20040910 12:21:32 | jabber@irc | jabber has joined the channel. 20040910 12:21:32 | OperServ@irc | OperServ has joined the channel. 20040910 13:21:49 | jabber@irc | jabber has joined the channel. 20040912 23:56:03 | AdiGarrr@irc | AdiGarrr has joined the channel. 20040912 23:56:07 | AdiGarrr@irc | AdiGarrr has left the channel. 20040920 18:55:26 | jabber@irc | jabber has joined the channel. 20040920 18:55:26 | OperServ@irc | OperServ has joined the channel. 20040921 15:35:51 | jeroen@irc | jeroen has joined the channel. 20040922 11:28:20 | Steffann@jabber | Steffann has become available 20040922 11:29:34 | Steffann@jabber | Steffann has left 20040922 11:32:42 | svante@jabber | svante has become available 20040922 11:34:09 | wolfman@jabber | wolfman has become available 20040922 11:36:06 | svante@jabber | svante has left 20040922 12:16:05 | bruce@jabber | bruce has become available 20040922 12:17:22 | BECHA@irc | BECHA has joined the channel. 20040922 12:18:29 | webmaster@jabber | webmaster has become available 20040922 12:18:40 | webmaster@jabber | HI B! 20040922 12:22:43 | jeroen@irc | good morning ;) 20040922 12:23:04 | webmaster@jabber | What time zone are u in? 20040922 12:23:19 | jeroen@irc | CEST 20040922 12:23:26 | jeroen@irc | Zurich that is 20040922 12:23:34 | jeroen@irc | 14:22 good morning ;) 20040922 12:23:36 | jeroen@irc | :) 20040922 12:23:41 | jeroen@irc | still morning nevertheless 20040922 12:24:02 | webmaster@jabber | 14:24 in Amsterdam 20040922 12:39:15 | peter@jabber | peter has become available 20040922 12:41:09 | slz@irc | slz has joined the channel. 20040922 12:48:14 | davidw@irc | davidw has joined the channel. 20040922 12:50:33 | BECHA@irc | hi J, was away from this window for a while.. going up-stairs right now, in fact! 20040922 12:51:21 | rhe@jabber | rhe has become available 20040922 13:01:04 | otroan@irc | otroan has joined the channel. 20040922 13:04:32 | evilmarq@irc | evilmarq has joined the channel. 20040922 13:07:24 | webmaster@jabber | First week of October 20040922 13:09:44 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | sigh, slides absolutely unreadable on video 20040922 13:10:40 | jeroen@irc | I have them 20040922 13:10:41 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | http://www.space.net/~gert/RIPE/R49-v6-table/ 20040922 13:10:45 | jeroen@irc | indeed ;) 20040922 13:10:46 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | for those who want to follow 20040922 13:10:50 | marcoh@irc | marcoh has joined the channel. 20040922 13:11:09 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | dunno wether those incorporate already the corrections I agreed with Gert within the last two hours ;) 20040922 13:11:36 | jeroen@irc | or the ones I did mention yesterday ;) 20040922 13:12:47 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | ah, mine are in 20040922 13:13:37 | jeroen@irc | mine too I see 20040922 13:15:50 | Aziraphale@irc | Aziraphale has joined the channel. 20040922 13:19:46 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | question to gert after he finished: why are IXP /48 not supposed to be announced without no-export? they _should_ actually be routed as wide as possible, otherwise traceroute won't work in uRPF scenarios. Is there any common written policy how those IXP /48s are supposed to be routed or not? The RIPE IXP /48 assingment policy just warns that the prefix might not be routed globally (due to the prefix length). 20040922 13:21:54 | slz@irc | Is it just me or is the Volume level quite low on the stream? 20040922 13:22:02 | jeroen@irc | slz: that is you it is doable here 20040922 13:22:11 | jeroen@irc | slz: at least 2x harder than the music thing 20040922 13:22:33 | jeroen@irc | dr: AS1200 (AMS-IX) sets no-export, and it gets ignored by peers 20040922 13:22:47 | slz@irc | I just got a heart attac on the latest system beep since i didn't notice i turned up the volume that high 20040922 13:22:49 | peter@jabber | is the sound better now? 20040922 13:22:58 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | slz: it is, but it's already at max amplification :-/ 20040922 13:23:08 | slz@irc | A bit louder 20040922 13:23:12 | jeroen@irc | peter: didn't change here 20040922 13:23:45 | peter@jabber | still not better? 20040922 13:24:00 | jeroen@irc | dr: the /48 isn't required to be in any routing table as those IP's are only used for peering, set loopback0 ... and done .... imho but that depends on policy prolly 20040922 13:24:01 | slz@irc | Well no problem just curious. Quality is fine 20040922 13:24:03 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | peter: it's ok now, with all internal volume settings here on max 20040922 13:24:12 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | system beep kills me off too ;) 20040922 13:24:20 | jeroen@irc | turn off the beep ;) 20040922 13:24:44 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | jeroen: see my comment about uRPF 20040922 13:25:23 | jeroen@irc | dr: the routers get the prefix don't they... the /48 isn't seen anywhere else, it is meant for peering, not hosting services... 20040922 13:25:38 | jeroen@irc | s/seen/seen+needed/ 20040922 13:25:48 | jeroen@irc | unless you want to do multihop bgp of course 20040922 13:25:58 | jeroen@irc | then the /48 should be reachable 20040922 13:26:14 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | jeroen: again: you see ICMP TTL exceeded coming from the peering LAN IP space... which will get dropped by uRPF checks if /48 is not in RIB 20040922 13:26:27 | jeroen@irc | then configure your loopback correctly 20040922 13:26:42 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | it has nothing to do with loopbacks 20040922 13:26:53 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | we're talking about endusers doing traceroutes crossing IXPs 20040922 13:27:07 | jeroen@irc | the icmp response will then come from: the loopback 20040922 13:27:10 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | and the trace transitting ISPs who are NOT present at this IXP 20040922 13:27:16 | jeroen@irc | thus enduser will see the loopback 20040922 13:27:24 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | no, ICMP TTL exceeded comes from ingress router interface 20040922 13:27:28 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | not from loopback 20040922 13:27:46 | jeroen@irc | then that should be changed ;) 20040922 13:27:53 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | I disagree 20040922 13:28:15 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | anyway, we should move this discussion to IRCnet #networker if needed 20040922 13:29:09 | jeroen@irc | ack 20040922 13:31:48 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | bruce: is my comment queued? I guess you're relaying? 20040922 13:32:43 | jeroen@irc | com/net also doing v6 ! ;) 20040922 13:32:45 | jeroen@irc | soon(tm) 20040922 13:33:07 | bruce@jabber | urm... not me; am in the office this session. 20040922 13:33:28 | bruce@jabber | peter: are you in ipv6 physically? 20040922 13:33:29 | slz@irc | *eg* 20040922 13:33:44 | peter@jabber | yep, but I'm not scribing 20040922 13:34:00 | bruce@jabber | scribe != jabber relay ;) 20040922 13:35:17 | jeroen@irc | peter: please grab a mike and forward daniels question of 15:19 20040922 13:37:15 | jeroen@irc | http://www.sixxs.net/tools/grh/tla/ripe/ <-- lets see 20040922 13:37:27 | jeroen@irc | 1 [de] Germany Germany 44 68 11.17% 20040922 13:37:31 | jeroen@irc | 2 [nl] Netherlands, The Netherlands, The 26 41 6.60% 20040922 13:37:36 | jeroen@irc | 3 [gb] United Kingdom (Great Britain) United Kingdom (Great Britain) 14 31 3.55% 20040922 13:37:49 | jeroen@irc | 4 [it] Italy Italy 15 23 3.81% 20040922 13:37:51 | jeroen@irc | ;) 20040922 13:37:54 | jeroen@irc | matches up 20040922 13:41:23 | bruce@jabber | gert's still going 20040922 13:41:34 | colin@irc | colin has joined the channel. 20040922 13:41:41 | slz@irc | there are some slides left :) 20040922 13:43:04 | webcast@jabber | webcast has become available 20040922 13:46:46 | jeroen@irc | the bug is still in there 20040922 13:46:51 | jeroen@irc | but surfnet filters correctly 20040922 13:47:48 | slz@irc | unfortunately not everyone has (sane) filters 20040922 13:47:59 | jeroen@irc | *thank you gert* :) 20040922 13:50:16 | slz@irc | problem is, that you're talking to a wall ... i have only about 50% email response at all when i notify some AS about possible filter issues <..> simmilar to the "used but no assignment" issue 20040922 13:50:27 | jeroen@irc | ooh pictures 20040922 13:50:30 | jeroen@irc | oh boy live test... 20040922 13:50:33 | jeroen@irc | *shrugs* 20040922 13:50:41 | jeroen@irc | gert: www.ipv4.sixxs.net !!!!! 20040922 13:50:46 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | hahaha, GRH slashdotted 20040922 13:50:58 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | ah... sucking v6 connectivity to GRH ;> 20040922 13:51:12 | jeroen@irc | dr: no... he lost his v6 connectivity :) 20040922 13:51:22 | colin@irc | the ripe lan has ipv6 issues 20040922 13:52:09 | jeroen@irc | thus type www.ipv4.sixxs.net ;) 20040922 13:52:49 | bruce@jabber | colin: gert came to the ops room this meeting to announce that he had nothing to complain about; v6 worked perfectly for him. 20040922 13:53:02 | slz@irc | up to now :) 20040922 13:53:10 | bruce@jabber | colin: he did mention that he had issues last meeting due to his wlan card being in power-save mode. 20040922 13:54:02 | bruce@jabber | slz: hush you. 20040922 13:54:29 | slz@irc | *smile* 20040922 13:56:36 | jlawrence@irc | jlawrence has joined the channel. 20040922 13:57:08 | bruce@jabber | jabber question coming. james is doing it. 20040922 13:57:16 | jlawrence@irc | has anyone else had their v6 connectivity disappear ? 20040922 13:57:40 | jeroen@irc | jlawrence: gert apparently... 20040922 13:57:45 | jeroen@irc | jlawrence: traceroute... 20040922 13:58:12 | jlawrence@irc | Traceroute not much good - I've completely lost my global address. 20040922 13:58:36 | jeroen@irc | *applaud gert* 20040922 13:58:52 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | sigh. gert should have let peter finish reading 20040922 13:58:53 | slz@irc | good work as usual 20040922 13:59:20 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | that'll cost him a beer next time :-)= 20040922 13:59:25 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | peter: thanks 20040922 13:59:34 | peter@jabber | it was James :) 20040922 13:59:35 | jeroen@irc | lawrence: ping6 -I eth0 ff02::2 20040922 13:59:37 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | s/peter/james/ 20040922 13:59:46 | jeroen@irc | lawrence: any replies from a router? 20040922 14:00:47 | BECHA@irc | can someone ask webcast crue - is it possible to make the quality of the picture of _slides_ better?? 20040922 14:00:57 | BECHA@irc | sorry for the spelling ;) 20040922 14:01:14 | jeroen@irc | this is not entirely readable indeed, better than gerts but still 20040922 14:01:17 | bruce@jabber | becha: not really. 20040922 14:01:22 | webcast@jabber | Only if the slides are better with larger fonts. 20040922 14:01:25 | jlawrence@irc | ff02::2 is up. 20040922 14:01:28 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | does anyone have this presentation slides available? it's unreadable here 20040922 14:01:32 | slz@irc | most of them are available on the internet anyways for parallel reading 20040922 14:01:42 | slz@irc | ok not THIS one :) 20040922 14:01:45 | jeroen@irc | jlawrence: then ther router works, thus RADVD or similar is down, run to the support desk 20040922 14:01:45 | bruce@jabber | becha: we do send out something before each meeting to the chairs asking them to make the font big. 20040922 14:01:58 | jeroen@irc | bruce: the chairs don't make the slides 20040922 14:02:06 | jeroen@irc | bruce: company slideset makers do 20040922 14:02:21 | bruce@jabber | jer: but the chairs are meant to advie the presentors. 20040922 14:02:28 | slz@irc | I'd rather suggest that _all_ Presentations should be available on the (web)server before the session starts 20040922 14:02:29 | bruce@jabber | advise. 20040922 14:02:30 | jeroen@irc | that is true ;) 20040922 14:02:30 | BECHA@irc | bruce: ferenc is asking if you can put one camera closer?! 20040922 14:02:38 | colin@irc | bruce: can we have a higher bitrate stream, 20040922 14:02:41 | slz@irc | that's easier than improving the visibility over the stream i guess 20040922 14:02:53 | bruce@jabber | becha: but we're going from 1024x768 to 320 x200; you lose quality. 20040922 14:02:58 | jeroen@irc | slz: won't work as at least gert make them 15 mins in advance or at least finalize them :) 20040922 14:03:01 | bruce@jabber | becha: 'closer' ? 20040922 14:03:15 | slz@irc | jeroen: well but Gert does have his ones online all the time :) 20040922 14:03:37 | jeroen@irc | slz: he knows how scp works.... some others don't 20040922 14:03:43 | bruce@jabber | slz: ideally, we dump a high quality image of the slide to a seperate page (ie, not the stream). again, we need time to do this. 20040922 14:04:09 | stripes@jabber | stripes has become available 20040922 14:04:12 | jeroen@irc | bruce: the best fix is better slides... 20040922 14:04:32 | slz@irc | jeron: Should be explained to others then probably, i guess it's not too hard to make this work somehow. But if you think it's easier to improve the stream quality without backsides, go for that :) 20040922 14:05:20 | bruce@jabber | jer: yup, hence the reminders that are sent out. 20040922 14:05:20 | slz@irc | Extra stream sounds good, i prefer parellel reading 20040922 14:05:37 | bruce@jabber | slz: time is needed to do that. 20040922 14:05:59 | stripes@jabber | reading the slides on a laptop helps slow idiots like me that miss a key word from the slide being projected as the presenter moves along ;-) 20040922 14:06:12 | slz@irc | bruce: no problem, as long as the problem is worked on, it's not curcial 20040922 14:06:53 | bruce@jabber | slz: the easiest (and more reliable) is the presentor's slides being available. 20040922 14:07:17 | bruce@jabber | slz: it'd be nice if we could enforce the usage of the ncc laptops. 20040922 14:07:39 | slz@irc | "hm" 20040922 14:07:44 | jeroen@irc | bruce: can you display tex on that ? 20040922 14:08:02 | bruce@jabber | what is 'that' ? 20040922 14:08:05 | slz@irc | right, that's what i mean by "hm", probably caused other problems then 20040922 14:08:16 | slz@irc | causes even 20040922 14:08:18 | webcast@jabber | webcast has left 20040922 14:08:45 | jeroen@irc | bruce: bingo 20040922 14:08:52 | jeroen@irc | bruce: that is why that won't work 20040922 14:09:08 | webcast@jabber | webcast has become available 20040922 14:09:35 | bruce@jabber | jeroen: 'if you cannot supply us with ppt or pdf, go away' ? ;) 20040922 14:09:43 | stripes@jabber | sorry - first time at a RIPE meeting. does the scribe maintain meeting minutes 'live' somewhere (as in the - apologies - IETF) ? 20040922 14:09:55 | jeroen@irc | bruce: could work 20040922 14:10:14 | bruce@jabber | stripes: this (the jabber/irc stuff) is as live as it gets. 20040922 14:10:24 | stripes@jabber | heh - fairynuff :-D 20040922 14:10:36 | bruce@jabber | stripes: lot of ietf sessions tend to have the minute taker just blabber into jabber. 20040922 14:10:43 | bruce@jabber | and then call that the minutes. 20040922 14:11:07 | stripes@jabber | yeah. blabbering sometimes helpful when it comes to re-reading the log after the event. my own notes are usually "quite poor" 20040922 14:11:23 | stripes@jabber | agreed, though, IETF 'minutes' are usually a joke :) 20040922 14:18:55 | jeroen@irc | http://www.sixxs.net/misc/traffic/ 20040922 14:19:00 | jeroen@irc | say enough I think ;) 20040922 14:19:05 | jeroen@irc | +'s 20040922 14:19:33 | jeroen@irc | 6to4 relay @ BIT takes much more due to all those @Home users needing access to newszilla6 20040922 14:21:20 | jeroen@irc | shout the url to david ;) 20040922 14:22:05 | jlawrence@irc | OPs guys are looking into what's happenned to the v6 connectivity 20040922 14:22:42 | jeroen@irc | well their RA is dead 20040922 14:26:15 | Aziraphale@irc | Hm. works for me 20040922 14:26:47 | jeroen@irc | then it is fixed apparently ;) 20040922 14:27:21 | Aziraphale@irc | well it just dropped again 20040922 14:27:40 | Aziraphale@irc | no route to host 20040922 14:29:20 | Aziraphale@irc | and now it works again :) 20040922 14:29:47 | davidw@irc | davidw quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:30:42 | jlawrence@irc | jlawrence quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:30:42 | slz@irc | slz quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:30:42 | BECHA@irc | BECHA quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:30:42 | jeroen@irc | jeroen quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:30:42 | evilmarq@irc | evilmarq quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:30:42 | colin@irc | colin quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:30:42 | marcoh@irc | marcoh quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:30:53 | Aziraphale@irc | Aziraphale quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:31:05 | otroan@irc | otroan quit IRC altogether 20040922 14:31:59 | webmaster@jabber | webmaster has left 20040922 14:32:01 | Aziraphale@irc | Aziraphale has joined the channel. 20040922 14:32:07 | otroan@irc | otroan has joined the channel. 20040922 14:32:45 | rhe@jabber | rhe has left 20040922 14:32:58 | rhe@jabber | rhe has become available 20040922 14:36:34 | jlawrence@irc | jlawrence has joined the channel. 20040922 14:36:34 | colin@irc | colin has joined the channel. 20040922 14:36:34 | marcoh@irc | marcoh has joined the channel. 20040922 14:36:34 | slz@irc | slz has joined the channel. 20040922 14:36:34 | BECHA@irc | BECHA has joined the channel. 20040922 14:36:34 | jeroen@irc | jeroen has joined the channel. 20040922 14:37:52 | davidw@irc | davidw has joined the channel. 20040922 14:49:51 | davidw@irc | davidw has left the channel. 20040922 14:50:59 | davidw@irc | davidw has joined the channel. 20040922 14:54:10 | jhma@jabber | jhma has become available 20040922 14:56:14 | stripes@jabber | stripes has left 20040922 14:56:25 | stripes@jabber | stripes has become available 20040922 15:00:52 | BECHA@irc | BECHA quit IRC altogether 20040922 15:03:46 | BECHA@irc | BECHA has joined the channel. 20040922 15:09:41 | arno@jabber | arno has become available 20040922 15:14:01 | arno@jabber | arno has left 20040922 15:14:40 | arno@jabber | arno has become available 20040922 15:15:56 | BECHA@irc | arno? 20040922 15:16:06 | arno@jabber | yes.. I am here 20040922 15:16:54 | BECHA@irc | www.rs.net (simmilar things tested there in 2001..) 20040922 15:17:33 | BECHA@irc | arno, i seem not to be able to msg you privatelly... 20040922 15:18:00 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | arno is on jabber, you are on IRC 20040922 15:18:37 | BECHA@irc | aaah, thanks daniel :) but we do read each other.. 20040922 15:18:55 | arno@jabber | yes, there is a gateway between the two. 20040922 15:21:02 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | but just a simple copy-vice-versa gate 20040922 15:21:28 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | could you please ask the room speakers to take the mic nearer to their mouth? 20040922 15:21:51 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | the mic boom is adjusted for a 1.5m person ;> 20040922 15:22:12 | slz@irc | you really want to hear this right now? :) 20040922 15:22:43 | arno@jabber | is this not easy to follow? I will ask, if needed 20040922 15:23:01 | slz@irc | some are, some are not, combination of dialect+mic_too_far_away 20040922 15:23:04 | jhma@irc | jhma has joined the channel. 20040922 15:23:10 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | arno: it's difficult depending on the speaker and dialect 20040922 15:23:19 | arno@jabber | ok 20040922 15:23:43 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | /me suggests RIPE to use a audio compressor next time to fix those problems automatically to a large extend 20040922 15:24:07 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | if NCC needs equipment suggestions, I can suggest some 20040922 15:24:27 | bruce@jabber | ncc hires the audio btw. 20040922 15:24:39 | bruce@jabber | cameras/encoding is ours. 20040922 15:24:39 | Noodles@irc | Noodles has joined the channel. 20040922 15:24:45 | jlawrence@irc | OPs guys are looking into what's happenned to the v6 connectivity 20040922 15:25:02 | vlevigneron@jabber | vlevigneron has become available 20040922 15:25:05 | bruce@jabber | should have been fixed by now jl 20040922 15:25:18 | jlawrence@irc | oops sent that once already :) 20040922 15:25:23 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | bruce: yeah, the compressor would be between the audio mixer output and the encoder input, so in NCC's area ;) 20040922 15:25:29 | slz@irc | thanks 20040922 15:25:44 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | bruce: using compressors for the room audience would result in chaos probably ;) 20040922 15:26:12 | colin@irc | as much as a seperate broadcast mix would be nice, it aint ever going to happen 20040922 15:26:13 | slz@irc | so, let's see 20040922 15:26:39 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | it's not a seperate mix, but just doing dynamic compression on the broadcast sum signal 20040922 15:26:53 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | the compressor should be about $100-$150 20040922 15:27:06 | vlevigneron@jabber | vlevigneron has left 20040922 15:28:36 | arno@jabber | arno has left 20040922 15:29:21 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | http://www.behringer.com/MDX1600/index.cfm?lang=en 20040922 15:29:31 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | EUR 130 list price, probably 100 street 20040922 15:29:41 | arno@jabber | arno has become available 20040922 15:30:15 | bruce@jabber | eh? we're not shifting to the speaker? 20040922 15:32:04 | bruce@jabber | daniel: hrm. 20040922 15:33:04 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | /me stops off-topic stuff now, but I'm happy to discuss elsewhere :-) 20040922 15:33:22 | bruce@jabber | mail me @ripe.net with it please. 20040922 15:33:44 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | your address? 20040922 15:33:46 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | bruce@? 20040922 15:33:52 | bruce@jabber | yup 20040922 15:33:57 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | ok 20040922 15:34:51 | jeroen@irc | noodles: good eh 20040922 15:35:48 | jhma@irc | note that "/me" stuff on IRC doesn't get through the jabber gateway 20040922 15:36:12 | slz@irc | oh 20040922 15:36:14 | slz@irc | too late :) 20040922 15:36:35 | Noodles@irc | * Noodles reads the NANOG post about AAAA records for a/b.gtld-servers.net. 20040922 15:36:46 | Noodles@irc | (for the jabber people, just before jeroen's comment) 20040922 15:40:39 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | it would be cool to be able to see the slides longer than the speaker ;) 20040922 15:45:12 | BECHA@irc | BECHA has left the channel. 20040922 15:46:59 | Aziraphale@irc | why come up with a hack that makes NAT pale in evilness comparison when it's just a matter of developing a new routing protocol for v6, that can actually handle expected routing table growth 20040922 15:48:47 | Noodles@irc | Have I missed how the host knows when to use a different IP? 20040922 15:49:04 | arno@jabber | Aziraphale, do you want to have this asked? 20040922 15:49:35 | arno@jabber | Everyone, if you want a question asked, please indicate this,so I can step up to the mike 20040922 15:49:40 | Aziraphale@irc | and kick of _another_ flamewar? ;) 20040922 15:49:47 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | arno: are you arno M? 20040922 15:49:48 | arno@jabber | :) 20040922 15:49:57 | arno@jabber | Yup, Arno Meulenkamp 20040922 15:50:06 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | I was thinking of Arno Mehling ;) 20040922 15:50:08 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | *shiver* 20040922 15:50:41 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | my personal opinion is that all solutions which need such complexity in end devices won't fly 20040922 15:50:47 | stripes@jabber | stripes has left 20040922 15:51:06 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | multihoming TCP stack in gadgets? they are happy if they get _normal_ TCP implemented in a not-totally-broken fashoin 20040922 15:51:10 | stripes@jabber | stripes has become available 20040922 15:51:31 | stripes@jabber | hmm. flowlabels... session identifiers... nah. would never fly *shiver* 20040922 15:51:53 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | but well, never say never. perhaps in some 15 years 20040922 15:52:32 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | but until then v6 is dead because all the endusers now doing multihoming have never used v6 as they don't want to give up their independence :-) 20040922 15:54:02 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | sad problem, and I don't have a good answer to the problem myself. but I think the intelligence for multihoming should be in the network, not in the end devices, as a general approach. 20040922 15:54:26 | Aziraphale@irc | it does kind of break the layer model too 20040922 15:54:44 | stripes@jabber | in the network or at the edges? 20040922 15:55:05 | stripes@jabber | cos i can't see isps or excahnges wanting to touch this level of intelligence with an 80' pole 20040922 15:55:12 | Aziraphale@irc | as I understand it in the end devices 20040922 15:56:08 | stripes@jabber | (surely the 'ingress filtering' problem is just a business practise decision? "pay your membership and we'll accept packets on your link from whoever the heck you tell us to") 20040922 15:56:48 | stripes@jabber | /clear 20040922 15:56:52 | stripes@jabber | (whoops. this isn't irc) 20040922 15:57:29 | wolfman@jabber | wolfman has left 20040922 16:00:03 | willem@jabber | willem has become available 20040922 16:01:06 | jlawrence@irc | Why do we have to think about how the locators would work in a NAT environment ? 20040922 16:01:40 | jlawrence@irc | not a question for the floor - just wondering if I missed something. 20040922 16:01:41 | jeroen@irc | jlawrence: NAT is not supposed to exist in the first place 20040922 16:01:51 | jeroen@irc | non-problem 20040922 16:02:02 | jlawrence@irc | Exactly. Why would anyone want IPv6 with nat. 20040922 16:02:05 | stripes@jabber | i think the whole nat thing is multi6 wg living in a dream world 20040922 16:02:10 | stripes@jabber | (or is that a nightmare?) 20040922 16:02:20 | jeroen@irc | if you want multihoming: google for HIP 20040922 16:03:15 | jlawrence@irc | Thus locators behind nat is a non-issue. 20040922 16:04:00 | jeroen@irc | peep NAT 20040922 16:04:03 | jeroen@irc | go hide in a corner 20040922 16:11:35 | willem@jabber | willem has left 20040922 16:17:35 | Aziraphale@irc | Aziraphale quit IRC altogether 20040922 16:26:47 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | audio is very low volume again. hm. there is some real problem in the gain structure somewhere 20040922 16:27:00 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | I guess the room mixer output level is way too low 20040922 16:27:30 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | it might fit for the room loadspeaker amps, but not for the splitted signal to the stream encoder 20040922 16:27:33 | arno@jabber | he is not really talking into the mike.. 20040922 16:30:50 | webcast@jabber | speaker mic output is now max. 20040922 16:35:02 | Noodles@irc | Noodles has left the channel. 20040922 16:47:41 | jlawrence@irc | jlawrence quit IRC altogether 20040922 16:50:27 | michaelvr@jabber | michaelvr has become available 20040922 16:51:04 | michaelvr@jabber | michaelvr has left 20040922 16:57:21 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | unfortunately you can't run native v6 networks with v4 piggyback nowadays 20040922 16:57:39 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | e.g. BGP router-id 20040922 16:57:47 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | and it gets really funny when you enter MPLS land 20040922 16:58:04 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | neither Cisco not Juniper supports native v6 LDP, RSVP etc. 20040922 16:58:17 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | 6PE is the only thing :-( 20040922 16:58:22 | otroan@irc | otroan quit IRC altogether 20040922 16:58:54 | arno@jabber | goodbye 20040922 16:58:55 | bruce@jabber | webcast: hit kessens for not speaking into the mike. 20040922 16:58:56 | jeroen@irc | dr: and we know how 6PE works :) 20040922 16:59:05 | rhe@jabber | rhe has left 20040922 16:59:06 | stripes@jabber | stripes has left 20040922 16:59:10 | arno@jabber | arno has left 20040922 17:00:24 | davidw@irc | davidw has left the channel. 20040922 17:00:33 | Daniel Roesen@jabber | have a nice evening 20040922 17:01:10 | jeroen@irc | ciao ;) 20040922 17:02:14 | jhma@jabber | jhma has left 20040922 17:02:15 | jhma@irc | jhma quit IRC altogether 20040922 17:04:22 | colin@irc | colin has left the channel. 20040922 17:04:38 | jeroen@irc | jeroen has left the channel. 20040922 17:14:36 | bruce@jabber | bruce has left 20040922 17:17:10 | slz@irc | slz quit IRC altogether 20040922 17:19:11 | webcast@jabber | webcast has left 20040922 17:21:04 | peter@jabber | peter has left 20040923 11:06:26 | webmaster@jabber | webmaster has become available 20040923 11:09:07 | webmaster@jabber | Session will start at: 14:00 UK (15:00 CET), webcast video details at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-49/webcast.html 20040923 12:39:18 | webmaster@jabber | webmaster has left 20040923 13:02:51 | marcoh@irc | marcoh has left the channel.