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[atlas] Probe on sailboat with Starlink

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Michael Markstaller

2022-06-01 19:15:57 CET

Hi,

just a question:
any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not officially 
supported)

Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick RO/dead) 
and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over 
Adriatic/Atlantic.

And if yes, some API-way to update location would be nice as we're moving:-)

best regards

Michael Markstaller
Softwareentwicklung & IT-Dienstleistungen

Am Birkengarten 19b
82024 Taufkirchen
Tel: +49-89-21553825, Mobile: +49-179-2080789
USt-ID: DE293191950

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Phillip Remaker

2022-06-24 02:21:12 CET

I don;t know who gets to decide such a thing, but I think it's a great
idea as long as it is appropriately tagged. Diversity of deployed probes is
helpful.

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:16 AM Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas <
ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> just a question:
> any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not officially
> supported)
>
> Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick RO/dead)
> and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over
> Adriatic/Atlantic.
>
> And if yes, some API-way to update location would be nice as we're
> moving:-)
>
> best regards
>
> Michael Markstaller
> Softwareentwicklung & IT-Dienstleistungen
>
> Am Birkengarten 19b
> 82024 Taufkirchen
> Tel: +49-89-21553825, Mobile: +49-179-2080789
> USt-ID: DE293191950
>
> --
> ripe-atlas mailing list
> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas
>

Eric Kuhnke

2022-06-24 02:27:31 CET

I believe my probe, temporarily down, was the first fixed location starlink
terminal RIPE atlas probe...  software probe package on debian-stable.

https://atlas.ripe.net/probes/1001821/

It's down temporary right now because the terminal has had its
billing/account converted from fixed residential to the "RV" service plan,
where billing can be paused and un-paused, and roam around the US 48 states
+ Canada.  At the cost of being lower in priority with more latency/lower
speeds than the fixed service plan terminals in any geographical area.



On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 17:21, Phillip Remaker <remaker _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:

> I don;t know who gets to decide such a thing, but I think it's a great
> idea as long as it is appropriately tagged. Diversity of deployed probes is
> helpful.
>
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:16 AM Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas <
> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> just a question:
>> any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not officially
>> supported)
>>
>> Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick RO/dead)
>> and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over
>> Adriatic/Atlantic.
>>
>> And if yes, some API-way to update location would be nice as we're
>> moving:-)
>>
>> best regards
>>
>> Michael Markstaller
>> Softwareentwicklung & IT-Dienstleistungen
>>
>> Am Birkengarten 19b
>> 82024 Taufkirchen
>> Tel: +49-89-21553825, Mobile: +49-179-2080789
>> USt-ID: DE293191950
>>
>> --
>> ripe-atlas mailing list
>> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas
>>
> --
> ripe-atlas mailing list
> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas
>
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Hank Nussbacher

2022-06-24 07:27:00 CET

On 24/06/2022 03:21, Phillip Remaker wrote:

There are a number of satellite providers for boats/ships: viasat, 
inmarsat, speedcast, marlink, navarino, kvh, thrane, iridium, hughes and 
probably others I am missing.  I seem to remember that Maxmind and 
others used some sort of ad-hoc country code like XX to signify an IP 
associated with an area not covered by a country.

-Hank

> I don;t know who gets to decide such a thing, but I think it's a great 
> idea as long as it is appropriately tagged. Diversity of deployed probes 
> is helpful.
> 
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:16 AM Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas 
> <ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>> wrote:
> 
>     Hi,
> 
>     just a question:
>     any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not
>     officially
>     supported)
> 
>     Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick RO/dead)
>     and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over
>     Adriatic/Atlantic.

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Eberhard Lisse

2022-06-24 07:41:07 CET

These are much more expensive than Starlink I would think.

el

On 2022-06-24 07:27 , Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> On 24/06/2022 03:21, Phillip Remaker wrote:
> 
> There are a number of satellite providers for boats/ships: viasat,
> inmarsat, speedcast, marlink, navarino, kvh, thrane, iridium, hughes
> and probably others I am missing.  I seem to remember that Maxmind and
> others used some sort of ad-hoc country code like XX to signify an IP
> associated with an area not covered by a country.
> 
> -Hank
[...]
-- 
Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse   \         /       Obstetrician & Gynaecologist
el _at_ lisse _dot_ NA             / *      |  Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
PO Box 8421 Bachbrecht  \      /  If this email is signed with GPG/PGP
10007, Namibia           ;____/  Sect 20 of Act No 4 of 2019 may apply

Eric Kuhnke

2022-06-24 08:55:05 CET

The nature of teleport oeprations for geostationary operators is that the
IP space an end user will be in is usually in some very mundane RIPE or
APNIC or ARIN /24 that looks like it's located in Miami, or Brussels, or
Cyprus.

