TT-WG, version 1.1

  • From: Henk Uijterwaal henk@localhost
  • Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:05:27 +0100


Please find below version 1.1 of the the minutes from our meeting at
RIPE 59.  Comments either on the list or to the chairs directly by
December 7, 2009 please.

Ian & Henk


Test Traffic Working Group
RIPE 59, Lisbon
Wednesday, 7 October 2009, 14:00 - 15:30
Scribe: Rene Wilhelm, RIPE NCC
Jabber: Anand Buddhdev

A. Administrative Matters
Ian Meikle, Co-Chair of the Test Traffic Working Group, welcomed
attendees and opened the session. The minutes from RIPE58 were approved.

B. TTM Network Update
Erik Romijn, RIPE NCC

Erik presented the TTM status update which had been prepared by Ruben
van Staveren. The measurement network now has 84 active test-boxes. In
the past months boxes have been added in Kenya, South Africa, Uruguay,
Pakistan, Hong Kong and Iran. No boxes were decomissioned.

C. RIPE NCC NetSense
Franz Schwarzinger & Vasco Asturiano, RIPE NCC

Netsense, the new rich user interface to the suite of RIPE NCC
Information Services, was unveiled in tuesday's plenary session. In the
tt-wg meeting Franz and Vasco discussed the backgrounds of the design
and development process in more detail. Vasco continued with a live
demonstration of the Netsense product.

D. Throughput metrics and packet delay in TCP/IP networks

Timur Sultanov, Samara State Aerospace University (SSAU)

Timur presented the work done at SSAU on measuring available bandwidth
and capacity with a TTM box. By measuring delays of packets with
changing size, they were able to calculate the two performance
indicators. The main problem with the work is the limited number of
measurements they could perform; in TTM only one measurement relation
could be tested (between tt143 in Samara and tt01 in Amsterdam). He and
his colleagues are looking for partners who can help in performing
additional measurments.

E. IPv6 deployment monitoring

Emile Aben, RIPE NCC presenting on behalf of Rob Smets, TNO.

Emile presented TNO's work on IPv6 deployement measurements. The basic
idea is to include a small bit of javascript on various websites which
will make the users' machine try connect back to a test server using
IPv4 and IPv6 protocols. The resulting data set will provide insight in
endusers' capability to use IPv6.

Daniel Karrenberg commented he likes it very much and would like to
participate. However, before doing so he would like to discuss with TNO
what kind of data they will publish from these measurements. Daniel is
concerned about indivduals' privacy, but would also like to discuss
possibilities of sharing the raw data, for other people to do analysis
with too. Once he has talked to TNO and the answers and the publication
policy are acceptable, Daniel will get  the javascript installed on the
RIPE NCC websites he is responsible for and will find others to join the

Steve Padgett from Google suggested to also check for users who have a
broken IPv6 install. Specifically, users who can connect to a site when
receiving an A record from the DNS, but cannot connect when receiving
both an A and AAAA record. Services are not going to want to be
reachable via both v6 and v4 on a single hostname until they can verify
users are not going to break.

Maarten Botterman from GNKS consult commented on the data retention
policy TNO had in mind. The intention was not to release to anybody
outside of the study. They have a reputation to keep and obviously
sharing that would be very damaging to the project. They would want to
keep further research on the data very limited. However, if it would be
possible to do this in collaboration with RIPE NCC, they would certainly
go consider it. To get confirmation that the community agrees with TNO
sharing the data with RIPE NCC, Maarten asked for a show of hands of
people who do not want to see the data shared with anyone outside the
project team. One person raised his hand. Maarten said they could talk

F. Possible WG Charter Update

Ian Meikle presented the proposal by the chairs to widen the charter of
the test-traffic working group to also include to include topics outside
of the RIPE NCC Test Traffic Measurements. Noting the feedback on the
tt-wg mailing list was quite positive, he asked the audience if they
support this too.

Dave Wilson from HEAnet stated his organisation would like to give their

Daniel Karrenberg commented that basically the proposal solidifies the
status quo. The working group already has moved in that direction.

Ian Meikle replied the chairs wanted to make sure there were no
objections before formalising it in the charter of the test-traffic
working group. As a next step he will report on these developments in
the Closing Plenary on Friday, to make the broadening of tt-wg more
widely known. Discussion on the proposed wording of the charter will
continue on the mailing list.


Henk Uijterwaal                           Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)
RIPE Network Coordination Centre
P.O.Box 10096          Singel 258         Phone: +31.20.5354414
1001 EB Amsterdam      1016 AB Amsterdam  Fax: +31.20.5354445
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