RIPE 45 Meeting

Draft Minutes from the Plenary Session

Date: Thursday and Friday, 15 and 16 May 2003
Location: Hotel Fira Palace Barcelona, Spain
Scribe: Nick Hyrka

The RIPE 45 Meeting presentations can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/webcast-archive.html

Meeting commenced at 14:05

Agenda:

1. Opening & Welcome
2. Agenda
3. Minutes from RIPE 44
4. From the Chair
5. Reports from the Other RIRs
   a. ARIN
   b. LACNIC
   c. APNIC
6. Report from the RIPE NCC & AfriNIC Progress
7. Report from ICANN
8. RE: RIPE 271
9. RIPE NCC Open Forum:
   a. 2002 Membership Survey
10. IPv6 & the European Strategy
11. RIPE Open Forum
    a. Working Groups
    b. EOF
12. Reports from RIPE Working Groups
13. Next Meetings
    a. RIPE 46 1-5 September 2003, Amsterdam
    b. RIPE 47 26-30 January 2004, Amsterdam
    c. RIPE 48 3-7 May 2004, Amsterdam
14. AOB
15. Close

1.) Opening & Welcome

Presented by: Rob Blokzijl, RIPE Chair

The Chair welcomed the attendees and reviewed the RIPE 45 meeting agenda. He announced additions to the meeting plan including an ENUM BoF and a working group session on technical security on the Internet.

Rob acknowledged proposals to restructure some working groups, including the possible merging of the DNR Forum and the DNS Working Group and the change to the name of the LIR Working Group. The LIR Working Group would be split into two new working groups, the RIPE Address Policy Working Group and the RIPE NCC Services Working Group.

The Chair asked for comments. There were none.

2.) Agenda

Agenda was adopted as published.

3.) Minutes of the RIPE 44 Meeting

The minutes were approved without comment.

4.) From the Chair

The Chair announced a change to this meeting's agenda. Agenda now as listed above.

5.) Reports from the Other RIRs

ARIN
Presented by: Leslie Nobile, ARIN

This presentation can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-arin/

LACNIC
Presented by: Hartmut Richard Glaser, LACNIC

This presentation can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-lacnic/

APNIC
Presented by: Paul Wilson, APNIC

This presentation can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-apnic/

6.) Report from the RIPE NCC & AfriNIC Progress

Presented by: Axel Pawlik, Managing Director of the RIPE NCC

The report detailed updates at the RIPE NCC including

• organisational structure,
• update to the RIPE NCC 2002 Membership Survey,
• identifying actions from survey results (including RIPE Meeting rejuvenation),
• member participation (including the move of the annual General Meeting adjacent to RIPE 46),
• member/community involvement (including the Membership Update publication,
• webcasting core events at RIPE Meetings,
• investigation of real-time stenography,
• investigation of document and web site translations, starting regional membership support,
• investigation of new training formats),
• information provision, new projects update (including TTM, RIS, DISI and DNSSec projects),
• financial administration,
• technical operations,
• registration services,
• communications,
• membership liaison,
• RIR co-ordination,
• AfriNIC developments,
• and an ICANN update.

This presentation can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-ncc/

RIPE Chair, Rob Blokzijl, introduced Kees Neggers, the Chair of the RIPE NCC Executive Board, who recognised former Executive Board member, Nigel Titley, for his work on the Board and service to the RIPE NCC membership.

- - BREAK - -

7.) Report from ICANN

Presented by: Paul Towmey, newly elected President and CEO of ICANN

Towmey spoke on his intent to meet members of the RIPE and other RIR communities to discuss address concerns. He said that ICANN was a community and industry driven forum and noted past concerns about ICANN made by industry colleagues and organisations. He also noted that the ICANN reform process had been so far effective. He noted his plan to build a "more mature management structure" that includes the appointment of a director of the IANA. He noted his intention to work with the IETF and others to map out the IANA function and voiced the need for community input in his outreach goals. He stressed that ICANN was a forum for policy development and that the responsibility of the ICANN staff was to only execute policy.

