Re: Very fast IP, no ATM...

[Peter Lothberg <]

> Peter Lothberg writes:
>  > 
>  > I don't undertsand, if ATM did create bandwith it would be great, but
>  > it does not. If ATM was needed to make packets move it would be great,
>  > but it's not.
> 
> One issue on the above is that the ATM pipes have the history of going
> a step faster than the wide area IP pipes at the same time. Like we're
> now at STM4 for ATM and at STM1 for IP. Though this does not help too
> much with the current routing gear, but at least you can feed your
> backbone with a stack of STM1 ATM interfaces and actually move bits at
> aggregate rates that go STM4 if not faster (I can put multiple STM4
> pipes in parallel in the backbone).

1. You need routers in and out of your cloud if your service is IP.

STM-4 (packets) as router interfaces will be availiable when needed.

>  > It seems to be usable as aa replacement for X.25 and Frame-Relay, for
>  > those who buy bandwith and routers and build private networks, but,
>  > for a public infrastructure, I don't think so.
>  >
> A close look at the Internet market shows a large set of products
> aimed, in a way or another, for 'secure transmission of data over the
> Internet'. Either terminal-connections, like SSH, or VPN's. I see that
> as a clear demand for VPN services, at least for the area where
> bandwidth is inexpensive and plenty. Like in our case in Finland and
> Sweden. It does not take that much our of your pocket to pay the cell
> tax if the amount you start from is not large. (remember this when you
> fill in your tax forms, the "best way" to save in taxes is to earn
> less :-)

Cell-tax chart.

                                   POSIP                           ATM
 ether    ip      MAX      POSIP    SPE     MAX   cells    ATM     SPE
 size    size    POSIP    goodput   eff     ATM    per   goodput   eff
(Bytes) (Bytes)   pps     (MB/sec)  (%)     pps   packet (MB/sec)  (%)
------  ------  ------- ----------  ----  ------- ----  ---------- ----
   64       46   353,207  16.2475  86.79  176,603   2     8.1237  43.39
  128      110   160,000  17.6000  94.02  117,735   3    12.9509  69.18
  256      238    76,408  18.1851  97.14   58,867   6    14.0103  74.84
  512      494    37,365  18.4583  98.60   32,109  11    15.8618  84.73
 1024     1006    18,479  18.5899  99.30   16,054  22    16.1503  86.27  
 1518     1500    12,422  18.6330  99.54   11,037  32    16.5555  88.44
(2048)    2030     9,189  18.6537  99.65    8,214  43    16.6744  89.07
(4352)    4334     4,312  18.6882  99.83    3,881  91    16.8202  89.85
(4488)    4470     4,181  18.6890  99.83    3,757  94    16.7938  89.71


Remember thaat long-haul bandwidth is a very scarse resource att the 
rate it will be consumed.

>  > As the service deleiverd at the endpoint is IP, we need to
>  > interconnect the various parts of IP moving clouds, so we will have to
>  > have IP-switches (called routers) that go damn fast anyway.
>  >
> Definetly we do. The problem here is that we're a generation away from
> routers that would go STM4. And maybe generation and half away from
> routers that would maintain fairness and maybe even QoS across them at
> the same time they go STM4 on a dozen interfaces.

Go read the latest issues of the trade-press like communications week.

>  > So, explain what's the problem here, I just demostrated that you can
>  > run production IP traffic at 155Mbit without making a detour through
>  > an ATM switch. 
>  >
> Where the current POS pipe is, is a perfect place for 'ATM-less'
> circuit. When you say that you're going to do the next circuit
> locally, that makes me wonder of the benefits. If you would run the
> STM4 halfway across the globe, I would understand the benefits of
> being free of cell tax.

It will take until 1998 before there will be cablesystsems along the
path that can give me a oc12c/stm-4, but we will have inside Sweden.

>  > It has been more stable than any other international circiut we have,
>  > and the 'new' technology works great.
>  >
> On which of the submarine cables it runs on, btw?

tat12/13, rioja, odin, denmark, se-dk-17.

--Peter