36th RIPE Meeting
Plenary Session Minutes - Draft
36 RIPE Meeting Plenary Minutes - DRAFT
RIPE 36
Budapest, 16-19 May, 2000
Plenary Session
Chair: Rob Blokzijl
Scribe: Sylvana Wenderhold
1. Opening and welcome
2. Agenda
3. Minutes from RIPE 35
4. From the Chair
5. News from ICANN
- Mike Norris (MITF)
- Mike Roberts (President and CEO)
6. Reports from the RIPE NCC
7. Reports from:
- ARIN (Richard Jimmerson)
- APNIC (Paul Wilson)
- AfriNIC (Antony Brooks)
- LacNIC (German Valdez)
8. New developments in Transatlantic cable systems
(Daniele Bovio)
9. Reports from the Working Groups
10. Next RIPE meetings
11. AOB
12. Close
1. - Opening and welcome
RIPE Chair Rob Blokzijl welcomed the participants to the RIPE 36 meeting.
2. - The agenda
Agenda item 5 was shifted to a later time, as Mike Norris had not yet arrived.
3. - Minutes from RIPE 35
The minutes were approved.
4. - From the Chair
Rob thanked Matav and Matav net very much for providing the connectivity for
the meeting. He also thanked Elender for the computers supplied in the
terminal room.
The Chair urged participants to clearly state their names and use the
microphone when asking questions.
Louis Touton addressed the audience concerning the ICANN Independent Review
Panel Nominating Committee. This Nominating Committee consists of two
individuals appointed by the ICANN Address Council, along with two by the
ICANN Names Council and two by the ICANN Protocol Council. The Address
Council has been asked to identify its two appointments and is seeking
recommendations from the community.
The Nominating Committee to which appointments are being made is responsible
for nominating the members of the ICANN Independent Review Panel, which
addresses complaints from the community that ICANN is violating its bylaws,
etc. Members of the Independent Review Panel should be current or retired
judges, or people with the legal training to be judges. Since those serving
on the Independent Review Panel will not be compensated, the Nominating
Committee members appointed by the Address Council should be situated to
persuade well-qualified individuals to volunteer to serve on the Independent
Review Panel. Thus, ideal appointments to the Nominating Committee would be
those people who know judges. One important condition is that the people
appointed cannot be directly involved with the ICANN process (i.e. they cannot
be ICANN Directors, staff, or advisors, members of the Address Council, etc.).
5. - News from ICANN
- Mike Norris
Please see the slides of Mike's presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/mn-icann/
Mike Norris informed the audience about the ICANN At Large structure and the
ASO. The ASO is well represented with Hans Petter Holen, Wilfried Woeber and
Sabine Jaume from this region together with three members from the Americas
and three from the Asia Pacific region. Rob Blokzijl sits on the board of
ICANN itself. ICANN board elections are coming up in November.
Registration is open to anyone. Mike would like to see more people
register for the At Large membership.
For information about ICANN and the elections please visit:
http://www.icann-ineurope.org
- Mike Roberts (President and CEO)
Rob was proud to introduce Mike Roberts who was one of the highest
ICANN officials ever to visit a RIPE meeting.
Mike Roberts provided a few words of where ICANN is today and where it is
going. He explained that ICANN is a product of one of the Internet's many
scaling crises, in fact created as a result of the major success of the
Internet. He enlightened the audience with some background information about
how ICANN was established as a non-profit corporation independent from the US
government. It has become a very diversified organisation with an
international perspective. The goal is an independent ICANN with very little
government involvement.
Mike Roberts pointed out three difficult issues for ICANN at this time:
A. Manner in which new generic top level domain should be introduced. The
question is not should there be more, but under what circumstances and
conditions should there be more.
B. Revisions to RFC 1591 ICP 1. (Domain Name System Structure and Delegation)
This deals with the relationship between the US government and the top
level domain administrators.
These relationships need to be formalised.
