[ncc-services-wg] RIPE50 - NCC Services WG Draft Minutes

At 10:33 AM 29-06-05 +0200, Andrei Robachevsky wrote:

>However, it seems that for you (and maybe some other people) the core
>value of the Hostcount is in the raw data, not so much in the statistics
>and a measurement of the "size of the Internet". This is different from
>the objectives of the projects as was presented at RIPE 50.

Perhaps it is time to survey all those who responded positively (as I did) 
to continued development on hostcount - as to the reasons they felt that 
way rather than assuming they were all referring to statistics.   I gave 
almost all of my 100 points in the survey to hostcount development.


>In our view, while there are cases where raw data may be useful, the
>real value of the Hostcount for the community is in the statistics and
>trends that are produced from different data sources (e.g. forward DNS
>tree, reverse DNS, BGP tables).

Do you base that view on some empirical data?  Can you point me at the 
link?  As said above, perhaps it is time to survey your membership before 
proceeding?


>There are a few issues with publishing the raw data. One of them is that
>the implicit AUP under which data is collected does not necessarily
>match the AUP under which data is used. I believe some of the ccTLD
>would not like their data to be published and assuring them that this
>will not be the case may facilitate their participation in this project.

I've read the AUP at:
http://www.ripe.net/info/stats/hostcount/aup.html
and could not find the clause that states that what I do is wrong or evenly 
possibly wrong based on the AUP.  The data is never published, reproduced 
or transmitted or used for advertising.  What if I got specific permission 
from the il cctld admin allowing what I do?


>Secondly, there are commercial products available on the market, the ISC
>domain survey is just one of those.

If we go down the path of commercial products, I think I can find a 
commercial product for almost every RIPE research related effort.


>Finally we wish to make all software publicly available so people may
>collect data themselves. In your case that may be a collaboration with
>the Israeli ccTLD administrator.
>
>Therefore in the Hostcount++ we proposed not to ship raw data at all.

I see no reason why a signed AUP can't continued to be used as before to 
allow access to the raw data files.


>But if the consensus is that raw data is the real value of this project,
>then we need to make adjustments to the requirements.

I raise my hand and I hope others do as well.

-Hank


> > Regards,
> > Hank
>
>Regards,
>
>Andrei Robachevsky
>RIPE NCC
>
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