RIPE 38 Plenary Minutes

 RIPE 38
 Amsterdam, 22-26 January, 2001
 Plenary Session



 Chairman: Rob Blokzijl
 Scribe: Sylvana Wenderhold


  1. Opening and Welcome 

  2. Agenda

  3. Minutes RIPE 37

  4. From the Chair

  5. Report from the RIPE NCC (Axel Pawlik)

  6. DISI, a new project at the RIPE NCC

  7. Reports from APNIC (Paul Wilson) and ARIN (Ray Plzak)

  8. Report from LACNIC (German Valdez)

  9. Report from ASO/AC (Hans Petter Holen)

 10. Election of AC member

 11. AS Number Exhaustion (Scott Marcus)

 12. Report from ICANN (Andrew McLaughlin)

 13. Reports from the Working Groups

 14. Next Meetings
    - RIPE 39 Bologna 30 April - 4 May, 2001
    - RIPE 40 Prague 1 - 5 October, 2001

 15. AOB

 16. Closing 



	1. Opening and Welcome

Rob Blokzijl welcomed the attendees to the RIPE 38 meeting.


	2. Agenda

The RIPE meeting participants approved the agenda.

	
	3. Minutes RIPE 37

The minutes were approved.


	4. From the Chair


Rob did not have any general remarks.


	5. Report from the RIPE NCC (Axel Pawlik)

Please see the following URL for his presentation.
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html

RIPE NCC Status Report

There have been as few staff changes:
- John Crain has left RIPE NCC and joined ICANN. 
- Joao Damas has become Chief Technical Officer and is now responsible for
  the engineering groups: Database, Software and Operations 
  Department.
- Nurani Nimpuno, the Registration Services manger, reports directly to Axel. 
- Daniel Diaz has become the manager of the Operations Department. 
- Olaf Kolkman, has joined the New Projects Group as Scientific Programmer.

Registration Services

The waitqueue is down to a level that may be considered normal. The
week before the RIPE meeting the wait was four days and on the Monday
of the meeting it was five days. Over Christmas it did shoot up again,
but after the holidays it went right back down.

At the RIPE 37 meeting the RIPE NCC introduced an IP tutorial at the
end of the week. As it was well attended, it will take place again at
RIPE 38. Also back by popular demand is the Hostmaster Centre.

This year the RIPE NCC is planning to do 50 LIR training courses. We
have found several dedicated trainers within the RIPE NCC who are a
great addition to the existing training team.

The RIPE NCC has new staff in the Registration Services department.
Recruiting more employees to guard against a sudden rise of the
waitqueue will still continue.

There is still a steady growth in the number of LIRs. Most of the
growth is in Europe and Central Asia with nearly 800 new LIRs in
2000. The middle East had 30 and the African region had 8 new LIRs in
2000.

Address Space Usage

The RIPE NCC has allocated more address space over the last months
than in previous months. Even though this is not an immediate threat,
Axel explained that the RIPE NCC will closely monitor this.

Consumption Rates

There is quite an increase in consumption between 1999 and 2000. The
RIPE NCC has not found particular reasons for this increase. This will
be closely monitored by the RIPE NCC and co-ordinated with the other
RIRs.

IPv6 

There is activity, but it is still fairly slow. Germany and Sweden are
the most active to date. The RIPE NCC has allocated approximately
double the amount of IPv6 address space to commercial companies than
it has to academic organisations.

Achievements within Registration Services
- RIPE NCC is giving some direct attention to correctly filled out requests. 
- More responsibility is put on the LIRs to fill out the requests properly.
- The helpdesk, lir-help@ripe.net is used for general questions preventing 
these questions from being queued together with Internet resource requests.
- The RIPE NCC tools have been continually updated.
- The FAQ continues to be updated.
- The RIPE NCC has worked on a form that will succeed RIPE-141.