C. Internet addressing should receive as much attention as the names issue
has received.
6. - Reports from the RIPE NCC
Axel Pawlik provided the RIPE NCC status report:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/ncc-report/sld0
02.html
His presentation focused on three main areas:
- Services
- Co-ordination
- RIPE NCC Priorities
Registration Services: The workload around the allocation of IPv4 addresses is
constantly increasing. Still there was good news; the wait queue is down to
five days from seven days.
IPv6: The revision of the policy document is still ongoing.
Membership: A milestone of 2000 members has been reached. The membership is
constantly increasing at a rate larger than expected.
New members per region 1999: Europe 258 (551), Middle East, 8 (31), Africa 3
(8)
Number of requests: This year the number of requests has not dropped under
1600 per month.
RIPE NCC Hostcount: It is beyond 11.000.000 after the first quarter of this
year.
RIPE Database: There was a problem with the database in March. It was down for
five hours. Updates were kept aside and handled later. There was a small
incident the day before the RIPE 36 plenary session. However, in the event
of such occurrences the spare server takes over, so these problems will go
unnoticed in the future.
Data protection: A lot of data is protected. PGP is the most secure
way to protect data, yet only two percent is protected using PGP. Axel
encouraged the members to start using PGP, particularly as it is offered for
free. At the next RIPE meeting there will be additional effort to promote
this mechanism.
Database reimplementation: The project is nearly finished. Currently we have a
server prototype. The RIPE NCC has set up a test database for users of the
RIPE database to send trial updates to.
External Communications:
- RIPE NCC Annual Report 1999
The 1999 Annual Report has been sent to members. Copies are available at
the RIPE NCC
- RIPE NCC awareness
RIPE NCC receives many invitations to give presentations and participate in
panels. The RIPE NCC has also been busy meeting with various new players
in the industry.
- New LIR course material successfully introduced
The first five courses taught with the new material have been very well
received.
Locations for upcoming LIR Training Courses (courses up to September will be
held in):
- Athens
- Prague
- Amsterdam
- Riyadh
- Madrid
- Geneva
- Paris
- Berlin
- Vienna
More information is available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/mem-services/training/index.html
New projects:
- Routing Information Service (RIS)
For more information, please see the following presentation:
http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/np/Talks/0005_RIPE36/sld001.html
- Test Traffic Measurements (TTM)
- Moving from an experimental project to a regular service
- Preparing roll out the next series of test-boxes
- Improving and adding components based on the TTM data
Regional Internet Registry (RIR) Co-ordination:
- RIR retreat
- Attended ARIN, APRICOT and AfriNIC meetings
Axel welcomed the various members of the other RIRs at the RIPE 36 meeting in
Budapest. He reported that the co-ordination between the RIRs has been very
successful so far.
RIRs have decided to split on a split of the total amount of the contribution
toward ICANN's first financial year that comes to an end at the end of
June 2000. (RIPE NCC: 50%, ARIN: 35%, APNIC, 25%)
The Address Supporting Organisation (ASO) general assembly meeting is
gathering for the first time after the RIPE meeting in Budapest on Friday, 19
May 2000. Axel invited the RIPE NCC membership to join the meeting.
RIPE NCC Priorities:
- Continuing to ensure and further improve stable, reliable and high quality
services
The wait queue is down. However, the RIPE NCC will continue to work towards
getting the queue down to a level that is acceptable to all members.
- Respond to members' needs and develop and propose services as needed
- Further increase RIPE NCC and RIPE awareness
Question from Christian Panigl: Why does the RIPE NCC fund 50% of the
ICANN-ASO budget intended for RIRs and ARIN only 35%?
Axel: This is the first year's split between the registries. We have looked at
the degree of establishment, budget and turnover. These numbers point to this
split.
Rob: The money comes from the RIPE NCC budget and has been approved by the
membership.
Axel introduces Joao Silva Damas who presented a proposal to revise
the RIPE document store. Most documents are fairly static and do not
require frequent updating. Some however, change frequently (policies
and procedures document, the request forms etc.). If they are
referenced in other documents and the document number changes, these
documents need to be updated as well. This requires a lot of work.
It would make it easier if the numbers would remain the same. Joao
proposes to have an option to freeze the number of certain documents
(the ones that change frequently).
After lively discussion it was decided to keep the system as it is and
review the RIPE NCC's internal procedures on document revision. Later
a detailed proposal will be presented to the RIPE community. Generally
there was agreement that more active use of the document titles rather
than its numbers would make referencing these documents easier.
7. - Reports from: (ARIN, APNIC, AfirNIC and LacNIC)
ARIN (Richard Jimmerson)
Please see the presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/arin-36/sld001.
html
Richard Jimmerson introduced himself as the Registration Services Manager at
ARIN.
Structure of ARIN:
- currently 1001 members
- six board of trustees members
- advisory committee of 15 members
- president
- executive assistant
- four divisions
1. registration services group
2. member services division
3. engineering division
4. administration division
ARIN currently has 23 staff members. ARIN activities are very much the same as
other RIRs.
Some highlights from the presentation:
- Fees revised for registration category level upgrades
ARIN no longer bills for upgrades. ARIN will now invoice the
organisation at the new registration category level on their next
anniversary date.
- Maximum allocation size increased to /13
A handful of organisations outgrew the /14. To meet their
requirements, the maximum allocation size has been increased to /13.
- Postal address for residential reassignments may be omitted
Individuals with a /29 or smaller still need to be listed in the
ARIN database, but instead of listing the postal address they now
use the ISP contact information.
- ARIN training soon to be offered
ARIN does not offer training, but will soon be offering training
within their region on a request basis.
One difference with the RIPE NCC is that ARIN issues address space based on an
organisation's three month needs instead of a one year need. They require
members to gives updates on their address space every three months. ARIN then
reserves address space for one year. If the organisation does not need this
space within one year, it will be allocated to another organisation.
ARIN has a registration services helpdesk and saw a 74% increase in the number
of phone calls received in the last year. The type of phone calls received are
from people who need help filling out templates, and have questions about
policies, guidelines and criteria.
ARIN has received 6 requests for IPv6 allocation. They have approved and
allocated 4 at this time.
ARIN priorities:
- Development of new tools to aid hostmasters in daily activities
- Developments of external training materials
- Increase level of customer service
ARIN staff visits many meetings and conferences to increase awareness about
their organisation.
Questions:
Jeroen Bet: How does ARIN ensure quality of customer services?
Richard: We looks at the quality of mail that has been sent out. We also
look at the performance of the individual hostmasters. Sometimes members are
approached to discuss any problems.
APNIC (Paul Wilson)
For a presentation about APNIC please see:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/
apnic-lir-wg/sld001.html
- APNIC staff has doubled in the last year. They have 16 staff at
present but will grow to 21.
- Almost doubled the membership. APNIC experienced a decrease growth
during the Asia crisis, but now records are broken monthly in
terms of membership growth.
- They have issued an equivalent /8 in the last 16 months of
operation. Allocation rate is picking up dramatically.
- Paul explained that they align their charging model to the number
of allocations to an organisation. This would naturally place
the organisations into the small/ medium/ large/ very large
categories.
APNIC in 2000.
- Software automation
- to support resource and allocation processes
- Customer support
- help desk and member care programme
- Documentation
- improved user interface
- on-line help with forms
- translation of core documents
Overall, all aspects of APNIC are clearly growing.
APNIC meeting will take place 25-27 October, 2000 in Brisbane, Australia.
APNIC welcomes all who are interested to participate in the APNIC meeting.
Questions:
Question: How many IPv6 allocation requests has APNIC received?
Paul: We have had 14 requests, and allocated 12 subTLAS so far.
Japan is very active in the IPv6 community. There has been a Chinese
request as well and we expect a lot more requests in the future.
AfriNIC (Antony Brooks)
Please see Ant's presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/
afrinic/sld001.html
In his presentation, Ant Brooks elaborated on the challenges AfriNIC is
facing. Despite a consensus in Africa about the establishment of AfriNIC, it
has been difficult to realise any concrete structure. 1999 was the year of
anti-progress. Among the reasons were the fact that they didn't have market
representation and none of the submissions for a host country was workable.
Particularly disastrous was the pull out of South Africa from the process, as
80% of the Internet activity is located in South Africa.
Another problem has been the language barrier. There has been some Francophone
and Anglophone tension in the region. This problem seems to have been solved
now as much attention is given to simultaneous translation in French and
English.
Gladly, in 2000 there has been a great deal of progress. A lot of effort has
been made to get South Africa involved once again. At the recent conference in
Cape Town, AfriNIC reached a breakthrough. There was both strong geographic
and market representation. The RIRs were all represented at the conference,
leading to a warm support of AfriNIC.
Where is AfriNIC today?
- Structure
Bylaws accepted by principle
Membership structure (voluntary)
Board of Trustees
Executive staff
Funding model (but without figures)
- Representation
Interim Board of Trustees accepted
ASO observer selected (Antony Brooks)
Two listeners chosen (Mouhamet Diop, Nii Quaynor)
- Working groups
BoT advisory committee
Policy working group
Antony pointed out that the only way AfriNIC would become a success is by
creating stability. He explained that large ISPs worry about the success of
AfriNIC specifically because they are concerned about the lack of stability as
a regional registry. Small ISPs on the other hand, worry about the minimum
allocations. Not many organisations need large allocations at this point
in time.
There is a propsal to have the initial AfriNIC staff be located at the RIPE
NCC premises. This would ensure the desired stability as it offers both
technical and financial solidity. The other RIRs strongly advise against
the suggestion ofmultiple locations for the office in Africa.
- Possible pit-falls
Lack of a clear path to the final goal
Financial viability
Taking Africans out of Africa (there are not enough skilled people in
the region)
http://www.afrinic.org
LacNIC (German Valdez)
Due to German's late arrival, this presentation did not take place. German
gave his presentation at the ASO meeting (Friday, 19 May 2000 in Budapest).
Please see the ASO Meeting minutes when they become available on:
http://www.aso.icann.org
8. - New developments in transatlantic cable systems
(Daniele Bovio)
Please see the presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/cables2k/sld001
.html
9. - Reports from the Working Groups
Database Working Group
----------------------
48 participants
Scribe: Nigel Titley
Chair: Wilfried Woeber
Wilfried will receive help from Nigel Titley and Ulf Kieber with the working
group in the future. Nigel will take care of the PR part of it and Ulf will
help co-ordinate the working group. The chair has received approval from the
working group on this issue.
Reports from RIPE NCC:
- Operational update
- Software re-implementation
Report form APNIC by Paul Wilson:
- CA activities, (ask for representation)
Results and actions:
- To work even more closely with CENTR to move the domain data to their own
database. Ask CENTR to present a progress report regularly.
- To arrange for a digital signature and certification course / workshop for
RIPE 37
- Activity plan for RIPE NCC in 2001
Input from other working groups is welcomed
EIX "exchange" object => propsosal invited
- Use of XML (for a common report template) => proposal invited
There were no questions.
IPv6 Working Group
------------------
75 participants
Scribe: Jeroen Bet
Chair: David Kessens
- A tutorial was given on Tuesday in addition to the regular working group
meeting. It was very well attended. Participants had a chance to try IPv6 demo
in terminal room. David reported on 6Bone developments.
Status of IPv6 Allocation Guideline draft
End-user assignments:
It is currently discussed on which boundary end-user assignmetns
should be made.
Action on David: Summarise pro/cons to the findings and discussions and
concerns brought forward to the list.
There were no questions.
LIR Working Group
-----------------
101 participants
Scribe: Eamonn McGuiness
Chair: Hans Petter Holen
Wait Queue
- Nurani and Joao presented substantial plans to improve the current situation
- The wait queue is now down to eight days
- The goal is to bring the queue down to two days
- In order to complement the internal process a Task Force was formed
comprised of members of the LIR WG.
This task force will gather comment from the community on:
- metrics such as the best possible delay
- broken parts in the current process and policies
- ways to improve communication flow
They will report back to the working group in a short and clear document and
deliver this to the RIPE NCC as input for the processes and policies review.
Pre RIR address space
- as a follow up question to the ARIN presentation the question on how to deal
with address space predating the RIRs was raised.
- The RIRs have a project to distribute the address space to the appropriate
registry.
Minimum allocation size
Consensus on changing policy to:
- The minimum allocation size will be /20
- Not before 01 August 2000
- Identify allocation size on RIPE address blocks and publish in
a machine readably format by 15 June 2000
Please see the following URL for Hans Petter's complete presentation:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/
lir-plenary/sld001.html
Hans Petter also provided a glance at the agenda of the upcoming LIR working
group in Amsterdam.
There were no questions.
Netnews Working Group
---------------------
13 participants
Scribe: Felix Kugler
Chair: Dave Wilson
Two excellent presentations were given:
Daniel Diaz (NHNS)
Kai Siering (Flowmaps)
The agenda for RIPE 37 will be very similar to the one for RIPE 36.
The actions are being worked on.
There were no questions.
Anti-Spam Working Group
-----------------------
Approximately 25 participants
Scribe: Maldwyn Morris
Chair: Rodney Tillotson
Update spam:
- I love you - not spam
- Greeting card spam
- Collateral spam
-Anti-spam ORBS discredited
-Legislation EC directives, some opt-ins
Codes of conduct - RIPE-206 well-received
-BCP on opt-in lists
-AUPs; new end users, different expectations
-ISPs support their customers
Technical Measure
-filtering products and services
Interaction with CERTS
-Advice on responses
-Reading mail (headers?)
Next agenda will be similar.
There were no questions.
DNR Working Group
------------------
Participants: ?
Scribe: Sharon Bush
Chair: Kevin Meynell (in absence of Fay Howard)
New members (now 30 + 2 associates)
- Croatia .hr
- Russia .ru
- Japan .jp (associate member)
ccTLD Funding of ICANN
- ccTLDs required to pay 35% of 99/00 budget ($1.49m)
- ICANN proposing 'domain name based split'
- CENTR Excom advocating fee bands - discussion ongoing
- Formalisation of relationship between ICANN/cc TLDs required
Kevin elaborated on some results from the DNSSEC working group meeting.
Common Registration Templates
- Supported by some (all?) registrars
- XML?
- CENTR collecting templates to determine commonalties
Neteka
- Developed as alternative to BIND
- Supports multi-lingual character sets
- Software for associated services (e.g. mail)
- http://www.neteka.com/.
Russian ccTLD
- operated by RosNIIROS
- Registration Policies
- Fees
DNR Forum Activities
Common Template Task Force
- Feasibility of common templates
- Format (e.g. XML)
Data Protection
- Examine zone file access
- Document uses (e.g. statistics, host count, searching)
- Work in conjunction with CENTR Legal Forum
For a complete presentation, please visit the following URL:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/dnr/sld001.html
New Chairperson
Two individuals have come forward to chair the next meeting. For now at least
it will be on a meeting by meeting basis. The two people are Hans Nicklasson
from Swip.net and Mally McLane from Planet Online. Sharon Bush from NetNames
has offered to be the Secretary for the next meeting.
Comment from Mike Roberts about the ICANN funding. He emphasised that ICANN
is not a governmental authority. The proposed ccTLD allocations are not a tax.
Kevin answered that the proposed model is not the way forward according to
many ccTLDs, specifically in CENTR.
Rob said he experienced a 'déjà vu' looking back at when the RIPE NCC
had just started. The outcome for the RIPE NCC is a mixture between the
two models.
There were no questions.
Routing Working Group
---------------------
70 participants
Scribe: Marek Bukowy
Tutor: Stefano Previdi (Cisco)
Chair: Joachim Schmitz
During RIPE 36 there was a Multicast Routing Tutorial with 30 participants.
Wilfried Woeber felt the tutorial was a big success.
ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/ipmulticast
The Routing working group was a bit shorter as usual, as some speeches had
been cancelled.
Update to RIPE-178 (C. Panigl)
Transition to RPSL (Andrei)
- close to finish reimplemention
- Phase II to start end of June
- Extensive testing - call for testers
- http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/reimp/index.html
RIS - Status and plans (A. Antony)
- http://www.ripe.net/ris
- test prototype available
- investigating issues around production
Actions
31.R1 on RIPE NCC, D. Kessens and J. Schmitz
Basic design for an IPv6 IRR
-postponed-
32R1 on RIPE NCC, JLS.Damas
Prepare draft document on issues of RIPE-181 to RPSL transition
- in progress -
34.R1 on C.Panigl
For RPSL assure mirror/whois capability with RADB
- new -
Draft Agenda RIPE 37
RPSL transition, phase III
RIS, BGP anomalies, ...
There were no questions.
EIX
---
52 participants
Scribe: Henk Uijterwaal
Chair: Fearghas McKay
IX reports
Sfinx
Amsix
Linx
Vix
Hamburg
RIPE Activity Plan
Database object for IXs
Peering contact attribute for AS
Allocated IP address range
BCP -for IX operations- Nic Lewis
Tools List
Peering tree decision paper
Switching wish list - Mike Hughes
EIX Ops list
Action Items:
Present proposal to DB working group
BCP - process underway
Tools - needs a co-ordinator
Wish list - process underway
Invited IX members to come and share their experiences.
Keith Mitchell noted that there are now work items within the working group.
We may need to revisit the charter as it says that there will be no work items.
There were no questions.
DNS Working Group
-----------------
98 participants
Scribe: Vesna Manojlovic
Chair: Ruediger Volk
David Conrad: BIND 9
Bill Manning: Whiter DNS ?
Preparing for DNS evolution
Stable specifications / stable code ensure feedback operational =>
Protocol designer communities
NL netlab/CENTR DNSSEC workshop
Paper on moving domain delegation
There were no questions.
Test Traffic Working Group
--------------------------
Approximately 30 participants
Scribe: Rene Wilhelm
Chair: Matthew Robinson
There was a presentation by Henk. The slides are available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/index.html
A paper should be produced about the test traffic project and a table of
contents will be available and sent to the mailing list soon.
The test traffic project is becoming self sufficient in terms of funding.
There is now a contest to produce a new logo and name (instead of ' I'm a
member of the test traffic project') for the test traffic web pages. Matthew
will present a prize to the winner at RIPE 37. More information about this can
be found in the Test Traffic WG meeting minutes when they become available.
There were no questions.
10. - Next RIPE meetings:
RIPE 37 Amsterdam 12-15 September, 2000
RIPE 38 Amsterdam 23-26 January, 2001
RIPE 39 Bologna May, 2001
Geza thanked the audience for coming to Budapest. He invited everyone to join
him on a walking tour of the city on Saturday.
11. - AOB
There was no other business to discuss.
12. - Close
Rob took the opportunity to thank the local hosts in Budapest, Geza
Turchanyi of Matav, Hungary and Balazs Martos chairman of Hungarian
Internet Providers' Council.
Rob thanked everyone for attending and hopes to meet all the participants
again at the next RIPE meeting in Amsterdam on 12-15 September, 2000.
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