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[dns-wg] SLD .gov.* within european countries

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Antonio Prado

2018-06-10 11:39:33 CET

hi,

I hope you can help me on a not-so-related-to-DNS question.

does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
central government bodies and not local government or other public
administrations as well?

thank you
--
antonio

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Rob Evans

2018-06-10 11:46:47 CET

> does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
> central government bodies and not local government or other public
> administrations as well?

Nope.  At least in the UK it has regional government.  E.g.:

	http://cumbria.gov.uk

I’m sure mileage varies.

Rob

Jim Reid

2018-06-10 12:40:58 CET


> On 10 Jun 2018, at 10:39, Antonio Prado via dns-wg <dns-wg _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote:
> 
> does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
> central government bodies and not local government or other public
> administrations as well?

No. Well, not under gov.uk. The domain has local authorities as well as central government. It also includes a few state-run institutions -- registrar of companies, national archives, vehicle/driver licensing, land registry, etc -- which technically are not part of government. Other parts of the UK government such as the NHS and police have their own SLDs.

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Sander Steffann

2018-06-10 22:17:35 CET

Hi,

> I hope you can help me on a not-so-related-to-DNS question.
> 
> does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
> central government bodies and not local government or other public
> administrations as well?

gov.nl has no special meaning (.nl doesn't do official SLDs), but it does happen to forward to a government site.

Cheers,
Sander

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Niall O'Reilly

2018-06-12 13:32:58 CET

On 10 Jun 2018, at 10:39, Antonio Prado via dns-wg wrote:

> hi,
>
> I hope you can help me on a not-so-related-to-DNS question.
>
> does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
> central government bodies

Not in the case of gov.ie.

> and not local government or other public
> administrations as well?

See http://www.gov.ie/en/about-us --
"This website is a central portal for online government services, allowing citizens the ability to search and find all government services in a single, convenient manner."

There are links to central government departments, local authorities, statutory bodies,
state-supported services, and tourist attractions.

Some government departments use 3rd-level domains delegated from gov.ie, others use their own SLD.

Niall O'Reilly

Stephane Bortzmeyer

2018-06-12 13:43:55 CET

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 11:39:33AM +0200,
 Antonio Prado via dns-wg <dns-wg _at_ ripe _dot_ net> wrote 
 a message of 42 lines which said:

> does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
> central government bodies and not local government or other public
> administrations as well?

I guess most answers will be "it depends" :-)

For gouv.fr (gouv = gouvernement, which, in french, means only the
national one), it is only central bodies, "independant"
administrations like CNIL or ARCEP don't use it. Same thing for local
authorities .

For details (in french), see
,
section 2.5.




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Antonio Prado

2018-06-12 16:45:48 CET

On 6/12/18 1:32 PM, Niall O'Reilly wrote:
> There are links to central government departments, local authorities, statutory bodies,
> state-supported services, and tourist attractions.

I can't find any city as third level under .gov.ie.

www.gov.ie seems a directory of links.

so may I assume that just central government (and its departments of
course) uses third level domains under .gov.ie?

thank you
--
antonio

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Antonio Prado

2018-06-12 16:51:27 CET

On 6/12/18 1:43 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> I guess most answers will be "it depends" :-)

ok, just to recap:

.gov.uk --> central and local
.gov.ie --> central
.gov.nl --> neither central nor local
.go(u)v.fr --> central
.gov.it --> central and local (to cancel local by the end of 2018)

any other colleague from other countries wants to contribute?

thank you
--
antonio

Carsten Schiefner

2018-06-12 17:09:36 CET

Hi Antonio,

On 12.06.2018 16:51, Antonio Prado via dns-wg wrote:
> any other colleague from other countries wants to contribute?

gov.de does not seem to be linked to any governmental activity whatsoever.

Rather, the website under http://www.gov.de/ appears to be a collection
of some advertorial links.

The main entry point for Germany's Federal Government is
http://www.bund.de/ , 'bund' in bund.de literally stands for 'federation'.

Please also note that most, highly likely even all of the 16 German
Federal States have their own official web presences under various
different domain names. Ditto for regions and cities.

AFAIK the State of Nordrhine-Westfalia even uses a non-.de domain name:
the entry point is https://www.land.nrw/ instead of something ending
with a .de.

HTH - best,

	-C.

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Niall O'Reilly

2018-06-12 18:10:21 CET

On 12 Jun 2018, at 15:45, Antonio Prado wrote:

> so may I assume that just central government (and its departments of
> course) uses third level domains under .gov.ie?

I'm not in a position to confirm this.