This is complicated by the fact that an individual /26 sized block of space
used by a VSAT hub operator for point-to-multipoint contended access c, ku
or ka-band vsat might have terminals in many different countries.

A big portion of my Afghanistan stuff all used to meet the public internet
in either Usingen, Germany or Singapore.




On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 22:27, Hank Nussbacher <hank _at_ interall.co _dot_ il> wrote:

> On 24/06/2022 03:21, Phillip Remaker wrote:
>
> There are a number of satellite providers for boats/ships: viasat,
> inmarsat, speedcast, marlink, navarino, kvh, thrane, iridium, hughes and
> probably others I am missing.  I seem to remember that Maxmind and
> others used some sort of ad-hoc country code like XX to signify an IP
> associated with an area not covered by a country.
>
> -Hank
>
> > I don;t know who gets to decide such a thing, but I think it's a great
> > idea as long as it is appropriately tagged. Diversity of deployed probes
> > is helpful.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:16 AM Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas
> > <ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi,
> >
> >     just a question:
> >     any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not
> >     officially
> >     supported)
> >
> >     Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick
> RO/dead)
> >     and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over
> >     Adriatic/Atlantic.
>
> --
> ripe-atlas mailing list
> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas
>
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Michael Markstaller

2022-06-28 18:29:03 CET

Hi, well maybe noone really read my question :-)

The question is not if it's working, legal or anybody is fine with that 
but rather what the subject said
(Atlas RIPE)"Probe on sailboat with Starlink"

There is a "PORTABILITY Option" for 25 bucks a month to enable this with 
Starlink - all the other are impractical or much too expensive.. But 
again: the question was if I take the probe with me or leave it unused 
at home.

best regards, Michael


Am 24.06.22 um 07:27 schrieb Hank Nussbacher:
> On 24/06/2022 03:21, Phillip Remaker wrote:
> 
> There are a number of satellite providers for boats/ships: viasat, 
> inmarsat, speedcast, marlink, navarino, kvh, thrane, iridium, hughes and 
> probably others I am missing.  I seem to remember that Maxmind and 
> others used some sort of ad-hoc country code like XX to signify an IP 
> associated with an area not covered by a country.
> 
> -Hank
> 
>> I don;t know who gets to decide such a thing, but I think it's a great 
>> idea as long as it is appropriately tagged. Diversity of deployed 
>> probes is helpful.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:16 AM Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas 
>> <ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi,
>>
>>     just a question:
>>     any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not
>>     officially
>>     supported)
>>
>>     Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick 
>> RO/dead)
>>     and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over
>>     Adriatic/Atlantic.
> 

-- 
Für Rückfragen stehe ich jederzeit gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

Michael Markstaller
Softwareentwicklung & IT-Dienstleistungen

Am Birkengarten 19b
82024 Taufkirchen
Tel: +49-89-21553825, Mobile: +49-179-2080789
USt-ID: DE293191950

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Stephen Strowes

2022-06-28 19:46:05 CET

Hi,

On 6/28/22 17:29, Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas wrote:
> the question was if I take the probe with me or leave it unused at home.

I think you should do it!

No harm in collecting data from a probe in motion. I have no idea how 
starlink decides what ground station to bounce your service down onto, 
it might be interesting to see how it works the further you get from home.

Consider tagging the probe somehow so that it can be found easily, or so 
that it's obvious why it's an outlier when somebody finds it in their 
analysis. I think some other probes have a starlink tag on them, but 
yours might be the only starlink on a boat.


S.



>
> Am 24.06.22 um 07:27 schrieb Hank Nussbacher:
>> On 24/06/2022 03:21, Phillip Remaker wrote:
>>
>> There are a number of satellite providers for boats/ships: viasat, 
>> inmarsat, speedcast, marlink, navarino, kvh, thrane, iridium, hughes 
>> and probably others I am missing.  I seem to remember that Maxmind 
>> and others used some sort of ad-hoc country code like XX to signify 
>> an IP associated with an area not covered by a country.
>>
>> -Hank
>>
>>> I don;t know who gets to decide such a thing, but I think it's a 
>>> great idea as long as it is appropriately tagged. Diversity of 
>>> deployed probes is helpful.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:16 AM Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas 
>>> <ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Hi,
>>>
>>>     just a question:
>>>     any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not
>>>     officially
>>>     supported)
>>>
>>>     Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick 
>>> RO/dead)
>>>     and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over
>>>     Adriatic/Atlantic.
>>
>

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Simon Brandt

2022-06-28 22:39:51 CET

It doesn't matter if the probe is located on a sailboat or somewhere else. It also doesn't matter if the probe is "moving" or at a fixed location. Most important is availability and reliability. Please don't deploy a probe only for some weeks. It should be up and running in the long-term.

