[address-policy-wg] Fwd: selling ip:s? (kf)

Hi Katri,

We have not seen any response to your question so let us try to give
you an answer.

Let us clear up the question of charging for IP address space
first. If you read RIPE-152, "Charging by Local Internet Registries",
Section 3, you will see that IP addresses and AS numbers cannot be
"charged", "rented" or "sold" :

http://www.ripe.net/docs/chargingbylirs.html

[..]
3.Registries and Resources 

Two of the above services involve the assignment of finite resources
to customers; these are domain name space and IPv4 address space. They
are managed and assigned by registration agencies, respectively domain
name registries and IP registries. By themselves, these resources have
no intrinsic value; their worth is only realised in conjunction with
the provision of Internet access. Thus, while registries may charge
for their administrative and technical services, they may not charge
for namespace or address space as such; no unit cost or price tag can
be attached to a domain name or to an IP address, public or private.
[..]

Actually there is an agenda point about this document at next week's
Address Policy Working Group.

Now to the rest of the question.

LIR's can offer multiple IP addresses to customers as long as there is
justification from the customer that multiple IP addresses are
required. If there is then ISP B can use their AW to evaluate and
assign these requests.

ISP A should not charge per IP address, rather the cost of
administering the "package" the customer has bought.

Ultimately the LIR is responsible for the users of their address space
so assignments made to customers must *not* be sub-assigned. We refer
to the latest supporting document:

"A separate form must be completed on behalf of each customer's
network or for the infrastructure of the Local Internet Registry
(LIR). Do not include requests for more than one customer in one
form."

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/iprequestsupport.html#intro

and the latest draft policy document states:

10.0 Record Keeping

"All documentation related to an IP address request and sub-allocation
or assignment must be maintained by the LIR for future reference..."

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/draft-documents/ipv4-policies.html#record



Kind regards,

Eamonn McGuinness
RIPE NCC Hostmaster Team Leader


Apparently the following was written:
>
>>Hello, I would like rise the question about selling ip-addresses...
>>
>>Let me present two exampled:
>>1. ISP A has offeres adls that includes static 1 ip-address, but if the 
>>customer needs more ip:s
>>     they will apply for this and pay a sum of X krona per ip-adress they 
>> receive.
>>     ISP B also offeres adsl that inclued 1 ip-address, and when the 
>> customer needs more ip:s
>>     they will have to change the service in order to receive more ip:s, 
>> since the adsl service is
>>     only offered with 1 ip-address and approved from RIPE NCC to be done 
>> in this way.
>>     How should ISP B compare and offer the same amount of ip-addresses 
>> without "getting
>>     into trouble"?
>>
>>2. ISP A has a customer who has received /24 from which they share out 
>>addresses
>>     and their customers can receive more addresses for a sum of X krona.
>>
>>     I understand that we are not allowed to sel our ip-addresses but what 
>> about
>>     our customers customer? Is there anything preventing this from 
>> happening and
>>     is there something documented?
>>
>>Regards Katri
>>Tele2/Swipnet IP Registry
>>Local Internet Registry
>>__________________________________________________________
>>
>>Tele2/SWIPnet           Tel: 08 5626 40 08
>>Box 62                  Fax: 08 5626 42 10
>>164 94 Kista            Email: ip at swip.net
>>SWIP-RIPE               SWIPNET-LIR-MNT
>>__________________________________________________________