As you probably know, the DNS is both technically and administratively
delegated.  You'll need to look to the delegatee for the confirmation
you seek.

This URL may be a place to start:
https://www.iedr.ie/whois-result/?whois=gov

Best regards,
Niall O'Reilly
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Michele Neylon

2018-06-12 18:25:53 CET

A lot of government departments in Ireland have their own domain name(s). Most are in .ie.

Semi-state bodies and embassies have a mixture of ccTLDs and gTLD registrations

Regards

Michele


--
Mr Michele Neylon
Blacknight Solutions
Hosting, Colocation & Domains
https://www.blacknight.com/
http://blacknight.blog/
Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
Personal blog: https://michele.blog/
Some thoughts: https://ceo.hosting/ 
-------------------------------
Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,Ireland  Company No.: 370845

On 12/06/2018, 17:10, "dns-wg on behalf of Niall O'Reilly" <dns-wg-bounces _at_ ripe _dot_ net on behalf of niall.oreilly _at_ ucd _dot_ ie> wrote:

    On 12 Jun 2018, at 15:45, Antonio Prado wrote:
    
    > so may I assume that just central government (and its departments of
    > course) uses third level domains under .gov.ie?
    
    I'm not in a position to confirm this.
    
    As you probably know, the DNS is both technically and administratively
    delegated.  You'll need to look to the delegatee for the confirmation
    you seek.
    
    This URL may be a place to start:
    https://www.iedr.ie/whois-result/?whois=gov
    
    Best regards,
    Niall O'Reilly
    

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Yiorgos Adamopoulos

2018-06-12 20:51:33 CET

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 5:51 PM Antonio Prado via dns-wg <dns-wg _at_ ripe _dot_ net>
wrote:

> On 6/12/18 1:43 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
> > I guess most answers will be "it depends" :-)
> any other colleague from other countries wants to contribute?
>

Anything in .gov.gr is definitely central government related (Greece) but
it is not always the only stuff out there.
-- 
keep raising the bar
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Hank Nussbacher

2018-06-13 06:32:26 CET

On 12/06/2018 17:51, Antonio Prado via dns-wg wrote:
> On 6/12/18 1:43 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
>> I guess most answers will be "it depends" :-)
> ok, just to recap:
>
> .gov.uk --> central and local
> .gov.ie --> central
> .gov.nl --> neither central nor local
> .go(u)v.fr --> central
> .gov.it --> central and local (to cancel local by the end of 2018)
>
> any other colleague from other countries wants to contribute?
>
> thank you
> --
> antonio
>
.gov.il is central gov't which allows one to go to various gov't
ministries like Ministry of Tourism or Ministry of Health all of which
are located under www.gov.il,  But some gov't ministries have their own
website like Ministry of Finance - http://www.mof.gov.il/.  It is
basically a mix - all of which can be found here -
https://www.gov.il/en/departments

-Hank





Rafał Galiński

2018-06-13 09:27:45 CET

Hi guys,

The gov.pl domain is reserved for registration only for designated entities.
Subscribers of names in .gov.pl domain may be public authorities,
professional self-government bodies, etc ..
We support many labels, such as: sa.gov.pl - Courts of Appeal, um.gov.pl
- Municipal Offices, kmpsp.gov.pl - City Headquarters of the State Fire
Service etc...
full list of supported zones:  https://www.dns.pl/gov/rejestracja-domen.html
PL Registry provide administrative and technical support for these domains.

Best,
Rafal

On 13.06.2018 06:32, Hank Nussbacher wrote:
> On 12/06/2018 17:51, Antonio Prado via dns-wg wrote:
>> On 6/12/18 1:43 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
>>> I guess most answers will be "it depends" :-)
>> ok, just to recap:
>>
>> .gov.uk --> central and local
>> .gov.ie --> central
>> .gov.nl --> neither central nor local
>> .go(u)v.fr --> central
>> .gov.it --> central and local (to cancel local by the end of 2018)
>>
>> any other colleague from other countries wants to contribute?
>>
>> thank you
>> --
>> antonio
>>
> .gov.il is central gov't which allows one to go to various gov't
> ministries like Ministry of Tourism or Ministry of Health all of which
> are located under www.gov.il,  But some gov't ministries have their own
> website like Ministry of Finance - http://www.mof.gov.il/.  It is
> basically a mix - all of which can be found here -
> https://www.gov.il/en/departments
> 
> -Hank
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
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Antonio Prado

2018-06-13 09:35:07 CET

On 6/13/18 9:27 AM, Rafał Galiński wrote:
> The gov.pl domain is reserved for registration only for designated entities.
> Subscribers of names in .gov.pl domain may be public authorities,
> professional self-government bodies, etc ..