BR,
Simon


On 28.06.22 19:46, Stephen Strowes wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 6/28/22 17:29, Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas wrote:
>> the question was if I take the probe with me or leave it unused at home.
>
> I think you should do it!
>
> No harm in collecting data from a probe in motion. I have no idea how starlink decides what ground station to bounce your service down onto, it might be interesting to see how it works the further you get from home.
>
> Consider tagging the probe somehow so that it can be found easily, or so that it's obvious why it's an outlier when somebody finds it in their analysis. I think some other probes have a starlink tag on them, but yours might be the only starlink on a boat.
>
>
> S.
>
>
>
>>
>> Am 24.06.22 um 07:27 schrieb Hank Nussbacher:
>>> On 24/06/2022 03:21, Phillip Remaker wrote:
>>>
>>> There are a number of satellite providers for boats/ships: viasat, inmarsat, speedcast, marlink, navarino, kvh, thrane, iridium, hughes and probably others I am missing.  I seem to remember that Maxmind and others used some sort of ad-hoc country code like XX to signify an IP associated with an area not covered by a country.
>>>
>>> -Hank
>>>
>>>> I don;t know who gets to decide such a thing, but I think it's a great idea as long as it is appropriately tagged. Diversity of deployed probes is helpful.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:16 AM Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas <ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi,
>>>>
>>>>     just a question:
>>>>     any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not
>>>>     officially
>>>>     supported)
>>>>
>>>>     Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick RO/dead)
>>>>     and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over
>>>>     Adriatic/Atlantic.
>>>
>>
>

Daniel Karrenberg

2022-06-29 14:46:26 CET

RIPE NCC staff member

On 28-06-2022 19:46, Stephen Strowes wrote:
> ... I have no idea how starlink decides what ground station to bounce 
> your service down onto, it might be interesting to see how it works 
> the further you get from home.

https://starlink.sx/ is a nice *simulation* that provides some graphical 
insight in what POPs might be used and why.
NB: one can set the user location at the top right.

Daniel

PS: Receiving my starlink RV in a few days. I will test it at home 
first. If there is a spare probe, I'll be happy to connect it later.

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Grzegorz Ponikierski A

2022-06-30 17:07:47 CET

I think that both availability and location are equality important because many folks make region/country/city specific measurements so they are really interested where probe is located. AFAIK Atlas doesn’t provide API to easily change location of the probe so it must be changed manually via Atlas API which will be super cumbersome for the host. It’s also interesting what country will be assigned to the probe if you select location on international waters. Mhh…

Regards,
Grzegorz

From: Simon Brandt via ripe-atlas <ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>
Reply to: "ripe.net _at_ toppas _dot_ net" <ripe.net _at_ toppas _dot_ net>
Date: Tuesday 2022-06-28 at 22:40
To: "ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net" <ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>
Subject: Re: [atlas] Probe on sailboat with Starlink

It doesn't matter if the probe is located on a sailboat or somewhere else. It also doesn't matter if the probe is "moving" or at a fixed location. Most important is availability and reliability. Please don't deploy a probe only for some weeks. It should be up and running in the long-term.

BR,
Simon


On 28.06.22 19:46, Stephen Strowes wrote:
Hi,

On 6/28/22 17:29, Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas wrote:

the question was if I take the probe with me or leave it unused at home.

I think you should do it!

No harm in collecting data from a probe in motion. I have no idea how starlink decides what ground station to bounce your service down onto, it might be interesting to see how it works the further you get from home.

Consider tagging the probe somehow so that it can be found easily, or so that it's obvious why it's an outlier when somebody finds it in their analysis. I think some other probes have a starlink tag on them, but yours might be the only starlink on a boat.


S.





Am 24.06.22 um 07:27 schrieb Hank Nussbacher:

On 24/06/2022 03:21, Phillip Remaker wrote:

There are a number of satellite providers for boats/ships: viasat, inmarsat, speedcast, marlink, navarino, kvh, thrane, iridium, hughes and probably others I am missing.  I seem to remember that Maxmind and others used some sort of ad-hoc country code like XX to signify an IP associated with an area not covered by a country.

-Hank


I don;t know who gets to decide such a thing, but I think it's a great idea as long as it is appropriately tagged. Diversity of deployed probes is helpful.

On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 10:16 AM Michael Markstaller via ripe-atlas <ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ netripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net>> wrote:

    Hi,

    just a question:
    any interest to have a probe on a sailboat with Starlink (not
    officially
    supported)

    Just got my probe Probe #27837 fixed again at home (usb-stick RO/dead)
    and now I wonder if I leave it at home or take it with me over
    Adriatic/Atlantic.





