RIPE 41 Plenary

Minutes: N. Hyrka, A. Sarras
14 - 18 January 2002, Grand Hotel Krasnapolsky, Amsterdam

Rob Blokzijl - Chair of RIPE presiding

Scribes: N. Hyrka, A. Sarras

All presentations can be located at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-41/presentations/

Meeting commenced: 09:30

1. Opening and Welcome
2. Agenda Bashing
3. Minutes from RIPE 40
4. From the Chair
5. Operational Report from The RIPE NCC, Axel Pawlik
6. Review of RIPE NCC Processes, Rob Blokzijl
7. Reports from the Other RIR's - APNIC and ARIN
8. Joint RIR Statistics
9. Reports from Emerging RIR's, LACNIC and AfriNIC
10. ICANN Report
11. Speaker: Mark Blanchet, Viagenie, Canada
12. Speaker: David Ward, Cisco Systems, U.S.A.
Title: Network and Node Availability Improvements through Routing Protocol and Signalling Extensions
13. Reports from the WG's
14. AOB
15. Closing

1.) Opening & Welcome

The Chair, Rob Blokzijl, welcomed attendees to the RIPE 41 plenary session. He mentioned the message that the next RIPE Meeting will be here in Amsterdam. The Chair noted that the city will be very crowded and that it will be difficult to book hotels. The Chair noted that registration will open next week for next RIPE meeting and the first 200 rooms at the Krasnapolsky are available on a "first come" basis.
The Chair said that the Monday at RIPE 42 will be EOF; Tuesday morning we will have meetings but the afternoon will contain no Working Group sessions.
It was noted that all necessary information would be explained on web site in great detail.

Registration will open next week for next RIPE meeting. It is advisable to register and book your hotel accommodation early:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-42/

2.) Agenda Bashing

The agenda was agreed as mentioned above.

3.) Minutes RIPE 40

Issued late. Final approved minutes will be published within two weeks.

4.) From the Chair

Brief welcome and an introduction of Axel Pawlik for agenda item 5.

5.) Operational Report from the RIPE NCC / Axel Pawlik

Axel welcomed all of the RIR colleagues to the RIPE meeting.
The Hostmaster group commended. Axel explained that his presentation comprised contributions from all activity areas of the RIPE NCC and that he represented them in giving the status report.

Axel noted that Mirjam Kühne has been nominated for a seat on the IAB.

Axel mentioned that Rob Blokzijl's term as an ICANN Director would be up later this year; nominations are now open until 6 February 2002.

Axel closed his presentation by asking for questions.
- No questions were asked.

Comment by Daniel Karrenberg regarding the ASO nominations. One of the nominees was from the US and geography may be an issue.

Comment by Cathy Wittbrodt member answered Daniel's remark by saying that a person can be nominated from any region but that the picking process has to be done per region from the appropriate seat.

Comment from Rob Blokzijl who stated that the body that elects is the Address Council.

Comment from Richard Jimmerson from ARIN clarified that the regions this year are Europe, Latin America and Africa.

Axel Pawlik concluded by thanking the hard working staff of the RIPE NCC. He then thanked his team at the RIPE NCC for their hard work.

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-41/presentations/plenary-ripencc/index.html

6.) Review of RIPE NCC processes / Rob Blokzijl

Review of policy making process between RIPE and the RIPE NCC

This project was introduced at the last RIPE Meeting. Rob was requested to write a document on the interaction between RIPE and RIPE NCC. Rob said that he promised to produce a document to describe this process but he has not done that yet.

Rob said that there is a slight shift within the RIPE NCC now.
Mirjam's tasks are being re-allocated to other persons.

Once these shifts are in place and working, Rob will be writing a document on the current situation, condition and responsibilities and include a description of the role of the RIPE NCC as well as his role. It will further include an idea of how the organisation came to be and where it is heading.

Rob noted that it is hoped that the document will be ready by the next RIPE Meeting.

7.) Reports from the other RIRs - APNIC and ARIN

Report for APNIC / Anne Lord.

APNIC 13
Anne announced that APNIC 13 would be in Bangkok 3-7 March in conjunction with the APRICOT 2002 meeting.
More information is available on the APNIC web site:

http://www.apnic.net/meetings/index.html

There were no questions or comments.

http://www.apnic.net/net_comm/presentations/ripe.html

Report from ARIN / Ray Plzak.

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-41/presentations/plenary-arin/index.html

Ray showed a picture of new ARIN offices.