hi,

is it possible to sum that .gov.pl is not for central governments only,
but also local (ie municipalities)?

thank you
--
antonio

Rafał Galiński

2018-06-13 09:37:58 CET


On 13.06.2018 09:35, Antonio Prado wrote:
> On 6/13/18 9:27 AM, Rafał Galiński wrote:
>> The gov.pl domain is reserved for registration only for designated entities.
>> Subscribers of names in .gov.pl domain may be public authorities,
>> professional self-government bodies, etc ..
> 
> hi,
> 
> is it possible to sum that .gov.pl is not for central governments only,
> but also local (ie municipalities)?

Exactly.

best,
Rafal

> 
> thank you
> --
> antonio
> 

-- 
Niniejsza wiadomość jest własnością NASK i może zawierać informacje
stanowiące tajemnicę  przedsiębiorstwa, poufne  i/lub  prawnie
chronione.  Jeśli  nie  są  Państwo właściwym adresatem (lub otrzymali
Państwo wiadomość na skutek pomyłki), prosimy o  tym  fakcie
niezwłocznie poinformować nadawcę i usunąć otrzymaną wiadomość.
Każde  nieautoryzowane  kopiowanie,  ujawnianie  lub  rozpowszechnianie
załączonej informacji jest zabronione.
**
This e-mail is  property of NASK and may contain business secrets,
confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended
recipient (or have received this e-mail  by  mistake)  please  notify
the  sender  immediately  and  destroy  this  e-mail.  Any unauthorized
 copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is
strictly forbidden.

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Janos Zsako

2018-06-13 10:09:09 CET

Dear Antonio,

> I hope you can help me on a not-so-related-to-DNS question.
> 
> does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
> central government bodies and not local government or other public
> administrations as well?

gov.hu is a protected name. The registry delegates it only to a
central government designated body.

What it is used for, is up to them. As far as I can tell, it is used
only by central government, but they could allow any other use too.

Local governments usually use the name of the city/village as it is
reserved for them.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Janos

> thank you
> --
> antonio
> 

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Ulrich Wisser

2018-06-13 15:25:40 CET

Hi!

In the Swedish ccTLD .se we do not have any protected SLD (any longer). But
gov.se is registered by the central government, but seems currently unused.

/Ulrich


Janos Zsako <zsako _at_ iszt _dot_ hu> schrieb am Mi., 13. Juni 2018 um 10:09 Uhr:

> Dear Antonio,
>
> > I hope you can help me on a not-so-related-to-DNS question.
> >
> > does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
> > central government bodies and not local government or other public
> > administrations as well?
>
> gov.hu is a protected name. The registry delegates it only to a
> central government designated body.
>
> What it is used for, is up to them. As far as I can tell, it is used
> only by central government, but they could allow any other use too.
>
> Local governments usually use the name of the city/village as it is
> reserved for them.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Best regards,
> Janos
>
> > thank you
> > --
> > antonio
> >
>
> --
Ulrich Wisser
ulrich _at_ wisser _dot_ se
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Bengt Gördén

2018-06-13 17:21:05 CET

Den 2018-06-13 kl. 15:25, skrev Ulrich Wisser:
> Hi!
>
> In the Swedish ccTLD .se we do not have any protected SLD (any
> longer). But gov.se  is registered by the central
> government, but seems currently unused.

Almost true. Some are barred and one could argue that it's not protected
but the outcome is the same. You can't use them.

https://www.iis.se/statistics/barred_domains_list.txt


>
> /Ulrich
>
>
> Janos Zsako <zsako _at_ iszt _dot_ hu zsako _at_ iszt _dot_ hu>> schrieb am Mi., 13.
> Juni 2018 um 10:09 Uhr:
>
>     Dear Antonio,
>
>     > I hope you can help me on a not-so-related-to-DNS question.
>     >
>     > does the SLD .gov.* within european countries' ccTLDs identify only
>     > central government bodies and not local government or other public
>     > administrations as well?
>
>     gov.hu  is a protected name. The registry delegates
>     it only to a
>     central government designated body.
>
>     What it is used for, is up to them. As far as I can tell, it is used
>     only by central government, but they could allow any other use too.
>
>     Local governments usually use the name of the city/village as it is
>     reserved for them.
>
>     I hope this helps.
>
>     Best regards,
>     Janos
>
>     > thank you
>     > --
>     > antonio
>     >
>
> -- 
> Ulrich Wisser
> ulrich _at_ wisser _dot_ se ulrich _at_ wisser _dot_ se>


