[address-policy-wg] question about IPv4 legacy and transfers - should we convert legacy to non-legacy with transfers?

Hi Gert,

And of course transfers have been possible before the RIRs existed :-)
- whether or not they are "booked transfers" depends a bit on "in which
book" - I'm fairly sure you could send a mail to Jon Postel "I have given
this class B to my friend because I do not need it anymore" and that was
subsequently recorded.

Of course not in "the RIPE NCC book", since that did not exist.

>I remain of the opinion that booked transfers did not happen before the RIR
system, if only due to the presence of free addresses available with a
similar mail to Jon Postel. I would love to find evidence that they did, but
the fact remains that selling addresses was not contemplated at the time of
the creation of the RIR system, and the ability to safely sell them via a
change in the RIR registration is a new service. There is an argument as to
whether new services should be afforded to non-dues paying legacy holders.
You mention that there seems to be little support, but look at ARIN and RPKI
for evidence supporting Jordi's opinion, read Scott Liebrand's post about
ARIN's deliberations, and my own, for some measure of support for Jordi's
problem statement, if the policies at every other registry are not evidence
enough.


I should point out one of the usual counterarguments against imposing too
much bureaucracy, especially regarding transfers.  We want proper
documentation.  Before almost everything else(!).  Impose extra restrictions
on transfers, and some people will decide that this is too much hassle and
just do it under the desk, with creative contracts ("we do not transfer this
network, I just lease it to you for 10 years").

>This situation pertains to all transfers, and sometimes a 10 year lease is
just a 10 year lease, when it's paid monthly. But as for disguising legacy
sales by doing them in this manner, you are quite mistaken. Nobody is
spending $20 per address and then not having his ownership recorded in
Whois. Or virtually nobody. Nobody I know, and I have done over 750
transfers beginning in the early 2000s.  If the buyer doesn't get recorded,
there is nothing but fighting in court to prevent the subsequent re-sale of
the block by the registrant. No buyer wants to risk waking up to find "his"
block is now registered to somebody else in Whois, and the original
registrant absconded with the money and disappeared. 

>However your point about too much bureaucracy is well-taken, and I support
efforts to remove the delays, bureaucracies, and unnecessary restrictions
that would tend to drive transfers underground. Among these I include
waiting periods and needs tests, and in those regards I am certainly in an
un-supported position! 

Regards,
Mike