[coc-tf] Code of Conduct Task Force

I'm not sure right now, been too busy last weeks, what is the status of the AUP (or CoC) or what applies right now.

I just sent an email to the list, excusing myself for having responded yesterday to the provocations.

I think there are a couple of clear points here:
1) Nobody should reply to the list after provocations, that should be considered also a violation of the CoC. At least I should have got a warning for this yesterday.
2) Instead, the ones receiving the provocation should forward that to the chairs or responsible of applying the CoC. I recall I did that once during the Iceland meeting, as I got private nasty emails for a policy proposal under discussion.
3) Chairs of any WG should be exemplary and if not, the consequences of violation of the CoC, should be in a higher degree than for regular participants. I think this should also apply to ex-chairs, because they should have learned much better how to moderate themselves. Maybe the CoC should also allow for recalling them if they are still co-chairs.

In fact, most of those points, are in my policy proposal for AUP in LACNIC. I think I mention it in a previous email exchange.

I still didn't get the rationale for how a TF can exclude some participants. I think it is very important that this is crystal clear, not just for this case, but in the future.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 

El 12/11/20 11:33, "Jordi Palet Martínez" <jordi.palet at theipv6company.com> escribió:

    Hi Niall, all,

    Well, this shows how you missed my points, and it is one of the major issues when dealing in email (which I learnt from the IETF sergeant-of-arms experience), with non-native English speakers.

    It shows also why the CoC-TF need to have people having different experiences and different "cultural backgrounds". I have seen very different interpretations from Mediterranean people, nordics, british, asian, middle-east, etc.

    See below in-line.

    Regards,
    Jordi
    @jordipalet


    El 10/11/20 20:09, "Niall O'Reilly" <niall.oreilly at ucd.ie> escribió:

        Jordi,

        On 10 Nov 2020, at 15:38, Jordi Palet Martínez wrote:

        > Hi Nick,
        >
        > I'm sorry, but I can't see anything in my email that requires an apologize. Can you tell me exactly what, and they if you're right I'm happy to do that?

        I think the following two examples should be sufficient.

        On 9 Nov 2020, at 16:51, Jordi Palet Martínez wrote:

        > I'm coping the RIPE Chair and Vice-chair, as this seems to me very strange and extremely ridiculous. Fortunately, I don't know how to say very bad words in English which I've in my mind right now in Spanish, otherwise, you will read all them.

        I read this as disrespectful.

    [Jordi] It is a clear irony, at least Mediterranean people will get like that.
    a) of course, I know bad words, I just don't want to use them, and if I didn't know them, google will help me - that's the clear irony - don't take now wrong, I think we need examples so you get it. I want to show my "extreme surprise" and how bad it seems to me when reading Leo email. I could have used at a minimum "WTF", but in Spanish I can think in more horrible expressions.
    b) the "extreme surprise" is about the fact that we have a close membership which (unless I missed that, still nobody provided me a document from the community showing it) seems unreasonable to me in a community that is always insisting in "openness, transparency, inclusivity, diversity, etc.". I always though it is that way, but having "closed" groups will radically change my mind in that. I think that was made clear in the rest of the email. IT IS NOT "bad words" about anyone, it is not I was pretending to insult or blame Leo or the CoCTF members.

        On 9 Nov 2020, at 16:51, Jordi Palet Martínez wrote:

        > I'm also going to talk to my lawyer about all this, in case it is a case of discrimination or other illegal actions, according to laws.

        I read this as a threat.

    [Jordi] No, it is a way to again express my surprise and my disagreement and that I've always the right to verify if this is right and otherwise to appeal to justice if I believe (I'm right or not) that I'm being discriminated in any way.

    [Jordi] I'm extremely sensible to law and rights. Some people may consider that a problem and I know that means I get people not happy with me, but I think is the right and honest way to be, not just for me, but for all. Many people complain, but they never take actions. I'm not that kind of guy, I take actions if I'm convinced, I should change something wrong. In Spanish we say "a barking dog seldom bites" - no me. If I believe something is wrong, I try to change it. Tks to that and to legal actions that I took several times against the Spanish government/institutions, even in the Constitutional courts, I succeeded to change broken things in law for everyone, for example the fact that all the political parties were getting all the citizens personal data for sending advertising and there was no way to avoid that, as the ministry of interior responded to me when I asked to retract my data from those databases "unless you're a politician or threatened with death". Now everybody can decide if they want their data sent to the parties or not.

    [Jordi] Take it on the other direction. I could think "they are telling me if I don't apologize and shut up, they will take actions against me" when you said:

    "I expect to see your apology later today.

        I respectfully suggest that you reflect on your “deep experience in
        many abuse situations”
        and consider what consequences usually and normally follow from posting
        messages which are
        obstructive, which waste time, and which contain disrespectful and
        threatening language."

        I may review your nine-point catalogue of challenges when this is convenient for me. I do not intend to be drawn into a correspondence where it seems that I must expect every incoming message to have the characteristics of an aggressive amplification attack.

        Kind regards,

        Niall O’Reilly
        RIPE Vice-Chair





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