-- 

Bengt Gördén
Resilans AB

Florian Weimer

2018-06-13 22:59:08 CET

* Antonio Prado via dns-wg:

> On 6/12/18 1:43 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:
>> I guess most answers will be "it depends" :-)
>
> ok, just to recap:
>
> .gov.uk --> central and local
> .gov.ie --> central
> .gov.nl --> neither central nor local
> .go(u)v.fr --> central
> .gov.it --> central and local (to cancel local by the end of 2018)
>
> any other colleague from other countries wants to contribute?

bund.de is used by the German federal government.  I'm not aware of
any non-federal users.

gov.tr is “for the use of the Turkish governmental organizations and
institutions“.  It is open to provincial/district governments as well.
If I recall correctly, in the past, there were some odd delegations
under it which were difficult to square with this policy.

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Peter Koch

2018-06-14 07:09:12 CET

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:59:08PM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote:

> bund.de is used by the German federal government.  I'm not aware of
> any non-federal users.

this is true, but the name is in no way special. It is just a registration
like any other, DE does not have any 'structure' at the second level (and
essentially never had).
Also, not all government entities use domains under 'bund.de', which would be an
orthogonal policy perspective.
I'm really curious what this little survey is really up to.

-Peter

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Antonio Prado

2018-06-14 16:03:23 CET

On 6/14/18 7:09 AM, Peter Koch wrote:
> I'm really curious what this little survey is really up to.

hi,

a 2009 law forced any italian public administration to acquire a domain
name under the SLD .gov.it.

instead, last february 2018 the italian digital agency (at the prime
minister's office) determined that the domain name SLD .gov.it was
dedicated to the exclusive use of the central government by premising that:

'the second level domain (SLD) ".gov", when used, identifies only the
administrations within the EU and the USA (as the first level) central
government, with the exception of the United Kingdom, and not without
distinction any central and local public administration including
educational institutions (for which the SLD ".edu" is used) as is the
case today in Italy.'

so now it happens that tens of thousands of institutions must abandon,
by 2018, the domain name * .gov.it with the imaginable amount of issues
that will last over time and with a series of unexpected costs.

I would just like to clarify whether it is true that among the EU
countries the SLD .gov.it is used EXCLUSIVELY for central government
departments.

at the moment it seems that:

.gov.ie --> central
.go(u)v.fr --> central
.gov.gr --> central
.gov.hu --> central

.gov.uk --> central and local
.gov.pl --> central and local
.gov.tr --> central and local
.gov.it --> central and local (to cancel local by the end of 2018)

.gov.nl --> neither central nor local
.gov.se --> neither central nor local
.gov.de --> neither central nor local


thank you
--
antonio


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Peter Koch

2018-06-25 00:38:26 CET

Antonio, all,

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 04:03:23PM +0200, Antonio Prado wrote:

> 'the second level domain (SLD) ".gov", when used, identifies only the
> administrations within the EU and the USA (as the first level) central
> government, with the exception of the United Kingdom, and not without
> distinction any central and local public administration including
> educational institutions (for which the SLD ".edu" is used) as is the
> case today in Italy.'

thanks for sharing this background.

