > >> Welcome to the connect-bof at ripe.net mailing list! > >> > >> To post to this list, send your email to: > >> > >> connect-bof at ripe.net > >> > >> General information about the mailing list is at: > >> > >> https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof > >> > >> If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to > >> or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your > >> subscription page at: > >> > >> https://www.ripe.net/mailman/options/connect-bof/randy%40psg.com > >> > >> You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: > >> > >> connect-bof-request at ripe.net > >> > >> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the > >> quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. > >> > >> You must know your password to change your options (including changing > >> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: > >> > >> peceonak > >> > >> Normally, Mailman will remind you of your ripe.net mailing list > >> passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you > >> prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to > >> unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on > >> your options page that will email your current password to you. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > connect-bof mailing list > > connect-bof at ripe.net > > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof > > _______________________________________________ > connect-bof mailing list > connect-bof at ripe.net > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 12:55:35 2013 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 12:55:35 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Regulation proposed by European Commission Message-ID: Just before Athens and in the margins of the meeting itself I had various brief exchanges on this and so I thought it useful to bring the various things together and to try and give some pointers. I am not sure which group is better. So I am sending it to both the Cooperation WG and the Connect BOF at this stage. ------- The basic Brussels problem is that they still have not managed to do Internet and telecoms policy as a coherent whole. People there tend not come to RIPE, or any similar Internet meetings. The few who do internet-related things have tended to go to ICANN, where of course the emphasis has been on new gTLDs, and to the IGF, which was defined as having "no negotiated outcomes". Which can all seen as adequate as there is no intention to regulate the Internet in the EU! Meanwhile there is a much larger group working on EU telecoms regulation which is done without significant reference to the Internet and yet with serious lobbying from ETNO and GSMA. Even ETSI has its Brussels person. The result has been texts and proposals that Internet people have found confusing or even potentially dangerous. Confusing? A few years ago there was a major study on "IP Interconnection". Because there were major problems with IP interconnection? If I remember correctly the way in was given by Daniel Karrenberg who suggested that if you changed the title of the study it made more sense. It was not about IP interconnection: it was about the interconnection of telecoms services over IP networks. Not exactly the same thing. Dangerous? I think it was folk from the CENTR community who saw the problem. While the Commission said they had no intent of regulating certain Internet things, and so had not looked in that direction, CENTR lawyers felt their text could be interpreted as applying to the DNS and TLDs. The problem is though that regulations are for regulators and the courts to interpret. And they are not going to run back to Brussels and ask what they really meant. So now we have a new proposed regulation. I should mention that once "regulations" are adopted by the European Parliament and the Council that is it. "Regulations" are unlike "directives" where Member States then have to transpose the texts into their national legislation. There is also the point that next year sees elections for the Parliament and a new Commission which will obviously influence the timetable. There are a number of aspects which should be of interest to this community: ** the Commission's view of the sector. The telecoms sector is in a bad way? But if helped it will do good things? ** market consolidation. This is a big part of the answer? ** interconnection. Needs to be regulated? But at which layer and between who? ** network neutrality & the open internet v. specialised services ** ... and so on The press release or "memo" provide perhaps the easier ways in: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-828_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-779_en.htm But the "communication" is probably better: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/communication-commission-european-parliament-council-european-economic-and-social-committee-a-0 Then the proposed Regulation is where the meat is: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/regulation-european-parliament-and-council-laying-down-measures-concerning-european-single If you only read one text though then the proposed Regulation is the best. There is a link to the text of the new Regulation, and all the other