[anti-abuse-wg] On +1s and Policy Awareness AND Astro... something...

On Thu, Apr 04, 2019 at 04:52:32PM +0100, CSIRT.UMINHO Marco Teixeira wrote:
>While I speak for myself, I might incur the risk of representing a lot of the so-called "Astroturfers?!". While some accuse (please don't take it personally, it's just clarification) the newcomers of being voiceless, I must say that I have been, with great effort, refraining from going into a long discourse on a list where I am new. That should not be understood as a sign of "spamming" a vetting process, but as a sign of respect for all of you, long-standing members of RIPE, guardians of our IP addresses, one of the building blocks of the Internet :-)

I know of forums where "the n00b" is expected to shut up and
listen, but this is not one of them. At least I have never
noticed that newcomers weren't welcomed - and as I stated before,
I personally would like to see more and different voices here -
and no, not just those who agree with me although I hope some
will...

So don't be afraid to speak up if you've something to say!

>As one last thought, again IMHO, I believe BGP Hijacking is one of the most pressing issues, menacing the Internet resiliency, and it must be dealt with. In the same manner, we apply AUP's to our users, it's RIPE responsibility, to clearly state, it is not acceptable, and it will have consequences... Raising the risk for companies is the only way we tip the balance of "Loss vs Earning", and hopefully eradicate bad actors, or hopefully even stopping them right at their business plans.

1) The RIPE NCC is not the provider of "AUP" for the entire
Internet or even the Internet of the Service Region. I understand
that some would *like* it to be, but that is not what the members
are paying it for. 
2) If anyone needs to be "eradicated", I'd prefer that to be
determined by a judge and, preferably, a jury. NOT some
neighbourhood watch curtain-twitcher with the help of a monopoly
service provider. 

>This is why I support "2019-03 New Policy Proposal (BGP Hijacking is a RIPE Policy Violation)"

and this is why I oppose it :)

rgds,
SL

>Best regards,
>Marco
>----- Mensagem original -----
>> De: "Brian Nisbet" <brian.nisbet at heanet.ie>
>> Para: "anti-abuse-wg" <anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net>
>> Enviadas: Quinta-feira, 4 De Abril de 2019 9:42:32
>> Assunto: [anti-abuse-wg] On +1s and Policy Awareness
>
>> Colleagues,
>>
>> Two (broad) things to address, while, of course, noting that I would ask you all
>> to assume best intent in all of your fellow working group members. And to post
>> as politely as possible yourself!
>>
>> I have, repeatedly, pointed out that all of the emails are being read by the
>> Co-Chairs and the RIPE PDO. Short messages of support or +1s are noted and
>> considered, but this is not a vote. I think I've said that twice now, hopefully
>> the third time will be enough. We have also read the opinions of people about
>> this, however the original statement remains unchanged. If, at the appropriate
>> points, anyone in the working group feels the Co-Chairs have erred in our
>> decision regarding consensus, then there is an appeals process.
>>
>> RIPE 710 covers the whole PDP and section 4 specifically covers appeals -
>> https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-710
>>
>> On the general awareness of the policy, the announcement on 2019-03 was posted
>> to the Policy Announce list and to Routing-WG in addition to here. It has also
>> been raised in a few other locations. Given where we are right now in the
>> initial Discussion Phase and the plans by the authors to produce a v2.0 of the
>> document, I would strongly suggest (but note that it is not certain) that
>> nothing will have been decided by RIPE 78, when even more people will become
>> aware. If people choose not to join the mailing list nor use the RIPE Forum to
>> participate, then there is little the AA-WG can do.
>>
>> So please, especially given all the nice things people have said about the
>> Co-Chairs, and thank you for that, can you trust that we are both seeing all of
>> the messages and treating them as stated, and if you don't agree, there is a
>> process by which you can express this, rather than all going back and forth
>> again here.
>>
>> You can also always contact the Co-Chairs directly on aa-wg-chair at ripe.net
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brian
>> Co-Chair, RIPE AA-WG
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Nisbet
>> Service Operations Manager
>> HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
>> 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
>> +35316609040 brian.nisbet at heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
>> Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
>