Colleagues within CENTR (representing ccTLDs within Europe, but also
beyond as shown below) were kind enough to provide first hand information
for the following list of TLDs:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BG	In Bulgaria the e-government law says that government agencies should use sub domains of gov.bg
CH	gov.ch is reserved exclusively for Swiss authorities and registered by the Federal Chancellery. However, it is the SLD admin.ch that is used for the websites of Swiss authorities. admin.ch on the other hand is not exclusively reserved for Swiss authorities.
CZ	gov.cz domain is registered for Ministry of the Interior of the Czech Republic and used as the information portal of public administration, as well as the third-level names are created and used by some of public authorities.
DE	has no predefined structure at the second level. gov.de is registered, but unrelated to government.
DK	the registrant of gov.dk is the Danish state, but it does not seem to be in use as such. Most governmental authorities prefer to have their own specific .dk domain name.
EE	The gov.ee is used by Estonian Government but it is not reserved exclusively for them. At .ee we don't reserve any domain names for central government. We have a list of reserved names for the respective local governments - (see regulation here ).
ES	We have an SLD "gob.es", reserved to Government (central, regional or local) More precisely, art. 10.d of the 2005 National Plan on domain names under ".es" reserves ".gob.es" to "Spanish Public Administrations and the Public Bodies responsible to them, including any branches, agencies and units thereof." See http://www.dominios.es/dominios/sites/dominios/files/normativa_en1.pdf
EU	The "gov.eu" is on the list of reserved name by the EU institutions, and not in use
FI	gov.fi is used by Finnish Government but it is not reserved exclusively for them. At .fi we don't reserve any domain names for central government (or anyone else).
FR	I confirm that .gouv.fr is reserved to the French government. Although it is not clearly established that it is restricted to the "central" government, each registration requires the approval of the Government Information Service.
IE	At .ie, gov.ie is reserved for the Irish Government.  In practice, it appears to be used by 'central' government departments only.
IL	The SLD Gov.il is managed since the 90's by the e-GOV unit at PM office.  Basically, domains under GOV.il are for government bodies only (including parliament, central bank, regulators etc.). Local municipalities can register under muni.il (with 2 exceptions TelAviv.gov.il and Jerusalem.gov. Il for historic reasons).
JP	I hope information about non-EU ccTLD helps a bit: .go.jp is a space strictly for central government.  .lg.jp is a space strictly for local government
LT	gov.lt domain was created in 2004. The use of gov.lt domain is dedicated to the state institutions of the Republic of Lithuania at various levels of central, counties, districts and local authorities administration levels.
LU	gov.lu is registered by the government but is, as far as we can see, not used as to create third-level names
LV	.gov.lv is designated to government and a local government or other public persons established by law. Registrations in this subdomain are handled by the Latvia State Radio and Television Centre (LVRTC) according to Regulation of Cabinet of Ministers "Procedures by which Institutions Place Information on the Internet".
NL	The domain name gov.nl was originally a reserved domain name, but in 2005 we gave our government the opportunity to register the domain name. They did and they seem to use it for a redirect to their main website.  As far as we know, there is no specific applicable law about the use of this domain name and the registrant is contractual free to use the domain name as he pleases.
PL	The .gov.pl is  used by central government and other governmental organisations according to the officially announced list.
PT	In Portugal, domain names under .gov.pt may be registered only by entities which are part of the Government structure of the Portuguese Republic
RO	I confirm that gov.ro and guv.ro are reserved for Romanian government.
SE	Gov.se is registered by the Swedish government and used by them.
SI	gov.si is managed by Ministy for Public Afairs and used by government entities.
SK	gov.sk is managed by Prime Minister's Office and reserved for government institutions with no clear distinction defined anywhere.
UK	The gov.uk is of course used by central government but it is not reserved exclusively for central govt. As you can see Oxford City Council use a gov.uk	
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note that a "gov" SLD (or any equivalent spelling, translation or transliteration)
may or may not be a 'special' SLD as per the policy of the registry and also there is the
orthogonal aspect (usually outside the scope of registry policy) what SLDs are to be
chosen for public/governmental entities.
Clearly, where gov.${cctld} exists, the list provides a variety of rules and practices.
It goes without saying that by explaining their specific situation, nobody is taking any
position regarding the case that initiated this thread.

Regards,
  Peter

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Antonio Prado

2018-06-25 12:33:14 CET

On 6/25/18 12:38 AM, Peter Koch wrote:
> Colleagues within CENTR (representing ccTLDs within Europe, but also
> beyond as shown below) were kind enough to provide first hand information
> for the following list of TLDs:

Peter,

thank you for this useful summary.

I took a parallel survey during the two last weeks which I merged with
your findings and put on this sheet: https://goo.gl/Hfb8Sc

At the moment I had no reply from .at and .be

thank you to everybody who helped
--
antonio

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Arsen Stasic

2018-06-26 13:42:46 CET

* Antonio Prado <antonio _at_ prado _dot_ it> [2018-06-25 12:33 (+0200)]:
>On 6/25/18 12:38 AM, Peter Koch wrote:
>> Colleagues within CENTR (representing ccTLDs within Europe, but also
>> beyond as shown below) were kind enough to provide first hand information
>> for the following list of TLDs:
>
>Peter,
>
>thank you for this useful summary.
>
>I took a parallel survey during the two last weeks which I merged with
>your findings and put on this sheet: https://goo.gl/Hfb8Sc
>
>At the moment I had no reply from .at and .be

Antonio,

gov.at is delegated to the federal government (Austrian Federal Chancellery), but 
is not really used and has no further subdelegations underneath.

gv.at is used for all kind of governmental (local and federal) 
delegations underneath.
See also txt RR in gv.at
dig gv.at txt +short
"subdomain for governmental sites in Austria"
"http://www.wien.gv.at/ma14/netzwerkdienste/gv-at-domaintemplate.html"

cheers,
-arsen