various associated documents, here: http://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/connected-continent-single-telecom-market-growth-jobs ------ So the formal title and a few semi-random extracts: Brussels, 11.9.2013 COM(2013) 627 final 2013/0309 (COD) Proposal for a REGULATION OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL laying down measures concerning the European single market for electronic communications and to achieve a Connected Continent, and amending Directives 2002/20/EC, 2002/21/EC and 2002/22/EC and Regulations (EC) No 1211/2009 and (EU) No 531/2012 <> <> <> <<"assured service quality (ASQ) connectivity product" means a product that is made available at the internet protocol (IP) exchange, which enables customers to set up an IP communication link between a point of interconnection and one or several fixed network termination points, and enables defined levels of end to end network performance for the provision of specific services to end users on the basis of the delivery of a specified guaranteed quality of service, based on specified parameters;>> ----- So one might ask what "four to five large operators" would mean for the public Internet in this region. The second point says an awful lot in a few words! The third point may not make sense if you think in Internet terms. But if you sprinkle "telecoms" throughout then you may see better where they are coming from. Point four? An "internet protocol (IP) exchange" is not an IXP? There are other points elsewhere that you might find more interesting of course. ----- Meanwhile from the European Parliament web-site: <> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/committees/en/itre/home.html ---- So suggestions. I would hope others will take the time to read at least some of the material. And with a red-pen or text-marker! By the way the texts are available in other languages. I think though leaving any community discussion to Warsaw is probably taking a risk. I think a discussion here would be much better. If people then feel they have concerns then there are two approaches: ** individuals and organisation contacting their Ministry/Regulator and/or MEP. ** or a community input with the help of NCC. One does not preclude the other. But even putting down a marker can be useful. Enough for now? Gordon From ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de Tue Oct 22 14:45:36 2013 From: ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de (Carsten Schiefner) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:45:36 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> Message-ID: <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> All - On 18.10.2013 14:37, Martin J. Levy wrote: > Please read: > > https://ripe67.ripe.net/presentations/376-RIPE67_EIX_Closing.pdf as not everybody might have had a look at the slides already... Slide 7 reads: === Connect BOF initial Topic list ?* IP interconnection ?* Voice & Data (IPX/GRX) ?* Regulation and the Internet ?* State of the Internet ?* New development in the IXP landscape (not marketing) ?* EURO-IX slot about ISP tools and where to find IXP status ?* Data center ecosystem ?* Interconnecting best practices ?* Interconnections in emerging markets ?* Technical topics related to interconnections ?* Cross border, terrestrial and undersea cables === Best, Carsten From swa at ecix.net Tue Oct 22 15:47:38 2013 From: swa at ecix.net (Stefan Wahl) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:47:38 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> Message-ID: <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> Hi, thank you Carsten. Want: > ?* IP interconnection > ?* Interconnecting best practices > ?* Interconnections in emerging markets > ?* Technical topics related to interconnections > ?* Voice & Data (IPX/GRX) > * New development in the IXP landscape (not marketing <-- thin line) * Measurement standards to compare points of interconnect Maybe: > ?* EURO-IX slot about ISP tools and where to find IXP status > ?* Data center ecosystem > ?* Cross border, terrestrial and undersea cables * Peering policies best practices * Capacity planning Why: > ?* Regulation and the Internet Please Explain: > ?* State of the Internet regards Stefan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 495 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From mike at smashing.net Tue Oct 22 21:59:43 2013 From: mike at smashing.net (Mike Hughes) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 20:59:43 +0100 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> Message-ID: On 22 October 2013 14:47, Stefan Wahl wrote: > Why: > > ?* Regulation and the Internet > I think this was more about how regulation might affect interconnection - e.g. ARCEP. > Please Explain: > > ?* State of the Internet > Not entirely sure, but I think this is general trends that might have a bearing on methods of interconnection? Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edwin at nl-ix.net Tue Oct 22 22:31:59 2013 From: edwin at nl-ix.net (Edwin Punt - NL-ix) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 22:31:59 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> Message-ID: <5266E0BF.1090506@nl-ix.net> Regulation and the internet - has an overlap with the cooperation WG but looking at possible interconnect regulation it looks like a good item to have. State of the internet - think in the broadest scenario: how stable is the internet, is it robust enough, where might better interconnects help. example like: effect of sea cable outages and what possible solutions fully aware this requires more definition but we put it on the list of possible topics to be discussed and see if the community has some idea of it as well EP On 10/22/13 9:59 PM, Mike Hughes wrote: > On 22 October 2013 14:47, Stefan Wahl > wrote: > > Why: > > ---* Regulation and the Internet > > > I think this was more about how regulation might affect > interconnection - e.g. ARCEP. > > Please Explain: > > ---* State of the Internet > > > Not entirely sure, but I think this is general trends that might have > a bearing on methods of interconnection? > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > connect-bof mailing list > connect-bof at ripe.net > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof -- Edwin Punt NL-ix (NeutraL internet exchange) Laan Copes van Cattenburch 73, 2585 EW, the Hague, the Netherlands +31 6 238 205 73 (GSM) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Tue Oct 22 23:25:08 2013 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 23:25:08 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: <5266E0BF.1090506@nl-ix.net> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> <5266E0BF.1090506@nl-ix.net> Message-ID: <46092059-64B0-452E-913D-4A76815C1285@gmail.com> On 22 Oct, 2013, at 22:31, Edwin Punt - NL-ix wrote: > but looking at possible interconnect regulation it looks like a good item to have. But it might depend on whether you want to try and influence regulation or just take it as a given... The proposed Regulation from the Commission is about interconnection... But that might mean starting now. So do it in the context of the Cooperation WG? Gordon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de Wed Oct 23 10:44:56 2013 From: ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de (Carsten Schiefner) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:44:56 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> Message-ID: <52678C88.2040709@schiefner.de> Hi Mike, On 22.10.2013 21:59, Mike Hughes wrote: > On 22 October 2013 14:47, Stefan Wahl > wrote: > > Why: > > ?* Regulation and the Internet > > > I think this was more about how regulation might affect interconnection > - e.g. ARCEP. I'd assume that you have "Autorit? de R?gulation des Communications ?lectroniques et des Postes" in mind for the acronym ARCEP - the French independent administrative Authority in charge of Post and Electronic Communications. If so: what is their regulation (efforts) that might affect interconnection as you mention ARCEP explicitly? Thanks & best, -C. From andy at nosignal.org Wed Oct 23 10:58:03 2013 From: andy at nosignal.org (Andy Davidson) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 08:58:03 +0000 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: <52678C88.2040709@schiefner.de> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> <52678C88.2040709@schiefner.de> Message-ID: Hi, Carsten -- > I'd assume that you have "Autorit? de R?gulation des > Communications ?lectroniques et des Postes" in mind > for the acronym ARCEP - the French independent administrative > Authority in charge of Post and Electronic Communications. > If so: what is their regulation (efforts) that might affect > interconnection as you mention ARCEP explicitly? https://ripe64.ripe.net/presentations/103-RIPE_64_ARCEP_panel.pdf https://ripe64.ripe.net/presentations/104-2012-04-16_-_ARCEP's_decision.pdf tl;dr = Registration of interconnections may be required. Industry says that this would be a huge disincentive to peer. Be (possibly) afraid. Andy From ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de Wed Oct 23 11:53:45 2013 From: ripe-wgs.cs at schiefner.de (Carsten Schiefner) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:53:45 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] interconnection registration etc. In-Reply-To: References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> <52678C88.2040709@schiefner.de> Message-ID: <52679CA9.7050506@schiefner.de> Thanks, Andy - On 23.10.2013 10:58, Andy Davidson wrote: >> [...] >> If so: what is their regulation (efforts) that might affect >> interconnection as you mention ARCEP explicitly? > > https://ripe64.ripe.net/presentations/103-RIPE_64_ARCEP_panel.pdf > > https://ripe64.ripe.net/presentations/104-2012-04-16_-_ARCEP's_decision.pdf seems that this has entirely disappeared from my memory... :-/ > tl;dr = Registration of interconnections may be required. Industry says that this would be a huge disincentive to peer. Be (possibly) afraid. So it seems that this is in force now. Are there any first evaluations available on the impact on peering within France as well as between operators in France and other countries? As I have not been able to find any. Thanks and best, -C. From nihb at netflix.com Wed Oct 23 11:48:40 2013 From: nihb at netflix.com (Nina Bargisen) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:48:40 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: <46092059-64B0-452E-913D-4A76815C1285@gmail.com> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> <5266E0BF.1090506@nl-ix.net> <46092059-64B0-452E-913D-4A76815C1285@gmail.com> Message-ID: <373B3DD7-687B-484B-B15F-D29B8762FDB0@netflix.com> When proposing this topic for the connect-bfo, we were well aware that there is an overlap to the Coorporation WG and I think this will a topic to discuss both here on the list and and at the Bof at the next RIPE. I agree with Gordon that not discussing current topics untill this is resolved in Warsaw is a bad idea, so I thank Gordon for starting the thread about the Proposal from the EC. I believe the discussion should run in bot this Bof and the Cooperation WG and I hope the Coorporation wg will agree to that. This way we create awareness in the peering community about the topic and get some input for work with the Governance folks the other way around. Cheers, Nina Bargisen Den 22/10/2013 kl. 23.25 skrev Gordon Lennox : > > On 22 Oct, 2013, at 22:31, Edwin Punt - NL-ix wrote: > >> but looking at possible interconnect regulation it looks like a good item to have. > > But it might depend on whether you want to try and influence regulation or just take it as a given... > > The proposed Regulation from the Commission is about interconnection... > > But that might mean starting now. So do it in the context of the Cooperation WG? > > Gordon > > > _______________________________________________ > connect-bof mailing list > connect-bof at ripe.net > https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 495 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From nigel at titley.com Wed Oct 23 11:43:26 2013 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 10:43:26 +0100 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> <52678C88.2040709@schiefner.de> Message-ID: <52679A3E.7060402@titley.com> On 23/10/2013 09:58, Andy Davidson wrote: > Hi, Carsten -- > >> I'd assume that you have "Autorit? de R?gulation des >> Communications ?lectroniques et des Postes" in mind >> for the acronym ARCEP - the French independent administrative >> Authority in charge of Post and Electronic Communications. >> If so: what is their regulation (efforts) that might affect >> interconnection as you mention ARCEP explicitly? > https://ripe64.ripe.net/presentations/103-RIPE_64_ARCEP_panel.pdf > > https://ripe64.ripe.net/presentations/104-2012-04-16_-_ARCEP's_decision.pdf > > tl;dr = Registration of interconnections may be required. Industry says that this would be a huge disincentive to peer. Be (possibly) afraid. > > It sounds frightening but it hasn't been a huge amount of work for us. And to be frank we aren't telling them a lot more than they could find out themselves by getting a collection to Renesys, looking at the RIPE database and looking at PeeringDB And if it helps them to go after some of the european monopolists then I'm all for it Nigel From mike at smashing.net Wed Oct 23 12:15:56 2013 From: mike at smashing.net (Mike Hughes) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:15:56 +0100 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: <52679A3E.7060402@titley.com> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> <52678C88.2040709@schiefner.de> <52679A3E.7060402@titley.com> Message-ID: On 23 October 2013 10:43, Nigel Titley wrote: > It sounds frightening but it hasn't been a huge amount of work for us. > And to be frank we aren't telling them a lot more than they could find > out themselves by getting a collection to Renesys, looking at the RIPE > database and looking at PeeringDB > > And if it helps them to go after some of the european monopolists then > I'm all for it > Nigel, unless I missed it, I don't think there has been a talk at a RIPE meeting about what a provider has had to do to comply with the ARCEP requirement to register interconnections. Are you volunteering? :) Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com Wed Oct 23 12:17:00 2013 From: gordon.lennox.13 at gmail.com (Gordon Lennox) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:17:00 +0200 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: <373B3DD7-687B-484B-B15F-D29B8762FDB0@netflix.com> References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> <5266E0BF.1090506@nl-ix.net> <46092059-64B0-452E-913D-4A76815C1285@gmail.com> <373B3DD7-687B-484B-B15F-D29B8762FDB0@netflix.com> Message-ID: <5A3EB91C-F16E-4FE9-81E9-E9FFE675A3E5@gmail.com> And to go back to the remark I already made: if at some point somebody would write to Brussels on behalf of the BOF/WG then sharing the name "Connect" with the responsible DG in the Commission will just lead to confusion. Not useful. Gordon On 23 Oct, 2013, at 11:48, Nina Bargisen wrote: > When proposing this topic for the connect-bfo, we were well aware that there is an overlap to the Coorporation WG and I think this will a topic to discuss both here on the list and and at the Bof at the next RIPE. > > I agree with Gordon that not discussing current topics untill this is resolved in Warsaw is a bad idea, so I thank Gordon for starting the thread about the Proposal from the EC. I believe the discussion should run in bot this Bof and the Cooperation WG and I hope the Coorporation wg will agree to that. This way we create awareness