[address-policy-wg] IPv4 waiting list policy

> This should keep your analysts busy for a while :)

A slightly more respectful tone for the hard work performed by the RIPE NCC
analysts to answer not-so-easy questions would be appreciated, Denis.

Regards,
James
co-chair apwg



On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 7:30 PM denis walker <ripedenis at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Marco
>
> I have a few more questions for you so have a clearer picture of what
> is going on here.
>
> -How many of these 98 members have operated the first LIR account for
> a number of years and held a significant amount of IPv4 address space
> with that account?
> (What I am trying to understand is if any of these members were not
> operating at all as an LIR before setting up this series of LIR
> accounts simply to obtain address space they have no intention of
> using but is only to sell.)
>
> -Are any of these 98 organisations transfer brokers?
> (I am sure it does not break any confidentiality rules to identify the
> type of business a group of unnamed members operate.)
>
> -Are any of these 98 organisations based in the USA?
>
> -Over what time period were their other 9 or more accounts created?
>
> -How many of these 1254 /24s have been assigned or are detectably in use?
>
> -What is the most LIRs any one member holds and how many /24s has that
> member obtained?
>
> -How many members have 5-9 LIRs?
>
> -How many /24s have been allocated under the waiting list policy and
> transferred within 6 months of the end of the 2 year holding period?
>
> This should keep your analysts busy for a while :)
>
> cheers
> denis
> co-chair DB-WG
>
>
> btw your document
> https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/ipv4/how-waiting-list-works
> references an outdated version of the IPv4 policy
>
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 at 17:13, Marco Schmidt <mschmidt at ripe.net> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Arash,
> >
> > Thank you for your question.
> >
> > At the moment, we see 98 members with 10 or more LIR accounts. These
> members have received a total of 1254 /24s under the current IPv4 waiting
> list policy.
> >
> > I would like to note that these numbers are constantly changing. On the
> one hand, some members continue to open additional LIR accounts, while
> other members consolidate or close many LIR accounts as soon as the
> 24-month holding period expires. This also explains the slight difference
> from the previously published numbers. Several members that held 10 or more
> accounts when they received /24s have since reduced their number of LIRs.
> >
> > I hope this answers your question.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Marco Schmidt
> > Assistant Manager Registry Services
> > RIPE NCC
> >
> > On 08/12/2021 12:39, Arash Naderpour wrote:
> >
> > Hi Marco,
> >
> > Could you please let me know how many organizations have 10 or more LIR
> accounts?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Arash Naderpour
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:22 PM Marco Schmidt <mschmidt at ripe.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear colleagues,
> >>
> >> In the Address Policy Working Group sessions at RIPE 83, I shared our
> >> observations regarding the IPv4 waiting list policy. [1]
> >>
> >> The intent of this policy was to provide newcomers with a minimal amount
> >> of IPv4 space for as long as possible. However, about half of these
> >> allocations went to members that received several /24 allocations via
> >> multiple LIR accounts.
> >>
> >> As there was interest in reviewing the policy at the RIPE Meeting, I
> >> would like to provide more detail on the provision of IPv4 allocations
> >> over the last two years and the current situation with the waiting list.
> >>
> >> In the last 24 months, we provided 4,178 LIRs with a /24 allocation:
> >> -    2,019 allocations (48%) went to members with a single LIR account
> >> -    452 allocations (11%) went to members with 2-4 LIR accounts
> >> -    298 allocations (7%) went to members with 5-9 LIR accounts and
> >> -    1,409 allocations (34%) went to members with 10 or more LIR
> >> accounts (up to 33 /24 allocations to a single member)
> >>
> >> This trend towards allocations to multiple LIR accounts has accelerated
> >> in the past six months. Between June and November 2021, only 24% of
> >> allocations went to members with a single LIR account, while 54% went to
> >> members with 10 or more accounts.
> >>
> >> We see the same trend with the current waiting list. At the time of
> >> writing, we can see 327 requests for a /24 allocation:
> >> -    83 (25%) are from members with a single LIR account
> >> -    42 (13%) are from members with 2-4 LIRs accounts
> >> -    45 (14%) are from members with 5-9 LIR accounts
> >> -    157 (48%) are from members with 10 or more LIR accounts
> >>
> >> Consequently, there is a significantly longer wait time for members with
> >> a single LIR account.
> >>
> >> Looking at the current market prices for IPv4 in comparison to our
> >> membership fees, even a wait time of several months is acceptable for
> >> organisations that plan to transfer their allocation after the end of
> >> the holding period. Conversely, the long wait time will create
> >> uncertainty for real newcomers, especially if they can’t rely on
> >> IPv6-only networks.
> >>
> >> I hope the WG finds this information useful for further discussion. If
> >> there is consensus to change the current situation, there are several
> >> approaches available – including a review of the waiting list policy and
> >> changing ‘per LIR’ to something else. Other approaches, such as a
> >> different charging scheme or changing the concept of multiple LIRs would
> >> need to be approved by the RIPE NCC membership.
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Marco Schmidt
> >> Assistant Manager Registry Services
> >> RIPE NCC
> >>
> >> [1] https://ripe83.ripe.net/archives/video/642/
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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