Re: [anti-spam-wg] Non-cooperation of RIPE ISP in investigating report of email abuse (spam)

[John Draper lists@localhost]

der Mouse wrote:
> > That aside, however, currently there is no policy or procedures for
> > RIPE to follow up on incorrect contact information in the database.
> > [...]
> > In addition while RIPE has produced a number of documents [...]
> > neither the NCC nor this WG are empowered to act to stop an ISP or
> > their customers from [emitting abuse].
> >     
> And there you have in a nutshell the reason why the net is so
> abuse-ridden - RIPE should hever have had even so much as one address
> assigned for them to delegate as long as either of those is true.
>
> Authority without responsibility.  Bad news wherever it's found.
>
> RIPE's authority needs to be revoked (their allocations yanked) until
> they accept responsibility concomitant with it.  Of course, that won't
> happen - and, as a result, we'll see abuse from RIPE space continue to
> escalate.
>
>   
> > So, in short, we are not the right people to whom to report this
> > issue.
> >     
> You are *exactly* the right people to report it to.  That you are
> determined to wash your hands of the responsibility that goes with your
> authority is in large part why RIPE space is so abuse-ridden; that
> ICANN and the IANA are letting you get away with it is why it has
> continued that way for so long (and, because they do the same nothing
> with other RIRs, why the rest of the world has similar problems).
>
> /~\ The ASCII				der Mouse
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>
>
>   
I totally agree - when I was running SpamCrunchers,  I very aggressively 
went after RIPE, APNIC and bitterly complained about some of their 
database updating policies.  Eventually,  after really hitting them hard 
with "Bogus Whois" complaints,  I started to get SOME action,  but that 
was back in 2004.   No telling HOW irresponsible they are now,  and it 
almost gives me the impression they RIPE and others, are on the take and 
helping spammers.
Upstream providers can also help identify the spammers if one comes 
across a BOGUS WHOIS.   I have UNIX Daemons that automatically deal with 
BOGUS WHOIS complaining,  as it automatically checks every 3 weeks,  
after a 3rd time,  it automatically sends another BOGUS WHOIS 
complaint... then sends one to the upstream provider.
I definately agree that RIPE,  ARIN, and other IP Block assignment 
agencies HAVE to take a good part of the responsibility for making it 
very difficult to track down hostile traffic.
WHOIS queries were designed to allow security folks to track down 
network problems of all sorts,  and they (RIPE,  ARIN) have the 
responsibiity to keep their data updated.  So they should be part of the 
solution instead of being part of the problem.
John