The Chair opened the floor to questions for Towmey.

- Question raised on the plan and timeframe to remove the U.S. government from influencing policy issues.
- Towmey said that the proposed "ICANN 3.0" plan will address the issue and noted that the U.S. government has an historical role in ICANN, though he felt the influence was "benign."
- Comment that IANA, as one entity under a single jurisdiction, could be a single point of security failure, putting a potential risk on resource distribution.
- Towmey noted that he was not a technical person but that the IANA was a highly technical and complex entity with several concerned stakeholders and other parties.

8.) RE: RIPE 271

Presented by: Daniel Karrenberg, Chef Scientist, RIPE NCC

Daniel spoke on RIPE 271, "RIPE NCC Hostcount in the 21st Century," noting that the membership survey revealed that membership concerns and the RIPE NCC's reactions to them should be addressed sooner.

He also noted the reasons why measurement and statistics gathering done by the RIPE NCC were of value to the membership:

• Statistics on routing and the routing table growth are useful in developing policy. Route servers are useful to the operations of the RIPE NCC.
• Measurement services, such as TTM and RIS, are used by the membership to see trends and to help in planning.
• Statistics and measurements are focused also on wider audience such as governments, government regulators and industry players and become a tool for users.

Daniel proposed reviewing the strengths, weaknesses and privacy concerns of the measurement and statistics tools.
He also proposed to build on the strengths of neutral and active measuring to help develop new services, such as incident analysis, and recommended attendees to see the RIPE document on the sapphire worm.
Daniel proposed to develop general and abstract analysis on routing as well as personalised statistics and measurements focused on members' needs, such as "myAS." He noted that the RIPE NCC should develop simpler, easier-to-use and more immediately useful measurement products.
Computer-based training on how to use the measurement products could also be developed.

Daniel announced that the TTM closed user group will be discontinued and all data would be made publicly accessible.

Daniel noted that financial support from the RIPE NCC budget for measurement services, including TTM, would be necessary. He asked for support from the RIPE NCC membership to spend approximately 600kEUR per year, translating to about 5% of the current operating expenses. Daniel requested feedback from the community on the proposals with the anticipation they would be discussed at the next annual General Meeting adjacent to RIPE 46.

Chair asked for reactions.

- Question on whether there were plans to measure volumes.
- Daniel replied that volumes relate as passive measurements and there are concerns about that.
- Comment backing Daniel's proposals with a request that the measurements be expanded.
- Question on whether the measurements will be made in a global fashion.
- Daniel stated he is seeking support from the RIPE community and RIPE NCC membership and, if other RIR communities show interest, this could be possible.
- Comment that measuring things is good, recognising the RIPE NCC's measurements being respected but that there were potential flaws that could bring undesired consequences and reactions.
- Daniel acknowledged such risks and said the information held greater value than taking the risk.
- Comment suggesting a presentation at the next RIPE Meeting with updates on financing, as concerns on activities that are not Internet address numbering issues at the RIPE NCC should be noted.
- Comment that the RIPE NCC will make bandwidth measurements and volume data available.
- Comment supporting the usefulness and subsidisation of the measurement services noting that, if services outside core services of the RIPE NCC were stopped, these services would still be needed.
- Chair noted that he and members of the RIPE NCC would be attending a meeting in Brussels where he will deliver statistics and useful data, noting that the measurements compiled by the RIPE NCC have been useful.Chair cautioned attendees not to judge measurement services solely on the cost but on practical use.

The document RIPE 271, "RIPE NCC Hostcount in the 21st Century," can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/hostcount.html

The RIPE NCC analysis report "Sapphire/Slammer Worm Impact on Internet Performance" can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ttm/worm/

Part 1 of the Plenary closed at 17:05.

Part 2, Friday 16 May 2003

Meeting commenced at 9:30.

The Chair welcomed attendees to the second half of the Plenary.