Our priorities are:
- to continue to increase the staff in the Registration Services department. 
This is to ensure that the waitqueue remains at an acceptable level.
- Build more tools to improve the service.

Database
Version 3.0 of the RIPE database will be launched in April 2001. The main 
change is the introduction of RPSL. 

New Projects

The Test Traffic Measurements service is now available to the entire
community.New hardware is easy to install. Axel expects substantial
growth in the number of boxes that are distributed. Brochures have
been designed and each attendee has received one in his/her package.

Routing Information Service
Currently two route collectors in operation. Two additional collectors are 
planned. Results and statistics are available at:

http://www.ripe.net/ris/ris-index.html


The PAM2001 workshop will be hosted in April 2001 in Amsterdam. 
Registration is open. 

In October, the general meeting of the RIPE NCC association was
held. The members approved the financial figures for 1999 and the
budget and activity plan for 2001. The RIPE NCC Executive board
remains unchanged as Frode Greisen was re-elected to the Board during
the AGM 2000.

Communications
-  50 training courses are planned for 2001
- Outreach activities / RIPE NCC awareness
- ENUM

ICANN ASO 
As the ASO secretariat function rotates among the RIRs, for the year 2001 the 
ASO secretariat will be located at the RIPE NCC. This includes the website, 
the hosting of the AC telephone conferences and general administrative tasks.

Co-ordination between RIRs
Axel welcomed staff from ARIN, LACNIC and APNIC.
A small retreat has been planned again this year. 

RIPE NCC short term goals:
- the migration to the new database
- adding resilience to Registration Services
- enlargement TTM network
- finalising contract with ICANN

RIPE NCC priorities:
 - Ensure and further improve stable, reliable and high quality services
 - Respond to members' needs and develop and propose services as needed
 - Further increase RIPE NCC and RIPE awareness


Questions: 

Christian Panigl: Do you have any statistics on how many LIRs have
left during the last years?
Axel: We will have more data during the next meeting. We want to focus
more on providing general statistics.


	6. DISI, a new project at the RIPE NCC 


Henk Uijterwaal gave a presentation on DISI. 
The slides can be found on:
www.ripe.net/disi

DISI stands for Deployment of Internet Security Infrastructures. 

What is the purpose of DISI:
- Security technologies need to be deployed in the Internet infrastructure 
and its operations.
- Some of those technologies need to be deployed in a co-ordinated way to be 
effective at all.

Goals:
- DISI will help to deploy existing security technologies within the RIPE NCC 
and its operations to the outside world (i.e. PGP and DNSsec)
- DISI will document deployment experiences of security technologies
- DISI will assist the RIPE community in deployment of security technologies
- DISI will co-ordinate deployment and operation of security technologies 
where necessary

We may set up training courses to help the community use these tools, not 
unlike the LIR training courses.

Initial focus:
- DNSsec 
- Deployment on the in-addr tree
- Deployment assistance
- Implementation of PGP in communication between hostmasters and LIRs: "PGP4HM"

- Public Key Infrastructure
- Implementation of PGP in communication with HMs and LIRs: PGP4HM
- Applicability of PKI in RIPE/RIPE NCC context

Progress so far:
-  RIPE 36 first ideas
- Summer 2000
- Hire Scientific Programmer to lead this effort
- Proposal in the Activity Plan 2001

Plans:
- April 2001: Draft Project Proposal
- May 2001/RIPE 39: BOF
- Securing the in-addr tree
- DNSsec implementation
- Public Key Infrastructure

- Finish PGP4HM Project
- RIPE document describing the implementation
- Applicability statement
- White paper on "how to use this in your organisation"

Contact Information
- Internal email alias: disi@ripe.net
- Webpage: http://www.ripe.net/disi
- Announcement on the RIPE list
   until there is a public mailing list
 

	7. Reports from APNIC (Paul Wilson) and ARIN (Ray Plzak)


Paul Wilson - APNIC

For a fully detailed report on APNIC, please visit:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html


Ray Plzak - ARIN

For a fully detailed report on ARIN, please visit:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html



	8. Report from LACNIC (German Valdez) 

For a fully detailed report on LACNIC, please visit:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html



	9. Report from ASO/AC (Wilfried Woeber)

For a fully detailed report on ASO/AC, please visit:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html


	10. Election of AC member

The term of Sabine Jaume expired in December 2000. The RIPE NCC issued a 
public Call for Nominations to fill the vacant seat on the Address Council.
There were three candidates nominated for the AC elections: Sabine Jaume, 
Khaled Moh'd Abu Mallouh and Francesco Ravanelli. Sabine was the only 
candidate in attendence. She introduced herself.

This is the result of the election:

Sabine Jaume - 147
Khaled Moh'd Abu Mallouh - 1
Francesco Ravanelli - 5
Blank votes - 2


	11. AS Number Exhaustion (Scott Marcus)

Please see the presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html


	12. Report from ICANN (Andrew McLaughlin)


Andrew introduced John Crain as the new Technical Manager at ICANN and 
provided a status update.

Questions:

Fay Howard - During the presentation from people proposing to run a new 
registry in Brussels recently, some of them mentioned they were making a 
voluntary reservation in the second level of two letter codes. Others said 
they were in negotiations with ICANN. Has ICANN got a policy on this issue?
Andrew - There are no hard and fast rules on this issue. 

Wilfried Woeber - We recently had to resolve the problem of duplicate names 
in the small backyard of a Local Registry. It is difficult to make those 
names unique. Does anybody have a good idea on how to solve this problem?
Andrew - You want to take a look at the .name proposal on the ICANN website.


	13. Reports from the Working Groups

Routing 
Chair: Joachim Schmitz
Scribe: Engin Gunduz
Attendees: 96

For the report of the routing working group, please see:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html

There were no questions.


Database 
Chair: Wilfried Woeber
Scribe: Nigel Titley
Attendees: 50

DB-SW version 3 implementation and migration to RPSL is going to affect all 
users.
Target date agreed: 23 April 2001 
(unless there is a well-documented reason to postpone the transition)

Current level of protection is preserved, the method might be different, 
though.
Question: Retire orphaned person:/role: objects?

Work Items:
- IRT object spec & last call 
- Globally unique handles -> target: ARIN meeting, April 2001
- Finish preparations for RPSL/version 3

Question from Wilfried to the audience: Do you support the idea to simply get 
rid of these useless objects?

There were no comments made.


CENTR / DNR
Chair: Fay Howard
Scribe: Kevin Meynell
Attendees: 48

For Fay's working group report, please see:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html

There were no questions.


LIR
Chair: Hans Petter Holen
Scribe: Roger Arcilla
Attendees: 102 

For Hans Petter's working group report, please see:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-38/index.html

There were no questions.


DNS
Chair: Ruediger Volk
Scribe: Lee Wilmot
Attendees: 81

There were no questions.


IPv6 
Chair: David Kessens
Scribe: Vesna 
Attendees: 134


There were no questions.


EIX
Report by Nic Lewis
Chair: Faerghas McKay
Scribe: Vanessa Evans
Attendees: 128

1. Switching wish list - Mike Hughes
A document detailing the features desired in switch equipment with particular 
regard to use in Internet Exchanges. Draft version should be available on 
EIX-WG mailing list next week. Comments invited


2. IXP BCP - Nic Lewis
A document to assist the IXP operators in running IXPs, and hence help ISPs 
wishing to connect to IXPs. It was noted that there are many aspects to this 
document, some of which may not fit as part of a BCP, and it was suggested 
that the work be documented and broken down into several BCPs, FYIs FAQs as 
appropriate.

ACTION: to circulate an initial breakdown of the document(s) on EIX-WG
Mailing list for discussion

Comments asked from the community as to whether this was valuable work since 
it was turning into a wider project than originally scoped. Community agreed 
that it was

3. IX Reports

- TIX - Andre Opperman
        Was Telehouse IX, now part of IXEurope

- VIX - Christian Panigl
ACTION: add multicast as an agenda item for net EIX-WG

- DE-CIX - Arnold Nipper

- AMS-IX - Job Witteman

- NIX-CZ - Josef Chomyn
        Welcome presentations from Eastern Europe
 
- SFINX - Franck Simon
        Two new pops finally up and running

- Netnod IX (formerly Stockholm D-GIX) - Lars-Johan Liman
        Described the FDDI/DPT architecture

- LONAP - Raza Rizvi
        First presentation at RIPE

- LINX - Mike Hughes

- XchangePoint - Keith Mitchell
        New IX roll out across EU

There were no questions


Anti spam
Chair: Rodney Tillotson
Scribe: Dave Wilson
Attendees: about 40

Europe is quite good about spam. Need to make some difference elsewhere.

Spamwhack http://www.spamwhack.com/
Track down spammers to individual people so that further action 
(i.e. lawsuits) could be taken if necessary. The service keeps anonymised 
checksum info on customer information provided on sign up.

Developments on spam
Little change

UUNET dialups the biggest source. China, Korea, Japan increasing.
Need active and relevant contacts in both places; will contact APNIC and some 
Far East CERTs, and UUNET's IRT.

Collateral spam. 
Actual user addresses being used as from: or Reply to: forged in spam.

Developments in spam
No news

Open Relay Products
Nothing has changed very much. Exchange 5.5 ships relaying, you have to apply 
SP2 and then secure for relay. RIPE-206 BCP specifies relationships with your 
customers to enforce anti-relaying. Almost superfluous in the RIPE community.
Discussion of open relay scanning and testing products, to be forwarded after 
meeting.

Advise
OPT-IN lists (work item) Advise for well-meaning bulk marketers, establishing 
what is good practice for direct mail. Will follow LINX BCP 
(coming soon; http://www.ja.net/mail/juk/save/lists.html is broadly similar).
Marketers are the key audience, but they have opt-OUT tradition.

Report spam
Very few people report every single piece of spam they get. SpamCop will help 
them but is not ideal. Some evidence that ISPs take reports more seriously if 
they come from another ISP's abuse address.

Response to spam reports
Usually you hear nothing from the remote ISP; this doesn't mean they've done 
nothing, but it's hard to encourage our customers. The major (US) ISPs could 
do forensic work tracking down abusive individuals and, perhaps, taking legal 
action.

Techical measures
Signed messages or headers - hard to deploy Hashbusters seen - spam with 
gibberish  characters on a line at the end or at the end of the subject line 
to try to beat checksum filtering.
Port 25 (587) blocking - most IPSs prefer not to do this. UUNET?
SMTP authentication - reported as not being difficult.
POP-before-SMTP also simple and valuable.
We should keep a list of contributed URLs on the RIPE NCC web as a central 
resource of email security.

Advice on reading mail headers (work item)
Ongoing; contributions still welcome.

What are we actually doing?

Should we describe the work of this group in more aggressive terms?
Europe is fixing a problem it hasn't got; we need a broader consensus,
including US ISPs. The other RIRs also need a platform to support this
kind of work in their meetings. Considering adapting RIPE-206 to make
it look more like a policy which we might encourage RIRs to
accept. Follow up on the list.

Might the RIPE NCC run its own RBL containing only RIPE addresses? Certainly 
not at this stage and probably not at all. However, it is a reminder of the 
second part of the WG charter, to produce a European mail abuse response 
centre.

There were no questions


Test Traffic
Chair: Keith Godber
Scribe: Rene Wilhelm
Attendees: 50

TT boxes production service
Since 10.10.00

46 boxes 
30 active
5 new boxes

The ease of setting up a test-box was demonstrated at RIPE 38 and only took 
34 minutes to set-up.

Future plans
 - Bandwith analysis
 - Trends

There were no questions.


Netnews
Chair: Dave Wilson
Scribe: Felix Kugler
Attendees: 30

NHNS (Daniel Diaz)
    
Daniel has submitted an Internet Draft about the NHNS system to the IETF. 
[1] is an individual publication and valid until April 2001. So far only one 
comment was received concerning the draft.

Setup of the public NHNS cloud:
     * primary nameserver for usenet.nhns.net hosted by Satec (ES)
     * secondary nameserver hosted by Dave Wilson, HeaNet (IE)
       
   All info about NHNS is available on [2]http://nh.nhns.net.
   
   Next steps:
     * move primary nameserver to a RIPE platform and restart the public
       pilot
     * rewrite some of the tools, especially the dynamic update script
     * update the Internet draft
     * strive towards an operational, stable service
       
    Flowmaps (Kai Siering)
    
   No progress since RIPE-37 meeting.
   
   The flowmaps software is available for download on
   [3]http://newsbone.uu.org/RIPE-38, example pictures can be found there
   as well.
   
   The tool requires "inpath"-like raw data collected on a news server.
   Visualisation is done using Cyclic software. Processing one day of
   data needs approx. 10 minutes on a modern Pentium hardware. Real time
   visualisation would require a dedicated, very fast machine.
   
   Visualisation features:
     * 3D-view of news flows around the target machine where the raw data
       was collected
     * zoom in/out
     * change viewpoint
     * nodes and links are clickable, small windows pop up showing
       details
       
It seems valuable to be able to visualise traffic volume instead of  the 
number of articles in future. Other suggestions and comments from test users
regarding new features are welcome.

References:

1. http://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/ftp/mirror/internet-drafts/draft-diaz-nhns

2. http://nh.nhns.net/

3. http://newsbone.uu.org/RIPE-38

There were no questions.


Tool BoF
Chair: Maldwyn Morris
Attendees: 92

1. Existing tools
- Net: :IP : Perl Library for the Manipulation of IPv4 and IPv6 Addresses 
(Manuel Valente, RIPE NCC)

 Look for Net: : IP on CPAN, or just go here:
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/M/MA/MANU/

A suggestion for added functionality was gratefully accepted, more comments 
are welcome at: swcontact@ripe.net

- AS Request Checking and the Hostmaster Mail Robot
(Timur Bakeyev, RIPE NCC)

- Asused Allocation Checks
 (Timur Bakeyev, RIPE NCC)
http://www.ripe.net/cgi-bin/webasused.pl.cgi

2. Tools in development
- Robo-Bijal
(Guy Vegoda, Level 3)
 Nice demonstration and explanation of a useful tool for IP address Management.

- RIPE DB version 3.0 and RPSL Migration 
(Andrei Robachevski, RIPE NCC)
 
Yes, you will be affected.
http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/rpsl/index.html

- Secure Web pages
(Maldwyn Morris, RIPE NCC)

Demonstration of plans for RIPE NCC Member-only web pages.

3. Proposal for tools

- Chair will bring up co-operative development of IP Address and Request 
Management Tool for LIRs in a mail on the lir-wg mailing list.
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/about/maillists.html

4. Survey
-Chair asked the attendees what they wanted from the BOF
    -Most seemed fairly happy with current level of presentations.
-Members are encouraged to try the tools, especially asused and stt.
They should all work on most modern, Unix-like OSes- bugs welcome at: 
swcontact@ripe.net

http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/mem-services/tools/index.html

There were no questions.

Rob suggested creating a new working group: Tools-WG.



	14. Next meetings
              - RIPE 39 Bologna 30 April - 4 May, 2001
              - RIPE 40 Prague 1 - 5 October, 2001

	15. AOB


Rob sincerely thanked the RIPE 38 sponsors:
Squire, Sanders and Dempsey / CentralNic
BandX Exchange 
Xchange Point
Carrier 1

	16. Meeting Close