[address-policy-wg] Fwd: selling ip:s? (kf)

Hi,

Darko Bulat, Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:30:52AM +0100 :
> Hi
> 
> That RIPE quote is outdated. Document itself is dated "Date: 22 April 1996".
> 
> Nowadays "value" cannot (or should not) be prescribed or declared,
> because as it stands, "value of a thing is what thing can bring".
> 
> And clearly, IP numbers are very valuable comodity, if available.

IP addresses are clearly quite valuable, especially PI ones, not to mention
the "allocated unspecified" ones, for obvious reasons.  However, the community
should definately do everything in it's power to make sure IP addresses are
not, under any circumstances, sold.  This kind of behaviour would undermine the
basic structure of the Internet.  I think that, at least in some countries, if
this will be allowed, Internet access and especially Internet services, will be
reserved only for the rich.  This will effectively remove startups from the scene.

Secondly, this will most probably create LIRs that have way to much address space
on one hand and LIRs that don't have enough on the other...

Namespace allocations must be determined by demonstrated need only, in my opinion.

> 
> Legally, however, RIPE (or Internet community ?!) should clarify
> this "non selling position".
> 
> That IP numbers cannot be OWNED, and therefore, since noone can
> claim ownership over certain IP number or IP range, noone is ENTITLED
> to SELL it, and noone is, therefore, able to buy it.

I second that.

> 
> Claiming that "IP numbers themselves" have "no intrinsic value" might
> be, under certain circumstances, misleading, since, if someone is
> able to prove othervise (say, "if I can earn money by selling and
> buying IP numbers/renges, then, hell, they DO have value, not only
> intrinsic but very real, and very tangible..) then he successfully
> (if a matter is referred to a court) might undermine current standing
> that "IP numbers have no intrinsic value".
> 
> To put it bluntly, "we" should make sure that kind of behaviour
> (selling and/or trafficking with IP numbers) is treated the same way
> as selling anything that seller does not own in the first place.

I agree.  We should update and clearify this policy, not change it, as IP
addresses are simply a technical aspect of connected a node to the Internet,
not a commodity - they should not constitute an extra cost.

-- 
Kristófer Sigurðsson
Net- og kerfisdeild
Nethönnun ehf.