9.) IPv6 & the European Strategy

Presented by: Jordi Palet, Consolintel

The report detailed a brief history of IPv6, the IPv6 activities in Europe for the RIPE community, the support and deployment of IPv6 within the European industry, and the actions needed for IPv6 expansion. Jordi also provided a brief report on the IPv6 Summit in Madrid on 15 May 2003.

- Comment on the need to clarify RIPE and the RIPE NCC as partners in projects, noting that RIPE does not exist as an organisation.

This presentation can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-ipv6-strategy.pdf

10.) RIPE NCC Open Forum: Membership Survey

Presented by Axel Pawlik, RIPE NCC

Axel reminded attendees about RIPE NCC membership fees and its measurement activities, asking attendees for reactions on how the fees are used.

- Comment that the use depended on the "plus and minus side" and that care should be taken in evaluating the projects and their value to the community.
- Comment that the RIPE NCC membership is very broad and the activities can be funded based on the wants of the membership.

Axel asked for comment on other activities of the RIPE NCC.
- There were no other comments

Axel reminded attendees on how to contact the RIPE NCC. He noted that the RIPE NCC would alert the community to the organisation's activities.

11.) RIPE Open Forum: Working Groups & EOF

The Chair reminded the attendees on the week's EOF sessions and asked for feedback on future EOFs.

- There was unanimous support from the audience.

Daniel Karrenberg then addressed the audience and said that their support was crucial to the continuation of the EOF. He noted that organising each EOF was time-consuming for the RIPE NCC and that more input from the community was needed to produce well-functioning EOFs.

The Chair then spoke on the reorganisation of the RIPE Working Groups, noting the merger of the DNR Forum and DNS Working Group into one; the split of the LIR Working Group; the creation of the RIPE NCC Services Working Group; and the termination of the NetNews Working Group while keeping its mailing list active. The Chair also noted the need to review the charters of all RIPE Working Groups with respective Working Group Chairs. He asked if there were other issues needing to be addressed and/or reconsidered for future RIPE Meetings.

- Comment on how to best meet the interests of the two groups who attend RIPE Meetings: those who are technical and those who are on the managerial level, suggesting an open call could be put out to the community on proposed activities at upcoming RIPE Meetings two or three weeks before the meeting.

Chair acknowledged the concern and stated that working group agendas should be collected and published well in advance of the meetings, noting this is not always the case. He said that more effort should be made in publishing agendas earlier.

- Comment that labelling agenda items with a "T" for technical issues and an "M" for managerial issues would be a helpful reference for potential attendees.

Chair asked for other comments on other issues.

- There was no further comment.

12.) Reports from RIPE Working Groups

Routing

Presented by: Joachim Schmitz, AOL, Inc.

There were 184 attendees.
Topics included securing BGP protocol, soBGP deployment, updates on RPSLng, peering strategies, BGP updates in Cisco IOS, BGP route advertisement intervals, delaying BGP updates, and observed properties of BGP convergence, and action items related to unallocated IP address space.

More information on this Working Group session will be available at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/

-- BREAK --

The Chair recognised Bettina Schroeder of the RIPE NCC for her work co-ordinating RIPE Meetings, noting that RIPE 45 was Bettina's final meeting as she moves to another position at the RIPE NCC.

DNR Forum

Presented by: Jaap Akkerhuis, DNR Working Group Chair

There were77 attendees. Topics included administration, DNR Forum organisation, the proposal to combine future DNR and DNS concerns under the DN* Working Group, EPP documentation, and IDN deployment.

More information on this Working Group session can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-dnr/

DNS Working Group

Presented by: Jim Reid, DNS Working Group Chair

There were132 attendees. Topics included administration, an IETF update, BIND news, ccTLD name server measurements, DNS delegation checking, and a panel session on delegation, policy and implementation.

More information on this Working Group session will be available at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/

LIR Working Group

Presented by: Gert Doering, Working Group Co-Chair

(Note: This was the final presentation of the LIR Working Group as it has been split into two new groups: the Address Policy Working Group and the RIPE NCC Services Working Group.)

