[address-policy-wg] Re: [ppml] article about IPv6 vs firewalls vs NAT in arstechnica (seen on slashdot)
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ jordi.palet at consulintel.es
Fri May 11 23:23:26 CEST 2007
I've talked with Leo from IANA about this details a few days ago. Basically there are two choices to make this happen (even both in parallel): 1) The ID becomes an RFC and possibly has further details, as for example a possible split of the FC00 in between several registries, or just a mention of the IANA as to designate the central registry (a single one or distributed across several), with an explicit mention of the RIRs as being that authority. 2) A global policy doing the same job. The risk here is that it is not accepted by any of the RIRs, and then we become stuck. I will say that the RFC path may be faster and actually is what I'm trying to follow with the ID authors. Regards, Jordi > De: Jason Schiller <schiller at uu.net> > Responder a: <ppml-bounces at arin.net> > Fecha: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:05:10 -0400 (EDT) > Para: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> > CC: <vixie at vix.com>, <ppml at arin.net>, "address-policy-wg at ripe.net" > <address-policy-wg at ripe.net> > Asunto: Re: [ppml] article about IPv6 vs firewalls vs NAT in arstechnica (seen > on slashdot) > > Owen, > > I just want to be clear about somehting you said. You view ULA central as > "an end-run on the RIR process." Is this because the expired ULC-central > draft suggests that some new "central allocation authority" be established > to assign these addresses? > > If the draft RFC was resurrected and all references to "cental allocation > authority" and "cental authority" were removed and replaced with clear > text explaining the following: > > - IANA should divide FC00::/8 into eight /11s > - Each RIR would be given one /11 to make ULA-Central assignments > - Three /11s would be held in reserve for new RIRs in the future. > > Would you still think this was an end-run on the RIR process? > > Would you be in support of the draft moving forward? > > Do you think this should not be decided by an RFC, but rather as a global > policy through each of the RIRs? > > If you prefer the RIR process, would you be in favor of a global policy > submitted to ARIN that had the provisions of the expired ULA-central > draft, with the modification of removing "cental authority" and clearly > designating how IANA should divide the space among the existing RIRs? > > ULA-central text snippets below. > > ___Jason > > > > draft-ietf-ipv6-ula-central-01.txt -- section 3.2.1 > "Global IDs should be assigned under the authority of a single > allocation organization because they are pseudo-random and without > any structure. This is easiest to accomplish if there is a single > authority for the assignments." > > draft-ietf-ipv6-ula-central-01.txt -- section 7.0 > > "The IANA is instructed to designate an allocation authority, based on > instructions from the IAB, for centrally assigned Unique Local IPv6 > unicast addresses. This allocation authority shall comply with the > requirements described in Section 3.2 of this document, including in > particular allocation on a permanent basis and with sufficient > provisions to avoid hoarding of numbers. If deemed appropriate, the > authority may also consist of multiple organizations performing the > allocation authority duties. > > The designated allocation authority is required to document how they > will meet the requirements described in Section 3.2 of this document > in an RFC. This RFC will be shepherd through the IETF by the IAB." > > > > > > ========================================================================== > Jason Schiller (703)886.6648 > Senior Internet Network Engineer fax:(703)886.0512 > Public IP Global Network Engineering schiller at uu.net > UUNET / Verizon jason.schiller at verizonbusiness.com > > The good news about having an email address that is twice as long is that > it increases traffic on the Internet. > > On Thu, 10 May 2007, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 23:12:21 -0700 >> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> >> To: "william(at)elan.net" <william at elan.net> >> Cc: vixie at vix.com, ppml at arin.net, address-policy-wg at ripe.net >> Subject: Re: [ppml] article about IPv6 vs firewalls vs NAT in arstechnica >> (seen on slashdot) >> >> ULA Central is intended so that some subset of the internet can reliably >> use it to interconnect while not being "globally" routed. >> >> The problem I have with this theory is that the delta between a >> collection >> of networks routing by mutual agreement and the internet is: >> >> A. Fuzzy >> B. Non-Existant >> C. There is no difference >> D. Meaningless >> E. Any and/or All of the above >> >> Pick your favorite answer from the above and you've pretty much got it. >> If ULA central were limited to not exiting the local AS (in some >> meaningful >> way, like routers won't forward routes or traffic to ULA addresses to >> external >> adjacencies), then, I might see it as something other than an end-run on >> the RIR process. However, in it's current state of "license for >> anyone who >> wants to run a competing RIR for networks that choose to interoperate >> on this basis" I think it's a pretty bad idea. >> >> Owen >> >> >> On May 11, 2007, at 12:03 AM, william(at)elan.net wrote: >> >>> >>> I don't understand your point about why ULA need to be registered if >>> its not going to be globally routed. Also PI is not the same as ULA - >>> PI do come from RIRs and in IPv6 there was no way to get PI (except >>> in a few special cases) until recent ARIN's micro-allocation policy. >>> >>> On Fri, 11 May 2007, Tony Hain wrote: >>> >>>> I agree that this will help inform the debate, and while Iljitsch >>>> did a good >>>> job of outlining the issue, he left out a significant point::: >>>> People explicitly chose to be in the state of "as there is >>>> currently no >>>> obvious way to make services only available locally" by insisting >>>> that the >>>> local-scope addressing range have a global-scope as far as >>>> application >>>> developers were concerned. Now the application developers are >>>> complaining >>>> about the consequences of their choice, because the alternative to >>>> 'no >>>> routing path for an attack' is to insert a device that has to make >>>> policy >>>> decisions with limited information. >>>> >>>> The current ULA-central discussions will be directly involved in >>>> this issue. >>>> It is critical that all of the RIR's have policies establishing a >>>> mechanism >>>> for registering ULA-central prefixes & PI. For those who don't >>>> recall, the >>>> reason ULA-central was tabled was that it was seen as a potential >>>> end-run to >>>> acquire PI space in the absence of appropriate policy to do so out >>>> of a >>>> range recognized for global routing. >>>> >>>> The need for keeping some things local while others are global is >>>> real, and >>>> the lack of appropriate mechanisms to accomplish that through the >>>> routing >>>> system that is designed to deal with path selection leads to entire >>>> industries for fragile work-arounds along with their increased >>>> complexity. >>>> >>>> Tony >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: ppml-bounces at arin.net [mailto:ppml-bounces at arin.net] On >>>>> Behalf Of >>>>> vixie at vix.com >>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:59 PM >>>>> To: ppml at arin.net >>>>> Subject: [ppml] article about IPv6 vs firewalls vs NAT in >>>>> arstechnica >>>>> (seen on slashdot) >>>>> >>>>> i think that this article will help inform the debate around the >>>>> ipv6 >>>>> transition: >>>>> >>>>> http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/ipv6-firewall-mixed- >>>>> blessing.ars >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> This message sent to you through the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List >>>>> (PPML at arin.net). >>>>> Manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> This message sent to you through the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List >>>> (PPML at arin.net). >>>> Manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml >>> _______________________________________________ >>> This message sent to you through the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List >>> (PPML at arin.net). >>> Manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > This message sent to you through the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List > (PPML at arin.net). > Manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/ppml ********************************************** The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org Bye 6Bone. 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