ARIN IX Meeting

• Meeting to be in Las Vegas, 7-10 April 2002.
• Training and tutorials will be provided.

Ray closed his presentation with a request for questions.
-There were no questions or comments.

http://www.arin.net/library/minutes/ARIN_IX/Members.html

There were no questions or comments.

- - Break - -

The Chair welcomed participants back to the meeting.
He spoke briefly regarding the RIPE dinner; that directions were available at the Registration Desk.

Henk Uijterwaal presented a short presentation on network measurements collected at the RIPE Meeting measuring traffic between the Krasnapolsky and the rest of the world.

8.) Joint Regional Internet Registry Statistics / Nurani Nimpuno

Nurani noted that she has delivered these presentations since 2000 as a common RIR statistics project. She further stated that we now have enough global data collected to be able to spot trends and follow address consumption in all regions.

There were no questions or comments.

The Chair thanked Nurani and the three RIRs for producing the material, calling it "very valuable data".

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-41/presentations/plenary-globalrir-stats/index.html

9.) Reports from emerging RIR's, LACNIC and AfriNic

No reports were presented from the emerging RIRs.

10.) ICANN Report / M. Stuart Lynn presenting.

Stuart noted that ICANN is set up for the internationalisation and privatisation of functions managed by the US Dept of Commerce.

Staffing
Stuart noted that they now have 17 staff on board, with a director of communications (Mary Hewitt) added.

• They've also added a receptionist.
• He noted that recruiting is in progress for other positions, subject to funding.

Stuart stated that ICANN is assisting the emerging RIRs, LACNIC and AfriNIC and mentioned his appreciation for the help and input from all who have participated in their evolution.
He stated that ICANN is now working to improve IANA performance.

ICANN Structure
Stuart noted that, generally, the ICANN structure includes good discussions in developing an agreement with the RIRs.

• One item is being finalised before the agreement with the RIRs can be completed.
• He voiced his pleasure with the level of co-operation with all parties.

Next ICANN Meeting
Stuart noted that the next ICANN Meeting will be in Accra, Ghana, March 11-14, 2002 and hopes many will attend.

• Get your yellow fever shots before coming - it's required.
• Don't procrastinate in planning to join.

Stuart closed his presentation with a request for questions.

There were no questions.

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-41/presentations/plenary-icann/index.html

11.) Speaker: Mark Blanchet, Viagenie, Canada, co-chair of the IETF IDN Working Group

Marc Blanchet delivered a presentation titled "Internationalisation of Domain Names". Following his presentation, he asked the audience for questions and comments.

Q: Whether Marc was trying to make it work or prove that it's not going to work?

A: ACE encoding is fairly optimum.

Q: "But it didn't look like that..."?

Marc replied that his group has used several test beds and chose the best one. He agreed with Doering that it was not essentially as good. But, he said, the change in the DNS protocol is difficult to do.

Comment from an audience member suggesting that "the longer the name you have, the shorter and more efficient name you will get. "There is compression in there as well."

Comment from Daniel Karrenberg regarding the implications this system may have on other protocols.

Q: Which protocols would be affected?

A: There should be no impact overall. The "safe word" is that there is work in progress and that the message that was sent from the IETF was to use industry standards and not propriety material.

Q: Regarding Unicode and stringprep, suggesting that unicode strings are case sensitive and many of the protocols use unicode.

A: They were generalising the nameprep aspect and it is called stringprep. Suggested that if a person doesn't know the resources of unicode then they could not do comparing.

Q: Request to give a comparison of his proposal and another proposal from Singapore on IDN.

A: No knowledge of other initiative but there is consensus on open solution, such as he described in his proposal. Many other companies were working on this.

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-41/presentations/plenary-idn.pdf

The Chair thanked Marc for his presentation.
The Chair concluded the first day of the plenary session.

***

PLENARY SESSION - DAY 2 - Friday 18 January 2002

The Chair welcomed the audience and speakers. He introduced David Ward of Cisco and his presentation.

12.) Speaker: David Ward, Cisco Systems, U.S.A.

Title: Network and Node Availability Improvements Through Routing Protocol and Signalling Extensions

There were no other questions.

- - BREAK - -

13.) Reports from the Working Groups

Tools Working Group / Manuel Valente.

Manuel Valente:

Manuel gave a summary of the Tools Working Group session.

