SV: [anti-abuse-wg] DRAFT: RIPE proposal - implementation of an
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Michele Neylon :: Blacknight
michele at blacknight.ie
Mon Apr 12 11:53:55 CEST 2010
On 12 Apr 2010, at 10:47, Frank Gadegast wrote: > Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote: >> On 11 Apr 2010, at 16:29, Frank Gadegast , Dipl-Inform. Frank Gadegast wrote: >>> Hi, > > Hi, > >>>> I think the following should be the "easiest" way of reducing spam: >>>> >>>> 1. Adding that the ISP should have a responsibily to reduce spam to the contract between the ISP and RIPE. (If as only adding "ISP should try to reduce spam" with no other details.) >>> Yes, but this has to be formulated a way, that the recipient decides >>> what spam is, so that there has no definition of spam to be included. >>> >>> So: RIPE has to add to the members contract, that the member is responsible >>> for receiving abuse reports and reducing the cause of these reports as much as possible. >> You cannot expect anyone to sign a contract which expects them to take action against something which has not been defined. > > Again, the above sentence is not talking about abuse, its talking about abuse reports, or name it complaints, when you like that more. > You dont need a definition of abuse, if you make the member > responsible for taking care of complaints. > > Abuse is then everything what the recipient or attack person like to complain about, because he feels abused. That is wide open to gaming. Taking care of a complaint can be as simple as closing the ticket. > >>>> 2. Measure how much spam originates from each ISP. >>> Difficult to formulate this way. >>> >>> Better would be: RIPE has to start to messure the amount of abuse reports any member receives. >>> Messurement systems have to include a system run by RIPE NCC and could include >>> other reliable data from souces not related to RIPE. >> This means that all the spam reports would have to go via RIPE which is not a good idea for a multitude of reasons. > > Looks like you did not read the DRAFT at all. > Thats excatly why we need a system at RIPE. > And the pros and cons of such a system are discussed here since last week. And I and others have pointed out why such a centralised system is a fundamentally flawed idea > >>>> 3. Give RIPE possibility to fine the misbehaving ISP or to cancel the agreement in worst case scenario. >>> A big yes, but we will have to find consensus here, whats worse >>> and what punishment could happen, there are a lot of possibilities. >> You cannot expect anyone to agree to being fined without workable definitions > > Again, you dont need a definition. > Its only important that the members takes care about complaints. "Take care" how exactly? You really can't be this vague if you want to modify a contract and introduce censure against RIPE members > >>>> Cons. I dont know if the spamreports on spamcop are reliable or if they can be forged by spammers. I guess their shoud be some way of fixing that problem if that is the case. >>> The system is well known, and most big provider use it >> That's a wonderfully broad sweeping statement. >> Do you have proof to back that up? > > No, and I dont have too, because I sayd, that RIPE needs an own system > to be bullet-proof, toher source "could" be used to proof > own data, nothing more. You are putting forward a proposal which you expect to be taken seriously If you cannot defend it properly why did you even start? > > > Kind regards, Frank > >>>> Martin Tranefjord >>>> >> Mr Michele Neylon >> Blacknight Solutions >> Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection >> ICANN Accredited Registrar >> http://www.blacknight.com/ >> http://blog.blacknight.com/ >> http://mneylon.tel >> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 >> US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 >> Locall: 1850 929 929 >> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon >> ------------------------------- >> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty >> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 > > > -- > > Mit freundlichen Gruessen, > -- > PHADE Software - PowerWeb http://www.powerweb.de > Inh. Dipl.-Inform. Frank Gadegast mailto:frank at powerweb.de > Schinkelstrasse 17 fon: +49 33200 52920 > 14558 Nuthetal OT Rehbruecke, Germany fax: +49 33200 52921 > ====================================================================== > Public PGP Key available for frank at powerweb.de > Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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