[anti-abuse-wg] themes on lists and meetings

> 

Hi,

> "Dipl-Inform. Frank Gadegast" wrote the following on 06/04/2010 19:40:
> >>
> >>> I just discribed one arround launch time.
> >>> RIPE should urged all members to stop spam originating from their networks.
> >>
> >> You did not describe a silver bullet.  The RIPE community has urged
> >> their members to stop spam and abuse for years, RIPE-409 says it quite
> >> plainly, this has been the repeated advice.  There are potential ways of
> >
> > Advise is very different to forcing members to do something and
> > to have sanctions, right ?
> 
> So, you are suggesting a number of measures that the community should 
> ask the NCC to put in place to punish members who are judged, by 
> someone, to be responsible for network abuse?

Sure.

> > (still waiting on a discussion of the system I discribed arround lunch time)
> 
> Are you talking about replicating the Tobias' APNIC proposal in the RIPE 
> region and/or publishing lists of non-responders?  I, the list and, I 

No, Im talking about an abuse-adress like ip1.ip2.ip3.ip4 at abuse.ripe.net
wich forward all incoming abuse reports to the responsible member
I discribed.

> > Well, I see it from my perspective.
> > Developing a own dnsbl basing on the spam our customers receive
> > reduced the problem for us to nearly nothing, but this was hard work
> > and still needs ajustments and further development to keep up
> > with the spammers newest technologies.
> >
> > Adapting this expirience and the expirience from all members
> > for the whole RIPE region and developing regulations for all
> > members cannot be so complicated ...
> 
> It really can.

So were are the constructive ideas and discussion.
Everything I here sound like: doesn work, doesn want ...

> As the agenda will, in no small part, feature presentations and 
> discussions, it is difficult to proceed as you're suggesting, however 
> consensus is not something that is reached purely at meetings.  The 
> mailing list, where more members can participate is, as I've mentioned, 
> the main location for dicussion.  To take, for instance, the IRT object 

But there is no discussion.
And this might be, becuase most discussion currently happens
at the meetings.
Thats why everybody on the list should now, what will be discussed
on the meetings to give feedback BEFORE the meeting ist happening.
If people get the feeling, that there ideas and input are welcome,
they might even appear at the mettings ...

> discussion, it was decided in Lisbon to close that item as no discussion 

Nobody talked about the IRT object before the meeting took place
and thats very sad, because I guess a lot of people would
vote for them.

> had taken place, either at meetings or on the mailing list, for some 
> time, not just because of an action at a meeting.

Its the first time I heard about the IRT object, it was maybe a short
note somewhere in the meeting protocol, but never discussed
on this list.

We need to change this, so that discissions are not only made
by people that can attend meetings.

> >>> goverments ?
> >>> this will make all worse and slower ...
> >>
> >> The aim is to get governments and LEAs onside, to examine policies and
> >
> > Might be your aim, this was not discussed on the list.
> 
> No, this is a oft-stated aim of the NCC and a fair chunk of the 
> community.  In addition, our interactions with governments and the LEAs 
> were clearly referenced and minuted at the Lisbon meeting.  There will 

Again, doing anythign at meetings cuts out the majority of the members,
this is like an oligarchy ...

> be further information presented in Prague (and remember, these meetings 
> can be followed online) and the points raised there will be put forward 
> for further discussion on the mailing list.  We will post what agenda we 
> can, but there's very little to discuss on the list before a meeting, 
> unless some concrete proposals are made.

Thats what the list is for.
The people on the list should give the input for the meetings.
There should be discussions before an agenda will be settled.

> > Well, maybe there will be more ideas coming ...
> 
> For agenda items?

Sure, did anybody ever asked for them ?
Im maybe old and forget a lot, but quickly flicked
through the last mails from the list and did not find anything like
"call for agenda items".

> Well, no, there has not been discussion, equally there has not been any 
> policy proposals.  Discussion will take place on list, should there be 
> things to discuss.

There is a lot to discuss.
- first I would call for agenda items
- then I would call for anti-spam-system hosted by RIPE

Then we should talk in details about all this to finally find the best
ideas and solution and these should be talked about at the meetings.
I bet that lots of people will attend meetings, when their ideas
will find there way to meetings ...


And last I would call everybody to use usefull subjects on this list,
when the themes change, instead of just replying.


Kind regards, Frank
--
PHADE Software - PowerWeb                       http://www.powerweb.de
Inh. Dipl.-Inform. Frank Gadegast             mailto:frank at powerweb.de
Schinkelstrasse 17                                fon: +49 33200 52920
14558 Nuthetal OT Rehbruecke, Germany             fax: +49 33200 52921
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Public PGP Key available for frank at powerweb.de
> 
> Brian.
>