From aleksbulgakov at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 19:40:38 2016 From: aleksbulgakov at gmail.com (Aleksey Bulgakov) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:40:38 +0300 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: References: <2AC4DD6E-25FC-4A72-AAA3-E91D7FC8CBC2@gmail.com> <5762C838.8080008@foobar.org> <4cfbe3aa-3837-c087-6137-edd982f1437d@velea.eu> <20160617074128.651f15f6@echo.ms.redpill-linpro.com> <466580db-8b7b-b584-5397-6141fa980f78@wirem.net> Message-ID: Hi. I think, it is time to withdraw this proposal due to we haven't reached the consensus. 2016-06-23 8:43 GMT+03:00 Riccardo Gori : > Hi Tore, Hi Elvis, > I opened the ticket and I can confirm Tore clarification on that. > > Il 17/06/2016 08:09, Riccardo Gori ha scritto: > > Hi, > > Il 17/06/2016 07:41, Tore Anderson ha scritto: > > * Elvis Daniel Velea > > Additionally, it would still apply retroactively and people which since > 2012 until 'yesterday' were allocated PA/transferable IPs (2 years after > the moment of the allocation) will end up with an allocation that is no > longer transferable. > > Elvis, while there are valid arguments against this proposal, this is > not one of them. > > If it was, then we could essentially just disband the AP-GW as pretty > much every single policy proposal ever made would "apply > retroactively". Including the ones that made various forms of transfers > possible in the first place; suddenly, many old non-transferable blocks > were "retroactively" changed to become transferable. > > Note that the RIPE NCC SSA says: > > > Article 6 ? Compliance > > 6.1 The Member acknowledges applicability of, and adheres to, the RIPE > Policies and RIPE NCC procedural documents. The RIPE Policies and the > RIPE NCC procedural documents are publicly available from the RIPE NCC > Document Store. These documents, which may be revised and updated from > time to time, form an integral part of and apply fully to the RIPE NCC > Standard Service Agreement. > > A member who believes that transferability is an immutable and > everlasting property of address space has not read what they've signed. > > If this proposal truly "applied retroactively" with regards to > transfers, it would have had to annul all the transfers *made prior to > its adoption* and stated the previously transferred address space was > to be forcibly returned to its original holder or the NCC. > > Alrticle 6: > This is the part of the agreement I like most 'cause confirms that > community policies can change everything even on already allocated space. > Only as fantasy examples: forbid transfer, return space or annual fees per > held IP . > I think the community alway choosed to go the esiest and fairier path. > Elvis policy extended the current 24 months restriction to all PA space > held by members and fixed the loophole of newly allocated that avoided the > restriction. > I consider it fair. > > I do not like policy proposals that apply retroactively > > Uhm, so what about your 2015-01 proposal then? That one "applied > retroactively" no less than this one. > > I don't think 2015-01 apply retroactively. > I think allocation made before implementation of 2015-01 are free from > limitations. > I'll open a ticket about it and check and let you know. > > Confirmed Tore point. > > Anyway. I withdraw my earlier objection to 2016-03. I'm not at all > convinced it's a good idea or worth the trouble, but if the community > really wants to go down this road I won't try to block the path. > Consider me neutral/abstaining. > > Tore > > > regards > Riccardo > -- > > Ing. Riccardo Gori > e-mail: rgori at wirem.net > Mobile: +39 339 8925947 > Mobile: +34 602 009 437 > Profile: https://it.linkedin.com/in/riccardo-gori-74201943 > > WIREM Fiber Revolution > Net-IT s.r.l. > Via Cesare Montanari, 2 > 47521 Cesena (FC) > Tel +39 0547 1955485 > Fax +39 0547 1950285 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons > above and may contain confidential information. If you have received > the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof > is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete > the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by re- > plying to info at wirem.net > Thank you > WIREM - Net-IT s.r.l.Via Cesare Montanari, 2 - 47521 Cesena (FC) > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > regards > Riccardo > -- > > Ing. Riccardo Gori > e-mail: rgori at wirem.net > > WIREM Fiber Revolution > Net-IT s.r.l. > Via Cesare Montanari, 2 > 47521 Cesena (FC) > Tel +39 0547 1955485 > Fax +39 0547 1950285 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons > above and may contain confidential information. If you have received > the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof > is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete > the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by re- > plying to info at wirem.net > Thank you > WIREM - Net-IT s.r.l.Via Cesare Montanari, 2 - 47521 Cesena (FC) > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- ---------- Best regards, Aleksey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 41774 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gert at space.net Thu Jul 21 20:07:57 2016 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:07:57 +0200 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: References: <2AC4DD6E-25FC-4A72-AAA3-E91D7FC8CBC2@gmail.com> <5762C838.8080008@foobar.org> <4cfbe3aa-3837-c087-6137-edd982f1437d@velea.eu> <20160617074128.651f15f6@echo.ms.redpill-linpro.com> <466580db-8b7b-b584-5397-6141fa980f78@wirem.net> Message-ID: <20160721180757.GL79185@Space.Net> Hi, On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:40:38PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: > I think, it is time to withdraw this proposal due to we haven't reached the > consensus. This is not your call to make. Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aleksbulgakov at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 20:10:15 2016 From: aleksbulgakov at gmail.com (Aleksey Bulgakov) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 21:10:15 +0300 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <20160721180757.GL79185@Space.Net> References: <2AC4DD6E-25FC-4A72-AAA3-E91D7FC8CBC2@gmail.com> <5762C838.8080008@foobar.org> <4cfbe3aa-3837-c087-6137-edd982f1437d@velea.eu> <20160617074128.651f15f6@echo.ms.redpill-linpro.com> <466580db-8b7b-b584-5397-6141fa980f78@wirem.net> <20160721180757.GL79185@Space.Net> Message-ID: I just looked at https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/current-proposals/current-policy-proposals no more. 2016-07-21 21:07 GMT+03:00 Gert Doering : > Hi, > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:40:38PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: >> I think, it is time to withdraw this proposal due to we haven't reached the >> consensus. > > This is not your call to make. > > Gert Doering > -- APWG chair > -- > have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? > > SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann > D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) > Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -- ---------- Best regards, Aleksey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29 From gert at space.net Thu Jul 21 20:13:15 2016 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:13:15 +0200 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: References: <2AC4DD6E-25FC-4A72-AAA3-E91D7FC8CBC2@gmail.com> <5762C838.8080008@foobar.org> <4cfbe3aa-3837-c087-6137-edd982f1437d@velea.eu> <20160617074128.651f15f6@echo.ms.redpill-linpro.com> <466580db-8b7b-b584-5397-6141fa980f78@wirem.net> <20160721180757.GL79185@Space.Net> Message-ID: <20160721181315.GO79185@Space.Net> Hi, On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:10:15PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: > I just looked at > https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/current-proposals/current-policy-proposals > no more. It is time to make a *decision*, this is true. Whether or not the decision is to withdraw or not, or whether we have reached (rough) consensus is the WG chairs job, not yours. Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From aleksbulgakov at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 20:14:45 2016 From: aleksbulgakov at gmail.com (Aleksey Bulgakov) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 21:14:45 +0300 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <20160721181315.GO79185@Space.Net> References: <2AC4DD6E-25FC-4A72-AAA3-E91D7FC8CBC2@gmail.com> <5762C838.8080008@foobar.org> <4cfbe3aa-3837-c087-6137-edd982f1437d@velea.eu> <20160617074128.651f15f6@echo.ms.redpill-linpro.com> <466580db-8b7b-b584-5397-6141fa980f78@wirem.net> <20160721180757.GL79185@Space.Net> <20160721181315.GO79185@Space.Net> Message-ID: I just tell the fact, no more :) 2016-07-21 21:13 GMT+03:00 Gert Doering : > Hi, > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:10:15PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: >> I just looked at >> https://www.ripe.net/participate/policies/current-proposals/current-policy-proposals >> no more. > > It is time to make a *decision*, this is true. > > Whether or not the decision is to withdraw or not, or whether we have > reached (rough) consensus is the WG chairs job, not yours. > > Gert Doering > -- APWG chair > -- > have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? > > SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann > D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) > Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -- ---------- Best regards, Aleksey Bulgakov Tel.: +7 (926)690-87-29 From rgori at wirem.net Thu Jul 21 21:29:08 2016 From: rgori at wirem.net (Riccardo Gori) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 21:29:08 +0200 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <20160721180757.GL79185@Space.Net> References: <2AC4DD6E-25FC-4A72-AAA3-E91D7FC8CBC2@gmail.com> <5762C838.8080008@foobar.org> <4cfbe3aa-3837-c087-6137-edd982f1437d@velea.eu> <20160617074128.651f15f6@echo.ms.redpill-linpro.com> <466580db-8b7b-b584-5397-6141fa980f78@wirem.net> <20160721180757.GL79185@Space.Net> Message-ID: I see he said "I think". I think list exists because