• There were 63 attendees.
• There were 3 presentations at this Working Group meeting.
• Manuel announced that, for those people who missed Andrew McDowell's presentation, "Whois CGI Web Interface", at RIPE 40, it was available to download from the RIPE NCC web site.
• Web IP Request: a new version of the web IP request form was proposed by Maldwyn Morris.
• There was an informal meeting on IPMT, a tool for the management of IP addresses.
• The mailing list for IPMT discussion can be found at: Ipmt-dev@ripe.net
• The second presentation was made by Kevin Baker of the RIPE NCC on "PGP for Hostmasters", a presentation requested by the Tools Working Group.
• It stated how e-mail messages sent to the RIPE NCC Hostmasters will be signed by a PGP key.
• Not all outgoing messages to LIRs are signed using a PGP key but will be soon.

The third presentation was "RPSL Library" from Shane Kerr of the RIPE NCC.

• Allows users to verify and parse objects; can verify the content.
• There is a C interface and a Perl module.
• It can be downloaded from the RIPE NCC FTP site.

Future developments:

• IPMT tool will be developed.
• Development on the server site; develop secure web server functionality on the RIPE NCC server
• Comments on these developments are welcome.

Community Contribution:
Manuel noted that the presentations were made by the RIPE NCC staff but that any one in the RIPE community can participate.
- If you have tools to share with the community, please contribute; the Tools Working Group is interested in hearing from you. Contributions can be sent to: <mvalente@ripe.net>

There were no questions.

RIPE DNR Forum / Faye Howard.

Faye noted that the Working Group session took place on Wednesday.

• There were 68 participants.
• They had a technical update from Jaap Akkerhuis who reported on relevant developments at the IETF.
• The Whois fix does not look well and may fade away.
• Presentations on DNSSEC and IDN were given in other Working Groups.

Whois Initiatives

• Leslie Daigle and Andrew Newton
• Port 43 or not port 43?
• The issue is still up for debate, if you wish to contribute.
• uWhois and data protection duties.

DNS BIND support

• Lynda McGinley gave a report.

CENTR

• Marian Wolfsgruber of CENTR presented on the key concern on the ccTLD agreement with ICANN.
• Gabriella Schittek is the new communications and project officer at CENTR.

Czech Republic Registry

• Tomas Marsalek gave an update from the Czech Republic registry
• Issues dealt with DN registration, trademarks, among others.

New TLDs

• Anne Troye Walker of the EC spoke on new TLDs and an implementation phase.

Initiatives for .EU

• Oliver Guillard presented.
• EURREG and EUROPOC
  

".AERO"

• ".AERO" has now an agreement with ICANN.
• It is a restricted registry whose applications must be verified and validated.

ICANN Update by Hertbert Vitzthum

• Talked on recent delegations/redelegations.
• New TLDs being considered.

Codes of Practice

• There are several countries looking into CoPs
• Belgium, the UK, Russia and Australia are among them.

CO-chair of the DNR Forum appointed: Jaap Akkerhuis

There were no questions.

Routing WG / Joao Luis Silva Damas.

Joao noted that the Working Group meeting happened on Tuesday, 15 January.
He shared his agenda:

• Preliminaries: (J5395 - RIPE)
• RIS Update (Henk Uijterwaal)
• New route collectors have been implemented.
• C. RRCC Project (Engin Gunduz)
• See website for more details on this project
• Internet Routing Table Analysis Update (Philip Smith)
• BGPDNS (Andre Opperman)
• Which addresses should name servers read and how to get from the server to the client; the project is going well.

The second slot was held on Wednesday.
It focused solely on RPSL language.

• RPSLng (Marc Blanchet, Florent Parent, David Kessens)
  - Expanding the RPSL to understand languages.
• Routing Working Group Actions
  - 37.R2 on RIS team; H. Uijterwaal.
• To implement route flap analysis from RIS data.
  - 39.R1 on J. Schmit, D. Kessesn, F. Parent.
• Initiate IPv6 IRR taskforce.
  - 40.r1 is still pending.
• Creating multihoming document for LIRs.

There were no questions.

Local Internet Registry Working Group / James Aldridge.

James Aldridge greeted the audience and proceeded with his summary.
The morning session was short.

• Reports were given by the RIPE NCC Hostmasters. There was an update report on the ripe-185 document.
• There was a short report from the ASO Address Council.
• In the afternoon session, Mirjam Kühne presented the interim IPv6 policy draft with lively discussions that followed.
• New actions to mention:
• Open discussion on /22 requirement for first allocation and multihoming
• Summarise IPv6 policy
• Request for participatation on mailing lists; makes the process easier for the RIPE NCC to document the /48 for IXPs policy.

Summary of IPv6 Policy Discussions:

• The current draft is moving in the right direction but needs more work.
• If consensus can be reached on the document soon, then work can start on a "final" version.
• The proposal to allocate a /32 to anyone who requests it was almost unanimously accepted. The request without criteria was accepted by those attending the Working Group.

Comment from Taksahi Arano regarding that a more relaxed policy is needed now.
He stated that there are many ways to relax the rules in the policy, and that the RIPE community, through its consensus, had supported the idea that any LIR may receive an allocation upon request.

James agreed that an alteration to Action 41.2 from the LIR Working Group will be made and that a more complete and accurate summary will be posted in his revised summary presentation on the web site and on the
"lir-wg" mailing list.

European Internet Exchange Forum (EIX) Working Group / Fearghas McKay.

• David Knight of the RIPE NCC was the scribe.
• There were 102 attendees; noticeably missing were American representatives.
• After the agenda bashing they appointed a chair and co-chair.
• The first presentation was the BCP update.
• A presentation of IPv6 allocation policy for xchange points followed.
• Next was the Switching Wish List.
• Then a report from Mike Hughes.
• Then an update and a report from the Cisco IXP event.
• The session ended with the Peering Card Exchange. Bill Manning put cards into a hat and made connections.
• IXP Presentations followed.
• 2 new from the Berlin Internet xchange and one from Finland.

Fearghas noted that, after the session, he was asked if they should continue the current status update reports.

• Expect feedback from the mailing list.
• Suggest limiting future presentations to two minutes.

Ethernet "Anything to Anywhere"

• Peter Maersk-Moller presented.

Euro-IX Update

• John Souter presented.
  

Peering Point Interconnection

• Report from Keith Mitchell; a thought provoking presentation.
• The paper he presented will be placed on his web site.
  See: http://www.xchangepoint.net/cgi-bin/iab/white_papers.pl

• T. Bechly presented.

There were no questions.

Anti-Spam Working Group / Rodney Tillotson.

Rodney presented his summary:

• There were 40 attendees.
• He stated appreciation to Jeroen Bet who acted as the Scribe.

Rodney proceeded with his summary on Spam or "UBE":

• Good to see that operators are applying port 25 outbound filtering.
• Open proxies are an important new discovery that the spammers/bulk mailers now use since there is no information in the "sent" area of where the Spam originated.
• MAPS may need some support. Suggested looking at that and investigate further.

• The Working Group felt it was interesting to hear how the California legislation is working in the U.S., although it may not apply in the RIPE NCC region.
• A short discussion on a product favoured by spammers called "formail.pl"
• Enables people to send mail from anywhere to anywhere.

Technical Measures

• "HashCash"
• A way of making it expensive to send mail that's unsolicited.
• Also important is interaction with various groups on anti-Spam efforts.
• This includes marketers, other ISPs, bulk mailers and RIRs.
• RIPE-206 needs more work.
• An anti-Spam group spotted that it is possible to extract the names and addresses of people on the anti-Spam lists and will work with the RIPE NCC to fix this.
• Need to build statistics on the paths of Spam.
• Need to determine how much money should be spent on fighting Spam; how to spend money on UBE if we had it?

Agenda for RIPE 42

• No tutorials
• Build support for MAPS
• Update documents

Q: Wilfried Woeber requested more information on the California legislation, i.e. what makes it unique?

A: If a person who is a California resident sends bulk mail, it is a criminal offence and they are fined per recipient and per message. "It seems to be quite an effective deterrent."

Chair commented that the spammers then simply move to a next-door state.

Rodney agreed that that has happened.

Q: From an audience member - Has anyone been convicted yet under this new law?

A: No one.

Comment from another audience member who, as a Californian, he welcomed the legislation since his Spam increases by 2 per day.

There were no further questions.

Domain Name System Working Group / Rudiger Volk.

Rudiger Volk presented his summary:

• The meeting took place in 2 slots.
• There were 86 attendees.
• Olaf Kolkman presented on the ICANN meeting targeting security after the Sept.11 events.
• Johan Ihren reported on IETF meetings with a focus on DNSSEC and DNSOPS, noting some unresolved issues on the DNSSEC side.
• Patrik Faltstrom reported on internationalisation of domain names.
• Patrik also spoke on ENUM technology, which included mapping and support of telephone numbers.
• Lynda McGinley reported on ISC developments and BIND roadmap.
• Bill Manning spoke to the current state of OTDR and the deployment of DNS records.
• Jaap Akkerhuis spoke about vulnerabilities in the Internet as compared against11 September and other events, and how such attacks can affect the infrastructure.
• Jaap pointed out that the Internet was not badly impacted by such events.
• NLnet and the RIPE NCC DNS announced authorised server and testbed projects, with a report by Daniel Karrenberg.
• The session closed with election of Jim Reid of Nominum as the new Chair of the DNS Working Group.
• Jim has helped in putting the Working Group session together.
• There were no outstanding action items in this Working Group.

There were no questions.

Database Working Group / Wilfred Woeber.

Wilfred proceeded with a summary report from the Database Working Group, beginning with administrative detail:

• There were 90 attendees.
• Nigel Titley took minutes.
• The draft minutes of the RIPE 41 Database Working Group are now on the mailing list and on the RIPE NCC web site.
• The agenda is also on the web.

• There was a presentation from the RIPE NCC at the session, available on the RIPE NCC web site.
• There was a summary presentation on IRT object implementation.
• There was a presentation from VeriSign on universal Whois.

Next steps:

• Work on documentation, such as the RIPE Database software documentation; an ongoing project overseen by the RIPE NCC.
• There has been a request to better support the user community, helping less experienced users of the Database. One proposal is to pull together a small editorial team to focus the problems and guide the document structure to be built with a difference between regular and casual users.
• There was another proposal to openly document the Database mirroring protocol.
• Work will proceed on an IRT: BCP.

Other issues:

• Need to increase facilities and security in the Database. This will allow better protection of objects.
• Also want to implement MD5.
• Try to get people to move away from "MailFrom."

• It was suggested to begin rating the importance of development issues. The plan is to issue a call on the Database mailing list; participants will be given a certain number of points to vote on issues that need more focus.
• Start a regular and automatic cleanup mechanism to target "useless" person objects in order to have a cleaner Database, which will also help in security issues.

There were no questions.

TechSec Working Group / Nigel Titley.

Nigel Titley presented a summary:

• There were 30 to 40 participants.
• There were 3 presentations.
• First was by Olaf Kolkman of the RIPE NCC on DNSSEC.
• Next by Yuir Demchenko of TERENA on TF-CSHIRT.
• Third was from Andrei Robachevsky of the RIPE NCC on IRT Object.
• There were discussions but mostly for clarification.

There were no questions.

Test Traffic Working Group / Henk Uijterwaal.

Henk Uijterwaal presented his summary:

• There were 30 attendees.
• Mark Santcroos took minutes.
• The Chair could not attend so Henk acted as co-chair.
• There were 4 presentations on the agenda on the various aspects of the TTM service.

Status & Plans

• IETF developments with a discussion on integrating measurements into network management systems.
• Analysis update.
• There are a number of new features to the TTM set-ups (numeric summary with colour codes; long term trends; and jitter implementation).
• Case studies have also been completed.

• A presentation on Bandwidth Measurements was presented by Marc Santcroos of the RIPE NCC. The results are now stable and credible and will be added to the TTM service.
• A joint report by the RIPE NCC and the T.U. Delft on the analysis of end-to-end delays in the Internet was presented. This gives a model of minimum delay between sites. There will be a paper on this at PAM2002.
• There will be an EOF session on "How to use measurements in daily ISP operations".
• There will also be a Netflow tutorial.

Topics for RIPE 42:

• Status from the NCC.
• New results from the data analysis.
• A volunteer from Juniper will also give a report.

There were no questions.

IPv6 Working Group / David Kessens.

David Kessens:

• There were 117 attendees.
• During the agenda bashing, the status of ipv6.int to ip6.arpa transition was added.
• The status of 6Bone was addressed.
• Developments and initiatives regarding IPV6 in the RIPE NCC region were presented.
• David noted the IPv6 summit in Madrid in March 2002.
• He also noted that the 6NET and EURO6ix projects are now approved.
• David requested the RIPE NCC to encourage the use of IPv6 name servers.
• There was an LIR Working Group session on IPv6 policy regarding allocation.

There were no questions.

14.) AOB

The Secret Working Group / Olaf Kolkman

A series of topical and humorous Limericks and photos followed.

15.) Closing

The next RIPE Meeting will take place in Amsterdam from 29 April - 3 May 2002. For more information, please see the RIPE NCC web site at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-42

The Chair thanked the sponsors of their contributions to the event:
Nominum, Inc.
.eu EUROPOC
Cisco Systems

The Chair thanked the RIPE NCC for all its support.