[address-policy-wg] IPv6 PI request is turned down for my multihomed hosting facility - Why?

Hi Jan, 

 

I come across customers who want to get into IPv6 and have their own IP
addresses. However they don't want to multi-home (yet), they want to have
the flexibility to change providers if needed without having to re-number
their complete infrastructure / vpn devices / dns servers etc etc 

 

The only way for those customers to help them currently is to tell them to:

 

A: become a LIR, pay 3300 euro sign-up and yearly cost for the first year.
And nobody will ask if you are going to multi-home or not.  There are plenty
of LIR's who are not multi-homed or just have some other company run their
IP space under another AS.  

B: Request PI IPv6, invest in multi-homing equipment and knowledge, connect
to a competitor and proceed. 

 

As LIR's don't have the requirement to multihome their IP space, means that
the community is in agreement that this PI IPv6 space required a hurdle in
order to stop a wild-growth on the IPv6 routing table growth, however if
someone pays their way into the community (become a LIR), nobody cares
anymore about the routing table growth and we gladly take your money and
proceed. 

 

Having said that, this is a financial decision and not a technical routing
table growth mediation rule. And it should be treated as such. The proposal
change I've done is to remove the multi-homing requirement, and ask the GM
meeting to increase the cost for PI IPv6 from 50 euro to 250 euro to keep
all things equal. That would still allow customers who want their own PI
IPv6 to be able to request it for their own infrastructure, without having
them to force them into my competitors arms or having them to shell-out 3300
euro to become a LIR, if they don't want to become a LIR for their specific
reasons. 

 

There is no difference for those kind of customers in the routing table if
you would receive a /32 (new LIR) or a /48 (new PI IPv6 without
multi-homing). 

 

On the part of colocation services as what you are doing / describing (your
customer financially OWNS their servers), that is against the intention of
PI (both IPv4 and IPv6) space. And as such your request got denied is my
guess. 

 

Regards,

Erik Bais  

 

 

From: Jan Tuomi [mailto:tuomi at ventiro.se] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:02 PM
To: Erik Bais
Cc: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] IPv6 PI request is turned down for my
multihomed hosting facility - Why?

 

Hi Erik,

 

Why remove the multi-homing requirement? if you are not multihomed you could
go with the PA-space you get from your single upstream provider?

 

My problem is that I actually am multi-homed, therefor I need IPv6-PI....

And if my customers have their servers in my facility they also are
multihomed? So they could request for their own PI? that really doesnt make
sensee, that would really clog down the routing tables....

 

The hosting network is today set up so each customer get their own IPv4 /29
of Private addresses, then I NAT a public IP on a first come-first served
basis.

The reason they have an own IPv4 Net on the inside is to gain some security
between servers in the facility...

 

With IPv6 I obviously dont want to use NAT, so I will set up a small IPv6
Network for each server, just as i do with IPv4, but without the NAT-part..
So instead of setting up a singe IP to the server I set up a network, but
basically its the same...

 

so the change request about removing multi-homing requirement doesnt make
sense in my case.... I think the requirement is a good thing because i dont
see ANy reason to get PI-space if you are not multihomed.

 

 // Janne

 

 

_______________________ V E N T I R O ______
Janne Tuomi, tuomi at ventiro.se
Tel: +46-11-36 52 00
GSM: +46-70-224 6000
Fax: +46-11-36 52 05

 

On 30 mar 2011, at 12.32, Erik Bais wrote:





Hi Jan,

 

If you are providing SSL hosting on your shared, dedicated of VPS
webservers, you are allowed to use PI space, as long as you don't provide
blocks to a specific customers to use. That is considered assigning, so if
you use a first come, first served assignment strategy on PI IP's, that is
acceptable for PI is my experience with the IPRA's.

 

If your customer is hosting SSL sites on their equipment (read: you are
providing collocation), you would need to sign up as a LIR for now, as your
customer isn't multi-homed (I assume) and that is (still)  another
requirement for IPv6 PI.

 

I have a policy change requested through the formal channels to remove the
multi-homing requirement for PI IPv6, so expect some more discussion on PI
IPv6 on the list soon.

 

Regards,

Erik Bais

 

From: address-policy-wg-admin at ripe.net
[mailto:address-policy-wg-admin at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Jan Tuomi
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:55 AM
To: address-policy-wg at ripe.net
Subject: Re: [address-policy-wg] IPv6 PI request is turned down for my
multihomed hosting facility - Why?

 

On 30 mar 2011, at 11.08, Adrian Czapek wrote:

> W dniu 2011-03-30 10:58, Tero Toikkanen pisze:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, there seems to be a strange discrepancy between
>> IPv4 PI and IPv6 PI. Apparently Janne has already successfully obtained
>> IPv4 PI and has now requested IPv6 PI, declaring the same intended use.
>> Could someone please point out where in the policy documents it says one
>> can use IPv4 PI for hosting, but not IPv6 PI? I'm having a hard time
>> finding such terms.
>>
> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-512#_8._IPv6_Provider
>
> Most important is the last sentence:
> The PI assignment cannot be further assigned to other organisations.
>
> And according to IPRA, if you provide hosting services on your own
infratructure to other companies, you are sub-allocating part of your PI
address space to them, so you cannot use PI address space for that purpose.
>
> Regards
> --
> Adrian
>


So what this means is that if a customer puts their server in my facility I
am sub-allocating?
To sub-allocate I have to be an LIR and request an own PA-space?
For each customer I have to assign their own /64 and register it in the
ripe-database?

Setting up an SSL-webhost is also sub-allocating? so to set up an ssl-host I
have to again allocate an own /64 for the host, register it in the database,
set up VLANS and routing on the webserver and network equipment since its a
different IP-network? this will cause a lot of problem with stateful
inspection in the firewall because i need to use multiple default gateways
on the same server. So in the end I have to set up a whole new webbserver
for each customer who needs SSL to get things running smoothly?

hmm.. seems that I have to forget about IPv6 and continue running IPv4
only....

 // Janne

_______________________ V E N T I R O ______
Janne Tuomi, tuomi at ventiro.se
Tel: +46-11-36 52 00
GSM: +46-70-224 6000
Fax: +46-11-36 52 05




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