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[address-policy-wg] Transfer Requirements for IPv4 Allocations
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John Springer
springer at inlandnet.com
Sat Apr 25 00:59:48 CEST 2015
Hi Erik, Well stated. I also congratulate Elvis for volunteering to do this work for the community. John Springer On Thu, 23 Apr 2015, Erik Bais wrote: > Hi Milton, > >> Erik: >> Have you responded to the analysis of Vladimir Andreev which shows that > the impact of this practice is minimal? > >> From: address-policy-wg [mailto:address-policy-wg-bounces at ripe.net] On > Behalf Of Erik Bais >> The goal of this proposal is to stop the abuse of opening a new LIR, > transferring the /22 for profit to another LIR and close the LIR. >> As it is against the original intent of the final /8 last /22 procedure > (https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-643#51 ) > > But I'll gladly reply to it .. > > His analyses goes wrong at the following line : > >> Looking at listed items I can suppose either Elvis is angry at people > earning money or really /22 reselling is bad for RIPE and its community. > > That is a false assumption and an incorrect stab in the back at Elvis, a > well known community member, who stepped up at the last RIPE meeting and > offered to write the proposal after the RIPE NCC pointed out that they have > seen an increase in this practice and are warning about this as a new > practice which is against the intent of the actual policy. > > As a broker and a community member myself, having written several policies > myself, what one might do for the community, may not always align with > someone their business processes. > I've written the policy to allow RPKI for NON-Members .. A policy to remove > the multi-homing requirement for PI IPv6 .. a policy to allow the transfer > of IPv6 prefixes .. > I think that I can safely say that it is a cheap stab in the back to even > HINT ... that personal agenda's are behind this proposal .. There is more at > stake here than a the business we do (out-side the RIPE mailing list or RIPE > meetings.. ) and the one that is paying our mortgage ... either as an ISP > or a broker. . . > > Stating that brokers are behind it ... and that getting IP's via a sign-up > of a new LIR is something that is hurting the broker business ... that is > just false. > I know most of the brokers in the community ... and I agree with Vladimir in > his analysis .. this has less than minimal impact ... ( as I see it with a > broker hat on .. ) > > The intent for the reservation from the final /8 is for new companies to > start an ISP in the next 6 to 10 years .. is why this was put into the > policy ... Because it is close to impossible to start without ANY ipv4 .. > And as a bit it more than nothing .. that is why this has been put into > policy .. Simply because you can't do any CGNAT .. if you don't have ANY > IPv4 ... This way at least you have an option .. besides building a v6 only > network. > > The fact that Vladimir points out that the policy CURRENTLY may not be > abused as much as one might think ... that does not mean that for the cases > where it is clearly abused... it didn't happen. > > I think that reading the discussion at the mailing list .. that the intent > of some of the people in this community as different as one might hope for.. > > Personally I don't care if people are going to open a new LIR for themselves > or if they are going to use the gained resources in order to sell them ... > > What I do care about is that the reason why the initial reservation was done > in the first place .. from that final /8.. with all good and noble > intentions of the proposers at that time ... has now become a cheap loophole > for some to be used for their own benefit, with the possible side-effect > that others in this very same community will be left out in the future, > because we did plan for new entries .. but didn't care enough to fix the > loopholes we noticed down the line. > > Will this proposal fix the issue to dis-allow a second /22 from the final /8 > in the same LIR ? Nope. It is still possible to get a /22 transferred into > an LIR that already holds a /22 from the final /8. > And it is will also still be possible to do a M&A of an LIR into another LIR > .. and then you will also have 2 * a /22 from the final /8 ... > > So is it perfect ? No ... > > But .. will it make the initial intent of the policy more clear ? or will it > move the policy into the right direction ? YES ... > Will this have a significant impact on slowing down the consumption rate of > the actual reserved pool in the final /8 ? Not really .. Similar as > proposing to revoke all un-routed IPv4 space back to the RIR .. and start > re-issuing it ... > That only delays the inevitable .... APNIC is out, RIPE is out ... ARIN is > down to the last .23 of their final /8 ... There is no future in IPv4 beyond > 7 years ... ( Is my humble guess.. ) > > Who knows .. the next Whatsapp or Twitter might come from that one company > that registers as an LIR in that delayed 4 weeks because of this proposal > ... > > So, to close of the argument here .. kudo's to Elvis for writing the > proposal .. I'm glad to see that it is going to be fixed, because it is the > right thing to do.. > > Please let me know if you have any additional questions. > > Regards, > Erik Bais > > > > > > > > > > >
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