There were 132 and 108 attendees in the two sessions. Topics included administration, policy discussions, a RIPE NCC Registration Services report, an ICANN ASO Address Council report, a discussion on the change in the working group name, PKI, status value attributes and action items.

The RIPE Chair gave a brief explanation on the announced change in the groups, noting that Kurt Lindqvist of Netnod Internet Exchange would chair the new RIPE NCC Services Working Group. The Chair requested assistance from community members in the creation of the charter for the group. He encouraged continued use of the working group mailing lists.

More information on this Working Group session can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-lir.pdf

Tools Working Group

Presented by: Manuel Valente RIPE NCC

(Note: This was the final presentation of the Tools Working Group. Concerns and discussions about tools have been integrated into the new RIPE NCC Services Working Group.)

There were 73 attendees. Topics included administration, a "ZoneCheck" tool, Whois Database updates and software, an LIR Portal update, and the deactivation of the Tools WG with the new RIPE NCC Services Working Group assuming its content.

More information on this Working Group session can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-tools/

NetNews Working Group

Presented by: Dave Wilson, Netnews Working Group Chair Note:

There was no NetNews Working Group session at RIPE 45. Dave noted that this group would be deactivated but the mailing list would remain active.

IPv6 Working Group

Presented by: David Kessens, IPv6 Working Group Chair

There were 156 attendees. Topics included administration, enabling reverse delegation for 6bone, AAAA glue records, investigating with IANA increase in size of RIR allocations, routing table status, and v6 traffic volume.

More information on this Working Group session will be available at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/index.html#plenary

EIX Working Group

Presented by: Fearghas McKay, EIX Working Group Chair

There were 119 attendees. Topics included administration, EURO-IX, an IPv6 policy update, WiFi roaming, and the change in future Working Group sessions scheduling.

More information on this Working Group session can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-eix/

TechSec Working Group

Presented by Daniel Karrenberg, RIPE NCC

There were 99 attendees. Topics included administration, DISI project, route zone signing, the "FunKey" project, and security response.

More information on this Working Group session will be available at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/

Database Working Group

Presented by: Wilfried Woeber, Database Working Group Chair

There were60 attendees. Topics included administration, database operational update, quality of control data, new dbupdate, Database and Software project co-ordination, a discussion on disallowing"auth:none", reviewing the Working Group's mission statement, and streamlining the " status: attribute."

More information on this Working Group session can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-db/

Anti-Spam Working Group

Presented by: Rodney Tillotson, Anti-Spam Working Group Chair

There were 53 attendees. Topics included administration, updates and technical measures, interactions, advice and future tasks.

More information on this Working Group session can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-antispam/

Test Traffic Working Group

Presented by: Henk Uijterwaal, RIPE NCC

There were 66 attendees. Topics included administration, call for a co-chair, TTM project update, the RIPE document "RIPE NCC Hostcount in the 21st Century", the spectrum of Internet performance, first IPv6 measurements using TTM, and myAS tutorial.

- Comment on TTM measurements and which RIPE Working Group the measurement services will be discussed in future RIPE Meetings.
- Henk confirmed that the RIPE NCC Services Working Group would be where measurement services will be discussed.

More information on this Working Group session can be found at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-45/presentations/ripe45-plenary-tt/

Secret Working Group

Presented by: Olaf Kolkman, RIPE NCC

13.) Next Meeting

The next RIPE Meeting will be RIPE 46, from 1-5 September 2003, at the NH Grand Hotel Krasnapolsky in Amsterdam.

14.) AOB

There was no other business.

15.) Close of Meeting

The Chair thanked the staff of the RIPE NCC and the organisations that supported the RIPE 45 Meeting: Thanks to: RedIRIS, CESCA, SATEC, FocusPoint, MFN, SURFnet, NRN.

The RIPE NCC The Chair thanked everyone for attending and invited attendees to participate in RIPE 46: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/

Meeting closed at 12:10.