in the peering community about the topic and get some input for work with the Governance folks the other way around. > > Cheers, > > Nina Bargisen > > > Den 22/10/2013 kl. 23.25 skrev Gordon Lennox : > >> >> On 22 Oct, 2013, at 22:31, Edwin Punt - NL-ix wrote: >> >>> but looking at possible interconnect regulation it looks like a good item to have. >> >> But it might depend on whether you want to try and influence regulation or just take it as a given... >> >> The proposed Regulation from the Commission is about interconnection... >> >> But that might mean starting now. So do it in the context of the Cooperation WG? >> >> Gordon >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> connect-bof mailing list >> connect-bof at ripe.net >> https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nigel at titley.com Wed Oct 23 13:33:10 2013 From: nigel at titley.com (Nigel Titley) Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:33:10 +0100 Subject: [connect-bof] Connect BOF initial Topic list In-Reply-To: References: <0BF37707-1F69-4B1B-9E3D-4B6760FBA142@he.net> <52667370.8070706@schiefner.de> <7C76146D-5FFE-4495-B589-66EE39B29B76@ecix.net> <52678C88.2040709@schiefner.de> <52679A3E.7060402@titley.com> Message-ID: <5267B3F6.7040304@titley.com> On 23/10/2013 11:15, Mike Hughes wrote: > On 23 October 2013 10:43, Nigel Titley > wrote: > > It sounds frightening but it hasn't been a huge amount of work for us. > And to be frank we aren't telling them a lot more than they could find > out themselves by getting a collection to Renesys, looking at the RIPE > database and looking at PeeringDB > > And if it helps them to go after some of the european monopolists then > I'm all for it > > > Nigel, unless I missed it, I don't think there has been a talk at a > RIPE meeting about what a provider has had to do to comply with the > ARCEP requirement to register interconnections. > > Are you volunteering? :) Could do I suppose. It isn't very exciting though is it? I do this every 6 months and I guess that anyone who is at at any peering point in France does too. Nigel -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wouter at vanhulten.com Tue Oct 29 18:32:09 2013 From: wouter at vanhulten.com (Wouter van Hulten) Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 17:32:09 +0000 Subject: [connect-bof] Regulation proposed by European Commission In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for this clear summary. I contacted the ITRE Secretariat last week. Whilst the deadline for the feedback is 5 november, the ITRE Secretariat indicated that they will only send the documents to translation on 14 november. Also, they are keen to receive feedback from RIPE community: ?Please make comments?, and "the text is very complex, technical, political?. Also, Dutch MEP Marietje Schaake has kindly offered to arrange a meeting in Brussels with the ITRE Rapporteur, Mrs Del Castillo Vera. (You may have noticed that she wrote the preface to Report of the Dynamic Coalition in support of Net Neutrality.) Her assistant has written to ITRE rapporteur that "Ms Schaake would like to see whether it would be possible to set up a meeting between Mrs Del Castillo Vera, herself and a small delegation (max 5 persons) of [representatives] from the RIPE Internet Community in order to discuss the Connected Continent proposal.? Tentative dates are 11 november after 1pm, or 12 november 1-2pm. Legislative package: http://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/connected-continent-legislative-package Impact assessment: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/impact-assessment-connected-continent What?s next? Please submit feedback via WG Chair or the list. If you are able to join the meeting, please also send a message. That?s all for now, more news to follow from the WG Chair, if I?m not mistaken. Wouter http://www.europarl.europa.eu/committees/en/itre/home.html Public stakeholder consultation on Telecoms Regulation Ms Pilar del Castillo (EPP), the newly appointed ITRE Rapporteur on the recently proposed Telecoms Regulation is launching a public stakeholder consultation to benefit from the input of consumers, national regulators, industry stakeholders and other interested parties, not least NGOs, in the work of the ITRE Committee. The Rapporteur would welcome this stakeholder input on the Commission proposal by 5 November 2013. For more information on the proposal consult EC website On 22/10/13 12:55, "Gordon Lennox" > wrote: Just before Athens and in the margins of the meeting itself I had various brief exchanges on this and so I thought it useful to bring the various things together and to try and give some pointers. I am not sure which group is better. So I am sending it to both the Cooperation WG and the Connect BOF at this stage. ------- The basic Brussels problem is that they still have not managed to do Internet and telecoms policy as a coherent whole. People there tend not come to RIPE, or any similar Internet meetings. The few who do internet-related things have tended to go to ICANN, where of course the emphasis has been on new gTLDs, and to the IGF, which was defined as having "no negotiated outcomes". Which can all seen as adequate as there is no intention to regulate the Internet