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Hank Nussbacher

2022-08-11 08:22:50 CET

Why couldn't they have used RIPE probes to conduct the analysis:
https://labs.ripe.net/author/bassosimone/measuring-encrypted-dns-censorship-using-ooni-probe/
Why did they need OONI probes?   What services do OONI probes provide 
that RIPE probes cannot?

Thanks and regards,
Hank

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Sebastian Johansson

2022-08-11 11:37:36 CET

>From a quick check on the API and the linked test specification, there
are some things that aren't supported on RIPE probes, like using SNI
and Host headers that don't match.

But the easy answer is probably that OONI prefers to run their tests
on OONI probes :)


On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 8:23 AM Hank Nussbacher <hank _at_ interall.co _dot_ il> wrote:
>
> Why couldn't they have used RIPE probes to conduct the analysis:
> https://labs.ripe.net/author/bassosimone/measuring-encrypted-dns-censorship-using-ooni-probe/
> Why did they need OONI probes?   What services do OONI probes provide
> that RIPE probes cannot?
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Hank
>
> --
> ripe-atlas mailing list
> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas

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Evgeniy S

2022-09-01 22:12:57 CET

Dear all,

as I see guys at OONI do a great job in detecting censorship technical
measures. If someone has no direct access to their backend servers
they support: tor, psiphon, snowflake, etc.

I've tried to set up an atlas software probe in one of the very
censored locations (in fact now none RIPE Atlas probes are running
there) and it fails just because all REGSERVER IPs are blocked.

Whom can I contact at RIPE to assist on this (I think we can find IPs
which are not blocked for this purpose)? My mail to (whom I contacted
earlier last year on this matter) philip.homburg _at_ ripe _dot_ net returned me
"not exist" this afternoon.


On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:37 AM Sebastian Johansson
<steamruler _at_ gmail _dot_ com> wrote:
>
> From a quick check on the API and the linked test specification, there
> are some things that aren't supported on RIPE probes, like using SNI
> and Host headers that don't match.
>
> But the easy answer is probably that OONI prefers to run their tests
> on OONI probes :)
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 8:23 AM Hank Nussbacher <hank _at_ interall.co _dot_ il> wrote:
> >
> > Why couldn't they have used RIPE probes to conduct the analysis:
> > https://labs.ripe.net/author/bassosimone/measuring-encrypted-dns-censorship-using-ooni-probe/
> > Why did they need OONI probes?   What services do OONI probes provide
> > that RIPE probes cannot?
> >
> > Thanks and regards,
> > Hank
> >
> > --
> > ripe-atlas mailing list
> > ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
> > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas
>
> --
> ripe-atlas mailing list
> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas

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Simon Brandt

2022-09-02 00:54:32 CET

Hi Evgeniy,

you can write to 'atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net' and ask for support.

BR,
Simon


On 01.09.22 22:12, Evgeniy S. wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> as I see guys at OONI do a great job in detecting censorship technical
> measures. If someone has no direct access to their backend servers
> they support: tor, psiphon, snowflake, etc.
>
> I've tried to set up an atlas software probe in one of the very
> censored locations (in fact now none RIPE Atlas probes are running
> there) and it fails just because all REGSERVER IPs are blocked.
>
> Whom can I contact at RIPE to assist on this (I think we can find IPs
> which are not blocked for this purpose)? My mail to (whom I contacted
> earlier last year on this matter)philip.homburg _at_ ripe _dot_ net  returned me
> "not exist" this afternoon.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:37 AM Sebastian Johansson
> <steamruler _at_ gmail _dot_ com>  wrote:
>>  From a quick check on the API and the linked test specification, there
>> are some things that aren't supported on RIPE probes, like using SNI
>> and Host headers that don't match.
>>
>> But the easy answer is probably that OONI prefers to run their tests
>> on OONI probes :)
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 8:23 AM Hank Nussbacher<hank _at_ interall.co _dot_ il>  wrote:
>>> Why couldn't they have used RIPE probes to conduct the analysis:
>>> https://labs.ripe.net/author/bassosimone/measuring-encrypted-dns-censorship-using-ooni-probe/
>>> Why did they need OONI probes?   What services do OONI probes provide
>>> that RIPE probes cannot?
>>>
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>> Hank
>>>
>>> --
>>> ripe-atlas mailing list
>>> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
>>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas
>> --
>> ripe-atlas mailing list
>> ripe-atlas _at_ ripe _dot_ net
>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/ripe-atlas