[anti-abuse-wg] RIPE Charter

Dear Ron,

All your replies are so long, it makes me stop reading after the first 
paragraph. You got quite a few interesting things to say, but please try 
to say it short. I personally don't have time to read novels on mailing 
lists.

Regards,
Radu

On 08/14/2016 11:02 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> Ms. Fragkouli,
>
> Thank you for providing the Anti-Abuse Working Group with numerical
> information relating to your department's processing of "complaints"
> (which I personally prefer to call "reports") during 2016 and 2015.
>
> Unfortunately, something seems to have been lost in translation, as
> my request made its way to you, and thus, the numbers you provided,
> although interesting, do not actually answer the questions that I was
> was interested in obtaining answers for, as I explain below.
>
> In message <5b6fca31-1033-7120-efb0-7d7e0eb604fe at ripe.net>,
> Athina Fragkouli <athina.fragkouli at ripe.net> wrote:
>
>> So far in 2016... Around four memberships have been terminated for one of
>> these other reasons (submitting fraudulent documents, failure to comply
>> with audits or failure to supply proof of existence).
> Around four?  Would it be possible for you to be  a bit more specific?
>
>> In 2015, we received 319 reports through the form:
>> - 131 were reported as incorrect data in the RIPE Database. 67 of these
>> required further investigation by the RIPE NCC.
>> - 180 cases were reported as policy violations, untruthful information
>> or were related to bankruptcy. 143 of these cases turned out not to be
>> policy violations, seven could not be followed up due to lack of
>> information and five resulted in further inquiries. 25 did indeed
>> concern policy violations, untruthful information, or bankruptcy.
>> - Eight cases were not classified as abuse reports but were investigated
>> nonetheless.
> It is always wonderful to have concrete numbers to work with, except
> of course in cases where the numbers in question have more to do with
> irrelevancies (e.g. the price of tea in China, as we say here) than
> they have to do with the actual topic at hand.
>
> Ms. Fragkouli, I may perhaps be the only one, but I cannot help but
> notice that in and among all of the various figures you've quoted,
> authoritatively, above, there is no number which indicates -either-
> (a) the total number of cases in which RIPE NCC actually did take some
> action, i.e. -any-  action, against any member in 2015 -or- (b) the
> specific number of cases in 2015 in which RIPE NCC took some action
> or actions against a member that was actually relevant to the interests
> and work of the Anti-Abuse Working Group specifically.  (I don't
> believe that any of us here are really all that interested to know
> how many RIPE NCC members went bankrupt in 2015.)
>
> Perhaps I have only failed to read your comments clearly... and if so, I
> do apologize for that... but whereas I see that you have clearly said
> how you and your department -categorized- all of the 2015 reports you
> processed, I do not see any clear statement from you about how many
> actual -actions- against members were instituted in 2015.
>
> I would like to obtain that number, i.e. the number of actual 2015
> actions, not counting financially-related ones.
>
> Ms. Fragkouli, would it perhaps be possible for the RIPE NCC staff to
> provide a number... both for calendar 2015 and also, perhaps, for
> prior years... that would accurately reflect the number of cases (e.g.
> in 2015 at least) where RIPE NCC actually -did- take the action of
> discontinuing the membership of a member for reasons -other than- the
> non-payment of fees or bankruptcy?
>
> To be sure we are clear, it is really only the total number of non-
> financial-related actual termination actions that are of interest here
> in the WG.
>
> If you could provide those numbers, that would be most helpful.
>
> I thank you in advance for your help and participation.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>