in the EU! Meanwhile there is a much larger group working on EU telecoms regulation which is done without significant reference to the Internet and yet with serious lobbying from ETNO and GSMA. Even ETSI has its Brussels person. The result has been texts and proposals that Internet people have found confusing or even potentially dangerous. Confusing? A few years ago there was a major study on "IP Interconnection". Because there were major problems with IP interconnection? If I remember correctly the way in was given by Daniel Karrenberg who suggested that if you changed the title of the study it made more sense. It was not about IP interconnection: it was about the interconnection of telecoms services over IP networks. Not exactly the same thing. Dangerous? I think it was folk from the CENTR community who saw the problem. While the Commission said they had no intent of regulating certain Internet things, and so had not looked in that direction, CENTR lawyers felt their text could be interpreted as applying to the DNS and TLDs. The problem is though that regulations are for regulators and the courts to interpret. And they are not going to run back to Brussels and ask what they really meant. So now we have a new proposed regulation. I should mention that once "regulations" are adopted by the European Parliament and the Council that is it. "Regulations" are unlike "directives" where Member States then have to transpose the texts into their national legislation. There is also the point that next year sees elections for the Parliament and a new Commission which will obviously influence the timetable. There are a number of aspects which should be of interest to this community: ** the Commission's view of the sector. The telecoms sector is in a bad way? But if helped it will do good things? ** market consolidation. This is a big part of the answer? ** interconnection. Needs to be regulated? But at which layer and between who? ** network neutrality & the open internet v. specialised services ** ... and so on The press release or "memo" provide perhaps the easier ways in: http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-828_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-779_en.htm But the "communication" is probably better: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/communication-commission-european-parliament-council-european-economic-and-social-committee-a-0 Then the proposed Regulation is where the meat is: https://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/news/regulation-european-parliament-and-council-laying-down-measures-concerning-european-single If you only read one text though then the proposed Regulation is the best. There is a link to the text of the new Regulation, and all the other various associated documents, here: http://ec.europa.eu/digital-agenda/en/connected-continent-single-telecom-market-growth-jobs ------ So the formal title and a few semi-random extracts: Brussels, 11.9.2013 COM(2013) 627 final 2013/0309 (COD) Proposal for a REGULATION OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL laying down measures concerning the European single market for electronic communications and to achieve a Connected Continent, and amending Directives 2002/20/EC, 2002/21/EC and 2002/22/EC and Regulations (EC) No 1211/2009 and (EU) No 531/2012 <> <> <> <<"assured service quality (ASQ) connectivity product" means a product that is made available at the internet protocol (IP) exchange, which enables customers to set up an IP communication link between a point of interconnection and one or several fixed network termination points, and enables defined levels of end to end network performance for the provision of specific services to end users on the basis of the delivery of a specified guaranteed quality of service, based on specified parameters;>> ----- So one might ask what "four to five large operators" would mean for the public Internet in this region. The second point says an awful lot in a few words! The third point may not make sense if you think in Internet terms. But if you sprinkle "telecoms" throughout then you may see better where they are coming from. Point four? An "internet protocol (IP) exchange" is not an IXP? There are other points elsewhere that you might find more interesting of course. ----- Meanwhile from the European Parliament web-site: <> http://www.europarl.europa.eu/committees/en/itre/home.html ---- So suggestions. I would hope others will take the time to read at least some of the material. And with a red-pen or text-marker! By the way the texts are available in other languages. I think though leaving any community discussion to Warsaw is probably taking a risk. I think a discussion here would be much better. If people then feel they have concerns then there are two approaches: ** individuals and organisation contacting their Ministry/Regulator and/or MEP. ** or a community input with the help of NCC. One does not preclude the other. But even putting down a marker can be useful. Enough for now? Gordon _______________________________________________ connect-bof mailing list connect-bof at ripe.net https://www.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/connect-bof -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: