Draft Plenary Minutes RIPE 36

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Dear Colleagues,


[ Apologies for duplicate mails ]


Please find below the RIPE 36 draft plenary minutes. The draft
plenary minutes are also available on our website at:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/plenary-minutes.html


Kind regards,
Sylvana Wenderhold


---------


36 RIPE Meeting Plenary Minutes - DRAFT



			RIPE 36
		Budapest,  16-19  May, 2000
		     Plenary Session



Chair: Rob Blokzijl 
Scribe: Sylvana Wenderhold


1. Opening and welcome

2. Agenda

3. Minutes from RIPE 35

4. From the Chair

5. News from ICANN

	- Mike Norris (MITF)
	- Mike Roberts (President and CEO)

 6. Reports from the RIPE NCC

7.  Reports from:

	- ARIN (Richard Jimmerson)
	- APNIC (Paul Wilson)
	- AfriNIC (Antony Brooks)
	- LacNIC (German Valdez)

8. New developments in Transatlantic cable systems
   (Daniele Bovio)

9.  Reports from the Working Groups

10.  Next RIPE meetings

11. AOB

12. Close





1. - Opening and welcome

RIPE Chair Rob Blokzijl welcomed the participants to the RIPE 36
meeting.

2. - The agenda

Agenda item 5 was shifted to a later time, as Mike Norris had
not yet arrived.

3. - Minutes from RIPE 35
 	
The minutes were approved.

4. - From the Chair

Rob thanked Matav and Matav net very much for providing the
connectivity for the meeting. He also thanked Elender for the
computers supplied in the terminal room.

The Chair urged participants to clearly state their names and
use the microphone when asking questions.


Louis Touton addressed the audience concerning the ICANN
Independent Review Panel Nominating Committee.  This Nominating
Committee consists of two individuals appointed by the ICANN
Address Council, along with two by the ICANN Names Council and
two by the ICANN Protocol Council.  The Address Council has been
asked to identify its two appointments and is seeking
recommendations from the community.

The Nominating Committee to which appointments are being made is
responsible for nominating the members of the ICANN Independent
Review Panel, which addresses complaints from the community that
ICANN is violating its bylaws, etc.  Members of the Independent
Review Panel should be current or retired judges, or people with
the legal training to be judges.  Since those serving on the
Independent Review Panel will not be compensated, the Nominating
Committee members appointed by the Address Council should be
situated to persuade well-qualified individuals to volunteer to
serve on the Independent Review Panel.  Thus, ideal appointments
to the Nominating Committee would be those people who know
judges.  One important condition is that the people appointed
cannot be directly involved with the ICANN process (i.e. they
cannot be ICANN Directors, staff, or advisors, members of the
Address Council, etc.).

  
5. - News from ICANN

	- Mike Norris 

Please see the slides of Mike Norris's presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

Mike Norris informed the audience about the ICANN At Large
structure and the ASO. The ASO is well represented with Hans
Petter Holen, Wilfried Woeber and Sabine Jaume from this region
together with three members from the Americas and three from the
Asia Pacific region. Rob Blokzijl sits on the board of ICANN
itself. ICANN board elections are coming up in November.  
Registration is open to anyone. Mike would like to see more
people register for the At Large membership.

For information about ICANN and the elections please visit:
http://www.icann-ineurope.org

 
	- Mike Roberts (President and CEO)

Rob was proud to introduce Mike Roberts who was one of the highest 
ICANN officials ever to visit a RIPE meeting.

Mike Roberts provided a few words of where ICANN is today and
where it is going. He explained that ICANN is a product of one
of the Internet's many scaling crises, in fact created as a
result of the major success of the Internet. He enlightened the
audience with some background information about how ICANN was
established as a non-profit corporation independent from the US
government. It has become a very diversified organisation with
an international perspective. The goal is an independent ICANN
with very little government involvement.

Mike Roberts pointed out three difficult issues for ICANN at
this time:

A. Manner in which new generic top level domain should be
introduced. The question is not should there be more, but under
what circumstances and conditions should there be more.
 
B. Revisions to RFC 1591 ICP 1. (Domain Name System Structure
and Delegation)  This deals with the relationship between the US
government and the top level domain administrators. These
relationships need to be formalised.

C.  Internet addressing should receive as much attention as the
names issue has received.
 

6. - Reports from the RIPE NCC

Axel Pawlik provided the RIPE NCC status report:

http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

His presentation focused on three main areas: 

	- Services
	- Co-ordination
	- RIPE NCC Priorities

Registration Services: The workload around the allocation of
IPv4 addresses is constantly increasing. Still there was good
news; the wait queue is down to five days from seven days.

IPv6: The revision of the policy document is still ongoing. 

Membership: A milestone of 2000 members has been reached. The
membership is constantly increasing at a rate larger than
expected.

New members per region 1999: Europe 258 (551), Middle East, 8
(31), Africa 3 (8)

Number of requests: This year the number of requests has not
dropped under 1600 per month.

RIPE NCC Hostcount: It is beyond 11.000.000 after the first
quarter of this year.

RIPE Database: There was a problem with the database in March.
It was down for five hours. Updates were kept aside and handled
later. There was a small incident the day before the RIPE 36
plenary session. However, in the event of such occurrences the
spare server takes over, so these problems will go unnoticed in
the future.

Data protection: A lot of data is protected. PGP is the most
secure way to protect data, yet only two percent is protected
using PGP. Axel encouraged the members to start using PGP,
particularly as it is offered for free. At the next RIPE meeting
there will be additional effort to promote this mechanism.

Database reimplementation: The project is nearly finished.
Currently we have a server prototype. The RIPE NCC has set up a
test database for users of the RIPE database to send trial
updates to.

External Communications:

- RIPE NCC Annual Report 1999 
The 1999 Annual Report has been sent to members. Copies are
available at the RIPE NCC ncc@localhost

- RIPE NCC awareness 
RIPE NCC receives many invitations to give
presentations and participate in panels. The RIPE NCC has also
been busy meeting with various new players in the industry.

- New LIR course material successfully introduced 
The first five courses taught with the new material have been
very well received.

Locations for upcoming LIR Training Courses (courses up to
September will be held in):

- Athens           
- Prague
- Amsterdam     
- Riyadh
- Madrid          
- Geneva
- Paris            
- Berlin
- Vienna

More information is available at: 
http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/mem-services/training/index.html

New projects:

- Routing Information Service (RIS)

For more information, please see the following presentation:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

- Test Traffic Measurements  (TTM)

   - Moving from an experimental project to a regular service
   - Preparing roll out the next series of  test-boxes
   - Improving and adding components based on the TTM data


Regional Internet Registry (RIR) Co-ordination:  

- RIR retreat
- Attended ARIN, APRICOT and AfriNIC meetings

Axel welcomed the various members of the other RIRs at the RIPE
36 meeting in Budapest. He reported that the co-ordination
between the RIRs has been very successful so far.

RIRs have decided to split on a split of the total amount of the
contribution toward ICANN's first financial year that comes to
an end at the end of June 2000. (RIPE NCC: 50%, ARIN: 35%,
APNIC, 25%)

The Address Supporting Organisation (ASO) general assembly
meeting is gathering for the first time after the RIPE meeting
in Budapest on Friday, 19 May 2000. Axel invited the RIPE NCC
membership to join the meeting.

RIPE NCC Priorities: 

- Continuing to ensure and further improve stable, reliable and
high quality services

The wait queue is down. However, the RIPE NCC will continue to
work towards getting the queue down to a level that is
acceptable to all members.

- Respond to members' needs and develop and propose services as
needed

- Further increase RIPE NCC and RIPE awareness


Question from Christian Panigl: Why does the RIPE NCC fund 50%
of the ICANN-ASO budget intended for RIRs and ARIN only 35%?

Axel: This is the first year's split between the registries. We
have looked at the degree of establishment, budget and turnover.
These numbers point to this split.

Rob: The money comes from the RIPE NCC budget and has been
approved by the membership.


Axel introduces Joao Silva Damas who presented a proposal to
revise the RIPE document store. Most documents are fairly static
and do not require frequent updating. Some however, change
frequently (policies and procedures document, the request forms
etc.). If they are referenced in other documents and the
document number changes, these documents need to be updated as
well. This requires a lot of work.

It would make it easier if the numbers would remain the same.
Joao proposes to have an option to freeze the number of certain
documents (the ones that change frequently).

After lively discussion it was decided to keep the system as it
is and review the RIPE NCC's internal procedures on document
revision. Later a detailed proposal will be presented to the
RIPE community. Generally there was agreement that more active
use of the document titles rather than its numbers would make
referencing these documents easier.


7. - Reports from: (ARIN, APNIC, AfirNIC and LacNIC)

ARIN (Richard Jimmerson)  

Please see the presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

Richard Jimmerson introduced himself as the Registration
Services Manager at ARIN.

Structure of ARIN:
- currently 1001 members
- six board of trustees members
- advisory committee of 15 members
- president 
- executive assistant 
- four divisions
	1. registration services group 
	2. member services division
	3. engineering division
	4. administration division

ARIN currently has 23 staff members. ARIN activities are very
much the same as other RIRs.

Some highlights from the presentation:
     
- Fees revised for registration category level upgrades
ARIN no longer bills for upgrades. ARIN will now
invoice the organisation at the new registration category level
on their next anniversary date.

- Maximum allocation size increased to /13 
A handful of organisations outgrew the /14. 
To meet their requirements, the maximum allocation size has been
increased to /13.

- Postal address for residential reassignments may be omitted 
Individuals with a /29 or smaller still need to be listed in the 
ARIN database, but instead of listing the postal address they now 
use the ISP contact information.

- ARIN training soon to be offered
ARIN does not offer training, but will soon be offering training 
within their region on a request basis.

One difference with the RIPE NCC is that ARIN issues address
space based on an organisation's three month needs instead of a
one year need. They require members to gives updates on their
address space every three months. ARIN then reserves address
space for one year. If the organisation does not need this space
within one year, it will be allocated to another organisation.

ARIN has a registration services helpdesk and saw a 74% increase
in the number of phone calls received in the last year. The type
of phone calls received are from people who need help filling
out templates, and have questions about policies, guidelines and
criteria.

ARIN has received 6 requests for IPv6 allocation. They have
approved and allocated 4 at this time.

ARIN priorities:

- Development of new tools to aid hostmasters in daily activities
- Developments of external training materials
- Increase level of customer service

ARIN staff visits many meetings and conferences to increase
awareness about their organisation.

Questions:

Jeroen Bet: How does ARIN ensure quality of customer services?

Richard: We looks at the quality of mail that has been sent out.
We also look at the performance of the individual hostmasters.
Sometimes members are approached to discuss any problems.


APNIC (Paul Wilson)

For a presentation about APNIC please see:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

- APNIC staff has doubled in the last year. They have 16 staff
at present but will grow to 21.

- Almost doubled the membership. APNIC experienced a decrease
growth during the Asia crisis, but now records are broken
monthly in terms of membership growth.

- They have issued an equivalent /8 in the last 16 months of
operation. Allocation rate is picking up dramatically.


- Paul explained that they align their charging model to the
number of allocations to an organisation. This would naturally
place the organisations into the small/ medium/ large/ very
large categories.


APNIC in 2000. 

- Software automation
      - to support resource and allocation processes
- Customer support
      - help desk and member care programme
- Documentation
	- improved user interface
	- on-line help with forms
	- translation of core documents


Overall, all aspects of APNIC are clearly growing.

APNIC meeting will take place 25-27 October, 2000 in Brisbane,
Australia.  APNIC welcomes all who are interested to participate
in the APNIC meeting.

Questions:

Question: How many IPv6 allocation requests has APNIC received?

Paul: We have had 14 requests, and allocated 12 subTLAS so far.  
Japan is very active in the IPv6 community. There has been a
Chinese request as well and we expect a lot more requests in the
future.


AfriNIC (Antony Brooks)

Please see Ant's presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

In his presentation, Ant Brooks elaborated on the challenges
AfriNIC is facing. Despite a consensus in Africa about the
establishment of AfriNIC, it has been difficult to realise any
concrete structure. 1999 was the year of anti-progress. Among
the reasons were the fact that they didn't have market
representation and none of the submissions for a host country
was workable.  Particularly disastrous was the pull out of South
Africa from the process, as 80% of the Internet activity is
located in South Africa.

Another problem has been the language barrier. There has been
some Francophone and Anglophone tension in the region. This
problem seems to have been solved now as much attention is given
to simultaneous translation in French and English.

Gladly, in 2000 there has been a great deal of progress. A lot
of effort has been made to get South Africa involved once again.
At the recent conference in Cape Town, AfriNIC reached a
breakthrough. There was both strong geographic and market
representation. The RIRs were all represented at the conference,
leading to a warm support of AfriNIC.

Where is AfriNIC today?

- Structure
	Bylaws accepted by principle
	Membership structure (voluntary)
	Board of Trustees
	Executive staff
	Funding model (but without figures)

- Representation
	Interim Board of Trustees accepted
	ASO observer selected (Antony Brooks)
	Two listeners chosen (Mouhamet Diop, Nii Quaynor)

- Working groups
	BoT advisory committee
	Policy working group


Antony pointed out that the only way AfriNIC would become a
success is by creating stability. He explained that large ISPs
worry about the success of AfriNIC specifically because they are
concerned about the lack of stability as a regional registry.
Small ISPs on the other hand, worry about the minimum
allocations. Not many organisations need large allocations at
this point in time.

There is a propsal to have the initial AfriNIC staff be located
at the RIPE NCC premises. This would ensure the desired
stability as it offers both technical and financial solidity.
The other RIRs strongly advise against the suggestion ofmultiple
locations for the office in Africa.

- Possible pit-falls
	Lack of a clear path to the final goal
	Financial viability
	Taking Africans out of Africa (there are not enough
        skilled people in the region)

http://www.afrinic.org


LacNIC (German Valdez)

Due to German's late arrival, this presentation did not take
place. German gave his presentation at the ASO meeting (Friday,
19 May 2000 in Budapest).  Please see the ASO Meeting minutes
when they become available on:

http://www.aso.icann.org 

8. - New developments in transatlantic cable systems
 (Daniele Bovio)

Please see the presentation at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/


9. - Reports from the Working Groups


Database Working Group
----------------------

48 participants
Scribe: Nigel Titley
Chair: Wilfried Woeber

Wilfried will receive help from Nigel Titley and Ulf Kieber with
the working group in the future. Nigel will take care of the PR
part of it and Ulf will help co-ordinate the working group. The
chair has received approval from the working group on this
issue.

Reports from RIPE NCC:
- Operational update 
- Software re-implementation

Report form APNIC by Paul Wilson:
- CA activities, (ask for representation)

Results and actions:

- To work even more closely with CENTR to move the domain data
to their own database. Ask CENTR to present a progress report
regularly.

- To arrange for a digital signature and certification course
workshop for RIPE 37

- Activity plan for RIPE NCC in 2001
Input from other working groups is welcomed

EIX "exchange" object => propsosal invited

- Use of XML (for a common report template) => proposal invited

There were no questions.


IPv6 Working Group 
------------------

75 participants
Scribe: Jeroen Bet
Chair: David Kessens

- A tutorial was given on Tuesday in addition to the regular
working group meeting. It was very well attended. Participants
had a chance to try IPv6 demo in terminal room. David reported
on 6Bone developments.

Status of IPv6 Allocation Guideline draft
End-user assignments:

It is currently discussed on which boundary end-user assignments
should be made.

Action on David: Summarise pro/cons to the findings and
discussions and concerns brought forward to the list.

There were no questions.


LIR Working Group
-----------------

101 participants
Scribe: Eamonn McGuiness
Chair: Hans Petter Holen

Wait Queue 
- Nurani and Joao presented substantial plans to
improve the current situation 
- The wait queue is now down to eight days 
- The goal is to bring the queue down to two days 
- In order to complement the internal process a Task 
Force was formed comprised of members of the LIR WG.

This task force will gather comment from the community on:
- metrics such as the best possible delay
- broken parts in the current process and policies
- ways to improve communication flow

They will report back to the working group in a short and clear
document and deliver this to the RIPE NCC as input for the
processes and policies review.

Pre RIR address space
- as a follow up question to the ARIN presentation the 
question on how to deal with address space predating the 
RIRs was raised.
- The RIRs have a project to distribute the address space 
to the appropriate registry.

Minimum allocation size Consensus on changing policy to: 
- The minimum allocation size will be /20 
- Not before 01 August 2000
- Identify allocation size on RIPE address blocks and
publish in a machine readably format by 15 June 2000

Please see the following URL for Hans Petter's complete
presentation:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

Hans Petter also provided a glance at the agenda of the upcoming
LIR working group in Amsterdam.

There were no questions.


Netnews Working Group
---------------------

13 participants
Scribe: Felix Kugler
Chair: Dave Wilson

Two excellent presentations were given:
Daniel Diaz (NHNS)
Kai Siering (Flowmaps)

The agenda for RIPE 37 will be very similar to the one for RIPE
36. The actions are being worked on.

There were no questions.


Anti-Spam Working Group
-----------------------

Approximately 25 participants
Scribe: Maldwyn Morris
Chair: Rodney Tillotson 

Update spam:
- I love you - not spam
- Greeting card spam
- Collateral spam

-Anti-spam ORBS discredited
-Legislation EC directives, some opt-ins

Codes of conduct - RIPE-206 well-received
	-BCP on opt-in lists
        -AUPs; new end users, different expectations
	-ISPs support their customers 

Technical Measure	
-filtering products and services

Interaction with CERTS
	-Advice on responses
	-Reading mail (headers?)

Next agenda will be similar.

There were no questions.


DNR Working Group
------------------

Participants: ?
Scribe: Sharon Bush
Chair: Kevin Meynell (in absence of Fay Howard)

New members (now 30 + 2 associates)
- Croatia .hr
- Russia .ru
- Japan .jp (associate member)

ccTLD Funding of ICANN
- ccTLDs required to pay 35% of 99/00 budget ($1.49m)
- ICANN proposing 'domain name based split'
- CENTR Excom advocating fee bands - discussion ongoing
- Formalisation of relationship between ICANN/cc TLDs 
required

Kevin elaborated on some results from the DNSSEC working group
meeting.

Common Registration Templates
- Supported by some (all?) registrars
- XML?
- CENTR collecting templates to determine commonalties

Neteka
- Developed as alternative to BIND
- Supports multi-lingual character sets
- Software for associated services (e.g. mail)
- http://www.neteka.com/.

Russian ccTLD
- operated by RosNIIROS
- Registration Policies
- Fees

DNR Forum Activities

Common Template Task Force
- Feasibility of common templates
- Format (e.g. XML)

Data Protection
- Examine zone file access
- Document uses (e.g. statistics, host count, searching)
- Work in conjunction with CENTR Legal Forum

For a complete presentation, please visit the following URL:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

New Chairperson

Two individuals have come forward to chair the next meeting. For
now at least it will be on a meeting by meeting basis. The two
people are Hans Nicklasson from Swip.net and Mally McLane from
Planet Online. Sharon Bush from NetNames has offered to be the
Secretary for the next meeting.

Comment from Mike Roberts about the ICANN funding. He emphasised
that ICANN is not a governmental authority. The proposed ccTLD
allocations are not a tax.

Kevin answered that the proposed model is not the way forward
according to many ccTLDs, specifically in CENTR.

Rob said he experienced a 'déjà vu' looking back at when the
RIPE NCC had just started. The outcome for the RIPE NCC is a
mixture between the two models.

There were no questions.


Routing Working Group
---------------------

70 participants
Scribe: Marek Bukowy
Tutor: Stefano Previdi (Cisco)
Chair: Joachim Schmitz

During RIPE 36 there was a Multicast Routing Tutorial with 30
participants. Wilfried Woeber felt the tutorial was a big
success.  
ftp://ftpeng.cisco.com/ipmulticast


The Routing working group was a bit shorter as usual, as some
speeches had been cancelled.

Update to RIPE-178 (C. Panigl)

Transition to RPSL (Andrei) 
- close to finish reimplemention 
- Phase II to start end of June 
- Extensive testing 
- call for testers

http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/reimp/index.html


RIS - Status and plans (A. Antony)
- http://www.ripe.net/ris
- test prototype available
- investigating issues around production

Actions

31.R1 on RIPE NCC, D. Kessens and J. Schmitz

	Basic design for an IPv6 IRR
	-postponed-

32R1 on RIPE NCC, JLS.Damas

Prepare draft document on issues of RIPE-181 to RPSL transition
        - in progress -

34.R1 on C.Panigl

For RPSL assure mirror/whois capability with RADB
	- new -


Draft Agenda RIPE 37

RPSL transition, phase III
RIS, BGP anomalies, ...

There were no questions.


EIX  
---

52 participants
Scribe: Henk Uijterwaal
Chair: Fearghas McKay

IX reports
	Sfinx
	Amsix
	Linx
	Vix
	Hamburg
	
RIPE Activity Plan
	Database object for IXs
	Peering contact attribute for AS
	Allocated IP address range
	BCP -for IX operations- Nic Lewis
	Tools List

Peering tree decision paper

Switching wish list - Mike Hughes

EIX Ops list

Action Items:
	Present proposal to DB working group
	BCP - process underway
	Tools - needs a co-ordinator
	Wish list - process underway

Invited IX members to come and share their experiences.

Keith Mitchell noted that there are now work items within the
working group.  We may need to revisit the charter as it says
that there will be no work items. 

 There were no questions.


DNS Working Group
-----------------

98 participants
Scribe: Vesna Manojlovic
Chair: Ruediger Volk

David Conrad: BIND 9

Bill Manning: Whiter DNS ?
Preparing for DNS evolution

Stable specifications / stable code ensure feedback operational
=> Protocol designer communities

NL netlab/CENTR DNSSEC workshop

Paper on moving domain delegation

There were no questions.


Test Traffic Working Group
--------------------------

Approximately 30 participants
Scribe: Rene Wilhelm
Chair: Matthew Robinson

There was a presentation by Henk. The slides are available at:
http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-36/presentations/

A paper should be produced about the test traffic project and a
table of contents will be available and sent to the mailing list
soon.

The test traffic project is becoming self sufficient in terms of
funding.

There is now a contest to produce a new logo and name (instead
of ' I'm a member of the test traffic project') for the test
traffic web pages. Matthew will present a prize to the winner at
RIPE 37. More information about this can be found in the Test
Traffic WG meeting minutes when they become available.

There were no questions.


10.  - Next RIPE meetings:

RIPE 37 Amsterdam 12-15 September, 2000
RIPE 38 Amsterdam 23-26 January, 2001
RIPE 39 Bologna May, 2001

Geza thanked the audience for coming to Budapest. He invited
everyone to join him on a walking tour of the city on Saturday.

11.  - AOB

There was no other business to discuss.

12.  - Close 

Rob took the opportunity between the working group reports to
thank the local hosts in Budapest Geza Turchanyi and Balasz
Martos of Matav, Hungary.

Rob thanked everyone for attending and hopes to meet all the
participants again at the next RIPE meeting in Amsterdam on
12-15 September, 2000.