[anti-abuse-wg] Report & Co-Chair's Decision on Proposal 2019-04
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JJS JJS
no0484985 at gmail.com
Tue Sep 8 01:31:50 CEST 2020
I am disputing your methodology in determining consensus. If I didn't know that you expected me to offer support for this proposal, neither did anyone else. ___ On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 1:36 AM Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie> wrote: > Thank you for the clarification, albeit I would ask you not to launch into > attacks when doing so. > > Even given that I do not believe it makes any difference to the overall > decision from the Co-Chairs. > > I would suggest that you look at the resources on > https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies which explain the various > phases. > > Equally, the comments made during the Discussion Phase were taken into > account. > > Brian > Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG > > Brian Nisbet > > Service Operations Manager > > HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network > > 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland > > +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie > > Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 > ------------------------------ > *From:* anti-abuse-wg <anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net> on behalf of JJS > JJS <no0484985 at gmail.com> > *Sent:* Monday 7 September 2020 16:27 > *To:* anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net> > *Subject:* Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Report & Co-Chair's Decision on Proposal > 2019-04 > > > CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the > organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you > recognise the sender and know the content is safe. > > That fact that you classify my email as being on the "no" argument, shows > how misguided you are. > > Not for one second was I against this proposal, just the point about > mandating emails. > > There is no consensus "against" this proposal. > > Your methodology of surveying views is so warped, it is unbelievable. > > ------ > > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 1:19 AM Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie> > wrote: > > Colleagues, > > A few weeks ago we reached the end of the latest review phase for 2019-04. > The Co-Chairs have worked closely with the NCC Policy Development Office > since then to try to make a decision on this policy. This email contains a > report on the Discussion Phase and Review Phase and then a final decision > which, we believe, is supported by the activity during those phases. > > As always, this is underpinned by the RIPE PDP - > https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-710 > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fpublications%2Fdocs%2Fripe-710&data=02%7C01%7C%7C52743e2d79214186604e08d8534291ff%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637350892677909839&sdata=5AZsDBvQNpP7S%2Brm07cWbqf2buJv33M%2BRA2HtZwDCgI%3D&reserved=0> > > Discussion Phase: > > There was some clear support for the policy during the Discussion Phase. > This came from: > > Serge Droz, who felt that it would help in a number of cases and that an > inability to answer an e-mail every six month probably indicated underlying > issues. He also felt it would allow the community to understand who was > doing good work and who wasn't, and it will prevent organisations from > saying they never received a report. He also pointed out some of the > difference in reaction between the security and operator communities on > this policy. > > Carlos Friacas, agreed that it would help, but not solve all problems. He > also flagged that if "deregistration" was not a possible outcome for a > continuous failure to validate, then the outcome of transparency would > still be positive, but did say that must be balanced against the NCC Impact > Analysis. > > Jordi Palet Martinez, the proposer, was, of course, in favour, but also > reacted to a number of voices against the proposal: > - The job of the RIPE NCC is to implement the policies agreed by the > community. I believe is perfectly understandable the need to avoid using > manual forms which don't follow a single standard, which means extra work > for *everyone*. (Responding to Nick Hilliard) > - The actual policy has a bigger level of micro-management, by setting > one year and not allowing the NCC to change that. (Responding to Nick > Hilliard) > - The problem of a form is that is not standard. This is economically > non-sustainable and means that the cost of the abuse cases is on the back > of the one actually reporting. (Responding to No No) > - The actual validation is not working, it is just a technical validation > (responding to Gert Doering) > - The community prefers to do things in steps, we initially asked for an > abuse mailbox, we then added a technical validation, now we are asking for > a better validation. I am not asking to verify if you handle abuse case or > not and I am not asking to take any new actions. > > Angel Gonzalez Berdasco suuported the proposal, but also made multiple > comments on a different approach, including an abuse-uri and highlighted > that standarising the communications was important. > > A number of people spoke in clear opposition. > > Nick Hilliard stated that it is not the job of the RIPE NCC to tell its > members how to handle abuse reports. He further said that the is > self-contradictory, intrusive into NCC membership business processes and > there is no compelling reason to believe that the proposal will end up > reducing the amount of abuse on the internet. > > Gert Doering said that if people *do not want* to handle abuse reports, > this proposal will not make them and that cases of misconfiguration are > already caught today. > > No No did not want anyone to be restricted in how they received abuse > reports. > > Michele Neylon opposed the proposal and agreed with the points made by > Nick. > > A number of other people posted either with mixed comments, or in a way > that did not make it clear where they stood on the proposal: > > Job Snijders, Elad Cohen, Alistair Mackenzie, Suresh Ramasubramanian, > Hans-Martin Mosner, Shane Kerr, Sascha Luck, Arash Naderpur, Richard > Clayton, Alessandro Vesely, Randy Bush > > The Review Phase of the proposal lasted from 20 July 2020 to 18 August > 2020. > > There were 14 messages received during the review phase. Out of which, 3 > were from the PDO, 1 was myself's and 2 were Jordi’s requesting > clarification on the Impact Analysis. > > - There was no messages of support to the proposal. > > There was one message stating that the form is more beneficial than email > to report abuse because it always reaches the host to which Jordi tried to > address stating that email can be automated whilst forms can not. > > - There were opposing arguments based on two fronts: > > 1) Nick Hilliard and Erik Bais commented that the effort and cost to > implement this proposal are too great in relations to the benefits that are > alleged. > > 2) Michele Neylon and Arash Naderpour commented that they oppose forcing > operators to use only email for handling abuse reports and internal > handling procedures should be solely defined by the operator. > > Nick Hilliard and Michele Neylon also requested the proposal to be dropped > as concerns raised over the last 18 months have not been addressed and > tweaking this proposal would not add any value. > > There was no attempt to address the opposing arguments above during the > review phase. > > With all of this in mind, and with the continued failure of any kind of > consensus from the working group, the Co-Chairs have decided to withdraw > this proposal. As always we would welcome proposals on this and other > matters, however we do not feel that there is any likelihood of 2019-04, > regardless of possible edits, reaching consensus in the short or medium > term. > > Alireza, Brian, Tobias > Co-Chairs, RIPE AA-WG > > Brian Nisbet > > Service Operations Manager > > HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network > > 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland > > +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie > <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heanet.ie%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C52743e2d79214186604e08d8534291ff%7Ccd9e8269dfb648e082538b7baf8d3391%7C0%7C0%7C637350892677909839&sdata=zECAlNSlhfdANfCkiTRmtnJA1zFr3%2F59poSOQm2Fta0%3D&reserved=0> > > Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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