everyone should be left free to express his own opinion, that's not taking decision. regards Riccardo Il 21/07/2016 20:07, Gert Doering ha scritto: > Hi, > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:40:38PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: >> I think, it is time to withdraw this proposal due to we haven't reached the >> consensus. > This is not your call to make. > > Gert Doering > -- APWG chair -- Ing. Riccardo Gori e-mail: rgori at wirem.net Mobile: +39 339 8925947 Mobile: +34 602 009 437 Profile: https://it.linkedin.com/in/riccardo-gori-74201943 WIREM Fiber Revolution Net-IT s.r.l. Via Cesare Montanari, 2 47521 Cesena (FC) Tel +39 0547 1955485 Fax +39 0547 1950285 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by re- plying to info at wirem.net Thank you WIREM - Net-IT s.r.l.Via Cesare Montanari, 2 - 47521 Cesena (FC) -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: logoWirem_4cm_conR.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 41774 bytes Desc: not available URL: From remco.vanmook at gmail.com Thu Jul 21 21:35:07 2016 From: remco.vanmook at gmail.com (=?utf-8?B?cmVtY28udmFubW9va0BnbWFpbC5jb20=?=) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 20:35:07 +0100 Subject: [address-policy-wg] =?utf-8?q?2016-03_Discussion_Period_extended_?= =?utf-8?q?until_15_July_2016_=28Locking_Down_the_Final_/8_Policy=29?= Message-ID: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> He thought it needed to be withdrawn because he concluded that there was no consensus - and that conclusion is not his to make. So that's what Gert responded to. Remco Sent from my HTC ----- Reply message ----- From: "Riccardo Gori" To: Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) Date: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 20:29 I see he said "I think". I think list exists because everyone should be left free to express his own opinion, that's not taking decision. regards Riccardo Il 21/07/2016 20:07, Gert Doering ha scritto: Hi, On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:40:38PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: I think, it is time to withdraw this proposal due to we haven't reached the consensus. This is not your call to make. Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- Ing. Riccardo Gori e-mail: rgori at wirem.net Mobile: +39 339 8925947 Mobile: +34 602 009 437 Profile: https://it.linkedin.com/in/riccardo-gori-74201943 WIREM Fiber Revolution Net-IT s.r.l. Via Cesare Montanari, 2 47521 Cesena (FC) Tel +39 0547 1955485 Fax +39 0547 1950285 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by re- plying to info at wirem.net Thank you WIREM - Net-IT s.r.l.Via Cesare Montanari, 2 - 47521 Cesena (FC) -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rgori at wirem.net Thu Jul 21 21:55:37 2016 From: rgori at wirem.net (Riccardo Gori) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 21:55:37 +0200 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <29eb6cb0-2328-7b7e-a355-065b5e1a62c4@wirem.net> Hi Remco, In some way I agree with you and Gert but I think everyone should be left free to express his own opinion regarding numbers policies as well as consensus. In my point of view starting a sentence with "I think" or "let's withdraw" doesn't change the meaning of expressing your own opinion. That's not taking decision on it and looks pretty clear that declaring consensus or not it's chairs job. regards Riccardo Il 21/07/2016 21:35, remco.vanmook at gmail.com ha scritto: > He thought it needed to be withdrawn because he concluded that there > was no consensus - and that conclusion is not his to make. So that's > what Gert responded to. > > Remco > > Sent from my HTC > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Riccardo Gori" > To: > Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until > 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) > Date: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 20:29 > > I see he said "I think". > I think list exists because everyone should be left free to express > his own opinion, that's not taking decision. > regards > Riccardo > > Il 21/07/2016 20:07, Gert Doering ha scritto: >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:40:38PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: >>> I think, it is time to withdraw this proposal due to we haven't reached the >>> consensus. >> This is not your call to make. >> >> Gert Doering >> -- APWG chair > > -- > Ing. Riccardo Gori > e-mail:rgori at wirem.net > Mobile: +39 339 8925947 > Mobile: +34 602 009 437 > Profile:https://it.linkedin.com/in/riccardo-gori-74201943 > WIREM Fiber Revolution > Net-IT s.r.l. > Via Cesare Montanari, 2 > 47521 Cesena (FC) > Tel +39 0547 1955485 > Fax +39 0547 1950285 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons > above and may contain confidential information. If you have received > the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof > is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete > the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by re- > plying toinfo at wirem.net > Thank you > WIREM - Net-IT s.r.l.Via Cesare Montanari, 2 - 47521 Cesena (FC) > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Ing. Riccardo Gori e-mail: rgori at wirem.net Mobile: +39 339 8925947 Mobile: +34 602 009 437 Profile: https://it.linkedin.com/in/riccardo-gori-74201943 WIREM Fiber Revolution Net-IT s.r.l. Via Cesare Montanari, 2 47521 Cesena (FC) Tel +39 0547 1955485 Fax +39 0547 1950285 -------------------------------------------------------------------- CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by re- plying to info at wirem.net Thank you WIREM - Net-IT s.r.l.Via Cesare Montanari, 2 - 47521 Cesena (FC) -------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: logoWirem_4cm_conR.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 41774 bytes Desc: not available URL: From elvis at v4escrow.net Thu Jul 21 22:14:24 2016 From: elvis at v4escrow.net (Elvis Daniel Velea) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 23:14:24 +0300 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> Hi, just wondering why the page still says Awaiting Decision from Proposer - *15 July 2016* Since you are around to respond, any idea when you you take a decision? regards, elvis On 7/21/16 10:35 PM, remco.vanmook at gmail.com wrote: > He thought it needed to be withdrawn because he concluded that there > was no consensus - and that conclusion is not his to make. So that's > what Gert responded to. > > Remco > > Sent from my HTC > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Riccardo Gori" > To: > Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until > 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) > Date: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 20:29 > > I see he said "I think". > I think list exists because everyone should be left free to express > his own opinion, that's not taking decision. > regards > Riccardo > > Il 21/07/2016 20:07, Gert Doering ha scritto: >> Hi, >> >> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:40:38PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: >>> I think, it is time to withdraw this proposal due to we haven't reached the >>> consensus. >> This is not your call to make. >> >> Gert Doering >> -- APWG chair > > -- > Ing. Riccardo Gori > e-mail:rgori at wirem.net > Mobile: +39 339 8925947 > Mobile: +34 602 009 437 > Profile:https://it.linkedin.com/in/riccardo-gori-74201943 > WIREM Fiber Revolution > Net-IT s.r.l. > Via Cesare Montanari, 2 > 47521 Cesena (FC) > Tel +39 0547 1955485 > Fax +39 0547 1950285 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons > above and may contain confidential information. If you have received > the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof > is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete > the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by re- > plying toinfo at wirem.net > Thank you > WIREM - Net-IT s.r.l.Via Cesare Montanari, 2 - 47521 Cesena (FC) > -------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Elvis Daniel Velea Chief Executive Officer E-mail: elvis at V4Escrow.net Mobile: +1 (702) 970 0921 Recognised IPv4 Broker/Facilitator in: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mcjemfjgipfnmgnm.png Type: image/png Size: 5043 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: khbcbddejglhnglo.png Type: image/png Size: 12287 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gert at space.net Thu Jul 21 22:22:46 2016 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 22:22:46 +0200 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> Message-ID: <20160721202246.GT79185@Space.Net> Hi, On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:14:24PM +0300, Elvis Daniel Velea wrote: > just wondering why the page still says Awaiting Decision from Proposer - > *15 July 2016* > > Since you are around to respond, any idea when you you take a decision? The discussion was... complicated. This needs some quiet time to wade through all the mails again, try to make sense of some of the more confused ones, see if they actually contain points that could have been addressed or not, and whether they *have* been addressed, and so on. I've had easier discussion to judge, and less repetitive-nonsensical ones. Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From elvis at v4escrow.net Thu Jul 21 22:35:14 2016 From: elvis at v4escrow.net (Elvis Daniel Velea) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 23:35:14 +0300 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> Message-ID: <8bcae19c-2ce0-11e6-5fc3-e68783ebf82b@v4escrow.net> Hi again, fatty fingers, wanted to still edit the last line and hit the wrong key... On 7/21/16 11:14 PM, Elvis Daniel Velea wrote: > > Hi, > > just wondering why the page still says Awaiting Decision from Proposer > - *15 July 2016* > > Since you are around to respond, any idea when you you take a decision? this was meant to say: Since you are around to respond, any idea when you will make that decision? It's almost a week overdue. cheers, elvis > > regards, > elvis > > On 7/21/16 10:35 PM, remco.vanmook at gmail.com wrote: >> He thought it needed to be withdrawn because he concluded that there >> was no consensus - and that conclusion is not his to make. So that's >> what Gert responded to. >> >> Remco >> >> Sent from my HTC >> >> ----- Reply message ----- >> From: "Riccardo Gori" >> To: >> Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until >> 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) >> Date: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 20:29 >> >> I see he said "I think". >> I think list exists because everyone should be left free to express >> his own opinion, that's not taking decision. >> regards >> Riccardo >> >> Il 21/07/2016 20:07, Gert Doering ha scritto: >>> Hi, >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 08:40:38PM +0300, Aleksey Bulgakov wrote: >>>> I think, it is time to withdraw this proposal due to we haven't reached the >>>> consensus. >>> This is not your call to make. >>> >>> Gert Doering >>> -- APWG chair >> >> -- >> Ing. Riccardo Gori >> e-mail:rgori at wirem.net >> Mobile: +39 339 8925947 >> Mobile: +34 602 009 437 >> Profile:https://it.linkedin.com/in/riccardo-gori-74201943 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elvis at v4escrow.net Thu Jul 21 22:40:43 2016 From: elvis at v4escrow.net (Elvis Daniel Velea) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 23:40:43 +0300 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <20160721202246.GT79185@Space.Net> References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> <20160721202246.GT79185@Space.Net> Message-ID: Hi Gert, On 7/21/16 11:22 PM, Gert Doering wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:14:24PM +0300, Elvis Daniel Velea wrote: >> just wondering why the page still says Awaiting Decision from Proposer - >> *15 July 2016* >> >> Since you are around to respond, any idea when you you take a decision? > The discussion was... complicated. This needs some quiet time to wade > through all the mails again, try to make sense of some of the more > confused ones, see if they actually contain points that could have been > addressed or not, and whether they *have* been addressed, and so on. > > I've had easier discussion to judge, and less repetitive-nonsensical ones. it says awaiting decision from _proposer_ and not from WG Chairs. That is why I was asking the proposer. cheers, elvis > > Gert Doering > -- APWG chair -- Elvis Daniel Velea Chief Executive Officer E-mail: elvis at V4Escrow.net Mobile: +1 (702) 970 0921 Recognised IPv4 Broker/Facilitator in: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: lfgfnjhofnhlgdbk.png Type: image/png Size: 5043 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fadchefocfomocli.png Type: image/png Size: 12287 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sander at steffann.nl Fri Jul 22 00:41:54 2016 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 00:41:54 +0200 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> <20160721202246.GT79185@Space.Net> Message-ID: <97D14B0F-81C1-4703-A852-D9C94ED71096@steffann.nl> Hi Elvis, >> I've had easier discussion to judge, and less repetitive-nonsensical ones. > > it says awaiting decision from proposer and not from WG Chairs. That is why I was asking the proposer. Just for clarity, this is what the PDP says: > [RIPE-642 section 2.2] > At the end of the Discussion Phase, the proposer, with the agreement of the WG chair, decides whether the proposal will move to the next phase (Review Phase) or if it should be withdrawn from the RIPE PDP, depending on the feedback received. This should be done no more than four weeks after the end of the Discussion Phase. So the chairs need to make up their minds about if they can agree with the proposer. This involves a lot of manual work (as Gert said: analysing the mailing list archives etc) so this takes time. The discussion phase ended on 15 July. And the four week period that is common for that type of decision hasn't expired yet. And even if it had, it says "should be done" not "must be done", so if we stick to the definitions of RFC2119 that timeline may be changed if circumstances require. In short: if you're going to be pedantic please read the relevant documents first. The discussion phase has ended. The microphones are closed. And give your chairs some breathing room to do their (volunteer) jobs properly. Cheers, Sander PS: because I got involved in the discussion and questioned some people's statements to keep the discussion honest I am abstaining on any decisions regarding this proposal to avoid any semblance of conflict of interest. This means Gert is doing all the hard work all by himself... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 455 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From elvis at velea.eu Fri Jul 22 01:34:28 2016 From: elvis at velea.eu (Elvis Daniel Velea) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 02:34:28 +0300 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: <97D14B0F-81C1-4703-A852-D9C94ED71096@steffann.nl> References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> <20160721202246.GT79185@Space.Net> <97D14B0F-81C1-4703-A852-D9C94ED71096@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Hi Sander, On 7/22/16 1:41 AM, Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi Elvis, > >>> I've had easier discussion to judge, and less repetitive-nonsensical ones. >> it says awaiting decision from proposer and not from WG Chairs. That is why I was asking the proposer. > Just for clarity, this is what the PDP says: > >> [RIPE-642 section 2.2] >> At the end of the Discussion Phase, the proposer, with the agreement of the WG chair, decides whether the proposal will move to the next phase (Review Phase) or if it should be withdrawn from the RIPE PDP, depending on the feedback received. This should be done no more than four weeks after the end of the Discussion Phase. than maybe it should be made clearer on the webpage. While I do appreciate the 'upgrade' of the page - it used to be worse - it can be improved :) > > So the chairs need to make up their minds about if they can agree with the proposer. This involves a lot of manual work (as Gert said: analysing the mailing list archives etc) so this takes time. The discussion phase ended on 15 July. And the four week period that is common for that type of decision hasn't expired yet. And even if it had, it says "should be done" not "must be done", so if we stick to the definitions of RFC2119 that timeline may be changed if circumstances require. > > In short: if you're going to be pedantic please read the relevant documents first. The discussion phase has ended. The microphones are closed. And give your chairs some breathing room to do their (volunteer) jobs properly. I have, many times, I used to refer to the same documentation when I was a part-time trainer at the NCC :) Again, the website says the phase is complete and is "Awaiting Decision from the Proposer". Maybe it should still be 'green' and not 'blue' and maybe it should say something else and not 'awaiting a decision from someone until one week ago'. For example, maybe it should say - Discussion Period ended on July 15th - 1-4 weeks until next phase/decision. Or maybe it should have more columns, one for each phase in this process (+ one for each of the periods in between the phases). > Cheers, > Sander > > PS: because I got involved in the discussion and questioned some people's statements to keep the discussion honest I am abstaining on any decisions regarding this proposal to avoid any semblance of conflict of interest. This means Gert is doing all the hard work all by himself... > while I appreciate your position, I was under the impression that Gert - with his replies on June 20th - did take sides more than you did. I will leave it to the WG Chairs Collective to decide if he did take sides or not and whether any of you can still decide consensus on this policy proposal (ripe-642 3.1 &4). I do not intend to submit an appeal unless this policy proposal moves forward to Review Phase.. so I am waiting for the decision of the proposer - as the website says :) regards, Elvis From gert at space.net Fri Jul 22 08:44:10 2016 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 08:44:10 +0200 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> <20160721202246.GT79185@Space.Net> Message-ID: <20160722064410.GV79185@Space.Net> Hi, On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 11:40:43PM +0300, Elvis Daniel Velea wrote: > it says awaiting decision from _proposer_ and not from WG Chairs. That > is why I was asking the proposer. This is not totally clear in the label: the decision is made jointly by proposer and WG chair(s). The proposer cannot say "oh, go ahead!" when the chairs do not see consensus. (The proposer *can* say "withdraw!" without chair approval, though :) ). (You know that from your own proposals, anyway) Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gert at space.net Fri Jul 22 08:51:05 2016 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 08:51:05 +0200 Subject: [address-policy-wg] 2016-03 Discussion Period extended until 15 July 2016 (Locking Down the Final /8 Policy) In-Reply-To: References: <579123eb.53b81c0a.1449c.1230@mx.google.com> <3bf1419d-103b-c1bf-cce0-cf9960c5ad93@v4escrow.net> <20160721202246.GT79185@Space.Net> <97D14B0F-81C1-4703-A852-D9C94ED71096@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <20160722065105.GW79185@Space.Net> Hi, On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 02:34:28AM +0300, Elvis Daniel Velea wrote: > I do not intend to submit an appeal unless this policy proposal moves > forward to Review Phase.. so I am waiting for the decision of the > proposer - as the website says :) So we have two participants now trying to force the chair's hand, right? What you say above can be paraphrased to "if we *do* move it forward, you're going to submit an appeal", right? Alexsey says "there is no consensus, so it should be withdrawn". I hope you understand why this is fully and totally unacceptable (to avoid using far less polite words). You are free to *think* what you expect the result will be, and you are free to appeal afterwards if you do not accept the summary and reasoning(!) given by the chair(s), but threatening action beforehand in case the desired outcome is not to your liking is... amazing. Gert Doering -- APWG chair -- have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: