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Re: [ripe-list] Take a RIPE NCC Certified Professionals exam at RIPE 79

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Randy Bush

2019-10-08 14:46:47 CET

[ cc: ripe list ]

> For the first time, we will offer you the opportunity to become a RIPE
> NCC Certified Professional at a RIPE Meeting.

i think this is horribly broken.  neither ripe nor the ncc should be
certifying anything except recorded ip resources.

randy

Ольга Василевич

2019-10-09 08:48:37 CET

I agree with Randy.

вт, 8 окт. 2019 г. в 15:47, Randy Bush <randy _at_ psg _dot_ com>:

> [ cc: ripe list ]
>
> > For the first time, we will offer you the opportunity to become a RIPE
> > NCC Certified Professional at a RIPE Meeting.
>
> i think this is horribly broken.  neither ripe nor the ncc should be
> certifying anything except recorded ip resources.
>
> randy
>
>
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Janos Zsako

2019-10-09 14:02:42 CET

Dear all,

>> For the first time, we will offer you the opportunity to become a RIPE
>> NCC Certified Professional at a RIPE Meeting.
> 
> i think this is horribly broken.  neither ripe nor the ncc should be
> certifying anything except recorded ip resources.

I am afraid I have a different opinion

Certifying the use of IP addresses is definitely the core business of
RIPE NCC.

However, I see no harm in having a certification process for knowledge
related to the RIPE database or other processes related to the registration
of IP addresses. As the RIPE NCC delivers many trainings in these fields of
expertise, it seems natural to me to have a certification system operated by
the people who can best judge the knowledge acquired at these trainings.

Such a certificate can have a high value in this industry. As an Executive
Board member I did encourage the RIPE NCC to introduce such a certification,
so you can put some of the blame on me if you do not like this initiative,
although the idea did not come from me. :)

As an analogy, the .hu ccTLD registry also delivers DNS training courses to
registrars and issues certificates after a successful exam. The exam is
optional, but many people take it as the certificate is valued by the
employers (the registrars).

Best regards,
Janos

> randy

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Nick Hilliard

2019-10-09 15:04:29 CET

Janos Zsako wrote on 09/10/2019 13:02:
> However, I see no harm in having a certification process for 
> knowledge related to the RIPE database or other processes related to 
> the registration of IP addresses. As the RIPE NCC delivers many 
> trainings in these fields of expertise, it seems natural to me to 
> have a certification system operated by the people who can best
> judge the knowledge acquired at these trainings.

The first objective in the RIPE Terms of Reference (RIPE-1) document is:

> RIPE acts as a forum for the exchange of technical information and 
> the creation of expertise on IP networking.

Having training and certification processes for RIPE NCC services fits 
well within this framework.

Even if this weren't the case, it would still be fine for the RIPE NCC 
to use certification mechanisms like this to promote the RIPE database. 
They aren't aimed at the Randys of the world, but there are plenty of 
other people who will find this sort of thing relevant and useful.

Nick

Hella

2019-10-09 15:21:27 CET

Agreed with Nick. I find this certification very useful. As per my opinion
it will teach many people how to work with ripe database in a proper way
and decrease the number of wrong created and missing objects.

Regards
Ella

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019, 5:04 PM Nick Hilliard (INEX) <nick _at_ inex _dot_ ie> wrote:

> Janos Zsako wrote on 09/10/2019 13:02:
> > However, I see no harm in having a certification process for
> > knowledge related to the RIPE database or other processes related to
> > the registration of IP addresses. As the RIPE NCC delivers many
> > trainings in these fields of expertise, it seems natural to me to
> > have a certification system operated by the people who can best
> > judge the knowledge acquired at these trainings.
>
> The first objective in the RIPE Terms of Reference (RIPE-1) document is:
>
> > RIPE acts as a forum for the exchange of technical information and
> > the creation of expertise on IP networking.
>
> Having training and certification processes for RIPE NCC services fits
> well within this framework.
>
> Even if this weren't the case, it would still be fine for the RIPE NCC
> to use certification mechanisms like this to promote the RIPE database.
> They aren't aimed at the Randys of the world, but there are plenty of
> other people who will find this sort of thing relevant and useful.
>
> Nick
>
>

Daniel Karrenberg

2019-10-10 18:12:46 CET

RIPE NCC staff member


On 8 Oct 2019, at 14:46, Randy Bush wrote:

> [ cc: ripe list ]
>
>> For the first time, we will offer you the opportunity to become a 
>> RIPE
>> NCC Certified Professional at a RIPE Meeting.
>
> i think this is horribly broken.  neither ripe nor the ncc should be
> certifying anything except recorded ip resources.
>
> randy


Randy,

The RIPE NCC has been offering training courses since 1993. I remain 
convinced that going out there to train people is one of the reasons 
that we have a strong community that understands what we are about and 
supports us. It also helps us to keep in touch with people on the shop 
floor. I value this activity very much and so does the membership. 
Whether we like it or not, one of the expectations with training these 
days is something more tangible than a ‘certificate of 
participation’. We have to meet these expectations. Besides that it 
also provides us with some measure of the effectiveness of our training 
efforts. So nothing is broken and certainly not horribly broken.

No-one will force you to take the test. ;-)

Daniel

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Randy Bush

2019-10-10 18:17:01 CET

hi daniel,

> The RIPE NCC has been offering training courses since 1993.

which i have always said is excellent; though i have a joke about
what is essentially a product which is so complex to use that the
customer has to take a course to use it.

that is not my issue.  it is that we are starting down the path of
folk wandering around out there saying they are ripe certified net
engs.

see you soon!

randy

Daniel Karrenberg

2019-10-10 18:27:56 CET

RIPE NCC staff member


On 10 Oct 2019, at 18:17, Randy Bush wrote:

> hi daniel,
>
>> The RIPE NCC has been offering training courses since 1993.
>
> which i have always said is excellent; though i have a joke about
> what is essentially a product which is so complex to use that the
> customer has to take a course to use it.
>
> that is not my issue.  it is that we are starting down the path of
> folk wandering around out there saying they are ripe certified net
> engs.
>
> see you soon!
>
> randy

I see your point.

 From https://www.ripe.net/support/certified-professionals:

“A digital badge contains verifiable information about the skills and 
knowledge it certifies. It holds details about the exam and assessment 
criteria that can be verified by a third party. This programme invites 
you to become recognised as an Internet professional.”

So if someone were to ‘over-claim’ here it may very well back-fire 
for them.

However, I am certain the responsible people at the NCC have heard you 
and will consider the ‘branding’ in the light of your concerns.

Daniel

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Randy Bush

2019-10-10 18:31:59 CET

> "... This programme invites you to become recognised as an Internet
> professional.$B!I(B

the camel has a large nose, and it already is in the tent

> However, I am certain the responsible people at the NCC have heard you
> and will consider the $B!F(Bbranding$B!G(B in the light of your concerns.

cool!  that's why i still hang around ripe/ncc.

randy