[members-discuss] Complaints against LIRs ignored by NCC
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Thomas Mangin
thomas.mangin at exa-networks.co.uk
Fri Nov 22 13:29:46 CET 2013
+1 And please do not reply to his RHETORICAL questions. Thomas On 22 Nov 2013, at 12:26, Simon Lockhart <s.lockhart at cablecomnetworking.co.uk> wrote: > Really, this needs to move off-list. There is clearly a personal vendetta > here, and it's getting tiresome for the rest of us. > > Even if IPs are reclaimed from an LIR as a result of an audit, what difference > is it going to make? It's not as if RIPE will start allocating from them > again... > > If you believe there's fraud being carried out, report it to the law > enforcement agencies - nothing said on this list can fix it. > > IPv4 is over. Move on. Focus on deploying IPv6. > > Simon > > On Fri Nov 22, 2013 at 11:49:06AM +0000, Alexandr Gurbo wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> Yes, the right to speak - start audit for LIR(s). LIR who received blocks from RIPE NCC and allow announce in ARIN region from AS35916. Andrei, thanks for correcting. >> >> Is this all allocated blocks in use? Why they announced in ARIN region? >> Maybe Mr. Lu explain and we will not have more question. >> >> We are live in the region served by RIPE NCC. This is our resources that given to other regions. >> What allocations led to the exhaustion of resources in our region. As a result, we can't get more ip address. I think this isn't normal. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 11:21:04 +0100 >> Andrei Kushnireuski <ipas.master at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> RIPE NCC doesn't audit ASNs but LIRs =) >>> >>> Looks like this is misunderstanding/misspelling from Alexandr's side. >>> >>> AS35916 is assigned by ARIN and it is used by US based webhosting/colocation provider from Los Angeles. >>> >>> If I understand correctly the initial issue is a usage of huge amount of IPv4 outside RIPE Region and It's a reason for audit. >>> >>> >>> On 22 Nov 2013, at 10:55, J??nis Jauno????ns <jj at streamnetworks.lv> wrote: >>> >>>> Dude, >>>> as-block: AS35840 - AS36863 >>>> descr: ARIN ASN block >>>> >>>> why RIPE would have to audit ARIN block? >>>> >>>> I'm not saying that Lu is bad, but I don't like the idea that everybody >>>> goes: hey, he has been on meetings, hands off. >>>> when you see some psycho on TV who has been working in public and their >>>> neighbors will tell you, - he was a good guy, but in the end, he ate >>>> children :D >>>> >>>> The fact that he has so much resources and visits meetings can be a good >>>> and a bad thing, he knows the system inside out. >>>> Might be that he likes IT, might be that he's abusing it. >>>> I'm not going to bash my head against the keyboard to prove something, >>>> RIPE got this. :) >>>> >>>> >>>> On 22/11/13 08:49, Alexandr Gurbo wrote: >>>>> Hello all, >>>>> >>>>> When was last audit for AS35916? >>>>> Such allocations are similar to fraud. >>>>> >>>>> May be Mr. Lu open and active person, and active present at the meetings, but.... >>>>> >>>>> RIPE NCC stuff, to clarify incident please start audit for AS35916 and announce results to us. >>>>> Don't provide to us private information about business client. Provide information on the allocated blocks. They are used for their intended purpose or not. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:47:40 +0100 >>>>> Andrei <ipas.master at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Dear colleagues, >>>>>> >>>>>> I think you're right. This LIR is a little bit strange and looks like it >>>>>> was registered specially for illegal purposses or IPv4 cybersquatting but I >>>>>> couldn't see any IPs usage for mailing by senderbase.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately, this is 'normal' practice from RIPE NCC staff to reject >>>>>> abuses. I have sent several abuses for Spamhaus SBL listed (DROP) ranges >>>>>> with request for investigation but there was a single reply 'if this >>>>>> assignment was made it means it 100% valid for RIPE NCC'. >>>>>> >>>>>> For me, LIR audit is a single solution at this situaion. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:36 PM, sergey myasoedov <kaa at net-art.cz> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dear William, >>>>>>> this is a good investigation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Have the RIPE NCC performed the 'audit' procedure of suspicious LIR? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>> sergey myasoedov >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You wrote Thursday, November 21, 2013, 3:05:40 PM: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As RIPE seems to have decided that i can be ignored and no one needs to >>>>>>> reply to me i >>>>>>>> make this public now as threatened to them before - See Dear Andrew, i >>>>>>> don't care what >>>>>>>> you say - if you don't reply me with anything useful then i take steps >>>>>>> to get others involved. >>>>>>>> This is not the first time i reported a LIR for evaluation and was >>>>>>> ignored. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I waited over a month for any reply and sent multiple follow up mails, >>>>>>> no replies and >>>>>>>> the ticket is "open" in the Lirportal, now the last reply i got was >>>>>>> again useless and >>>>>>>> without any interest (No Andrew, i cannot use the LIR<>LIR report form >>>>>>> to report LIR<>RIPE, i can't even enter that there.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Theres some more fun to be had, here's a text i prepared before i sent >>>>>>> my mail to RIPE >>>>>>>> after some investigations (which merely took 10 minutes time and a few >>>>>>> calls to some >>>>>>>> associates) - Now, isn't that proof enough for an evaluation? >>>>>>>> I think so and the other LIRs i represent do as well, but make your own >>>>>>> picture. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Today we follow an interesting 'ISP' which is based on a sole-trader in >>>>>>> the Netherlands >>>>>>>> which managed to have RIPE/Afrinic/ARIN assign him IPv4 space totaling >>>>>>> to a /8: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> His name is Heng Lu, also known as "OutsideHeaven" - >>>>>>> http://outsideheaven.com >>>>>>>> Seemingly based in the Netherlands Lu is of Chinese origin and does (as >>>>>>> far as informations go) not live in Europe at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> First being a customer of OVH and having his IP space announced on OVHs >>>>>>> AS now most >>>>>>>> space seems to be announced by Los Angeles based ISP Multacom (AS35916). >>>>>>>> A short view on the website shows that no real services are provided yet >>>>>>> massive >>>>>>>> amounts of IPs are registered to him personally, him as sole trader or >>>>>>> his companies at all RIRs: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs >>>>>>>> This is an AFRINIC net assigned to a company in the Seychelles ("Abacus >>>>>>> (Seychelles) >>>>>>>> Limited"), the Person handle and mail shows the connection to >>>>>>> OutsideHeaven. >>>>>>>> The network itself contains smaller assignments, all with the descr of >>>>>>> "CloudInnovation >>>>>>>> infrastructure" and various countries set (AD, SD, YT???.), most IPs are >>>>>>> not announced at all and seem unused. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs >>>>>>>> A RIPE network from 2012.09 announced by Multacom in LAX outside of the >>>>>>> RIPE region. >>>>>>>> Seems unused. >>>>>>>> 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs >>>>>>>> RIPE network dating to 2012.07 (Just 3 months after the /15 was >>>>>>> allocated, exactly the >>>>>>>> timeframe RIPE required a space to be used in to get a new one???), >>>>>>> announced on OVH. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs >>>>>>>> Yet another RIPE network from 2012.04 (who can spell 'bribe'?) announced >>>>>>> by OVH on France, unused as well. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs >>>>>>>> Allocated 2010.11 - Announced by a datacenter in the Netherlands, unused. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65000 IPs >>>>>>>> 2011.04 - Announced in LAX/Multacom. >>>>>>>> List (not complete, there is more smaller assignments on him): >>>>>>>> 154.80.0.0/12 - Afrinic - 1.048.574 IPs >>>>>>>> 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs - 2012.09 >>>>>>>> 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09 >>>>>>>> 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2012.07 >>>>>>>> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04 >>>>>>>> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2011.04 >>>>>>>> 46.136.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2010.11 >>>>>>>> 178.236.224.0/20 - RIPE - 4096 IPs - 2010.06 >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> William Weber | RIPE Person: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh (among others) >>>>>>>> william at edisglobal.com | william at william.si | http://edis.at | >>>>>>> http://as57169.net >>>>>>>> EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC >>>>>>>> Maribor, Slovenia >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anfang der weitergeleiteten Nachricht: >>>>>>>>> Von: William Weber <william at edis.at> >>>>>>>>> Betreff: Aw: NCC#2013100726 Complaint against a LIR >>>>>>>>> Datum: 09. Oktober 2013 13:18:36 MESZ >>>>>>>>> An: Andrew de la Haye <andrew at ripe.net> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dear Andrew, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And who verified that these 2 analysts were not bribed... i know guys >>>>>>> buying /12s by bribing AFRINIC officials (in fact, the same LIR as this >>>>>>> mail is about "bought" space there also, 154.80.0.0/12) and this isn't >>>>>>> unheard in LACNIC/APNIC either, so what tells me RIPE did/does not do the >>>>>>> same... >>>>>>>>> Sorry, but this is not really any better now: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This guy "accidentally" sits in Amsterdam as well, not even far from >>>>>>> you, being Chinese(!) with barely 3000EUR income reports filled 2012/2013 >>>>>>> in the Netherlands for his BVs and his sole trader status and has one of >>>>>>> the largest total >>>>>>>>> allocations in the entire RIPE region? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How can he announce 2(!) *ENTIRE* /15 from an ARIN ASN in Los Angeles >>>>>>> while i and others got contacted by RIPE about a measly /24 on an ARIN ASN? >>>>>>>>> Why do his assignments make no sense, look auto generated and never >>>>>>> contain any end-user data? Why was this not verified at add-alloc? >>>>>>>>> How does he use over a million IPs on a 100Mbit uplink to his upstream >>>>>>> provider? >>>>>>>>> This all is still very fishy and not really impressive... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, >>>>>>>>> William Weber >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> EDIS GmbH >>>>>>>>> NOC >>>>>>>>> Hauptplatz 3/3 >>>>>>>>> 8010 Graz >>>>>>>>> Austria >>>>>>>>> Umsatzsteuer-ID: ATU 64124511 >>>>>>>>> Firmenbuch: FN 308697t >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> phone: +43 316 827 500 >>>>>>>>> fax: +43 316 827 500 777 >>>>>>>>> http://www.edis.at >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This message was sent by EDIS GmbH, it is STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL and is >>>>>>> solely for the individual or organisation to whom it is addressed. It may >>>>>>> contain PRIVILEGED and CONFIDENTIAL information. If you are not the >>>>>>> intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, >>>>>>> distribution or copying of this communication and its contents is strictly >>>>>>> prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify >>>>>>> us at support at edis.at and delete it from your computer. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am 08.10.2013 um 11:55 schrieb Andrew de la Haye <andrew at ripe.net>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Dear William, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> We take your allegations very seriously. As such, your ticket has been >>>>>>> escalated to me by Andrea Cima, manager of the RIPE NCC's Registration >>>>>>> Services Department. >>>>>>>>>> Before the RIPE NCC reached the last /8 of IPv4 address space, we >>>>>>> implemented a temporarily enhanced allocation procedure to ensure a fair, >>>>>>> neutral and well-documented IPv4 run-out. >>>>>>>>>> This procedure was communicated to our membership and community at >>>>>>> meetings, via the Address Policy Working Group Mailing List, and via our >>>>>>> website. You can find the complete description at: >>>>>>> https://ripe65.ripe.net/presentations/204-last_slash_8_NCC_Services.pdf >>>>>>>>>> Measures were taken to ensure our members' needs were filled on a >>>>>>> first-come, first-served basis, and to ensure that we followed due >>>>>>> diligence. Each request was evaluated by two IP Resource Analysts. >>>>>>> Furthermore, all large requests (/15 PA or /18 PI or more) were rigorously >>>>>>> evaluated by Registration Services Management, checked for policy >>>>>>> compliance by our Policy Development Officer, and were finally approved by >>>>>>> two RIPE NCC Senior Managers. >>>>>>>>>> The IPv4 requests you have listed followed this process completely >>>>>>> and, based on the information we received, were entirely justified. >>>>>>>>>> If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Andrew de la Haye >>>>>>>>>> Chief Operations Officer >>>>>>>>>> RIPE NCC >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Singel 258 >>>>>>>>>> 1016 AB Amsterdam >>>>>>>>>> the Netherlands >>>>>>>>>> andrew at ripe.net >>>>>>>>>> tel: +31 20 535 4444 >>>>>>>>>> fax: +31 20 535 4445 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am 07.10.2013 um 14:29 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster <hostmaster at ripe.net >>>>>>>> : >>>>>>>>> Dear William, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As requested I have escalated your complaint to the RIPE NCC Senior >>>>>>>>> Management. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> They will come back to you ASAP. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> Andrea Cima >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> RIPE NCC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:11:37 +0200, William Weber wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Dear Andrea, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So if there is no proof for a bribe you do as it does not exist at all? >>>>>>>>>> Why did no one tell me this before, i would have come with a suitcase >>>>>>> of cash to AMS... Seriously, this statement is worse than what 3rd world >>>>>>> dictators state all the time about bribery... >>>>>>>>>> Considering that RIPE members have no access to other RIPE members >>>>>>> add-alloc (or any other) forms it is also entirely *impossible* to prove >>>>>>> lies in them (hey, how should i do that if i can't read them at all?) - >>>>>>> Thus it clearly is your obligation to verify this claims OR provide the >>>>>>> accuser with access to a system to verify it himself. >>>>>>>>>> It is by itself alone VERY suspicious that the single largest >>>>>>> allocation for weeks is allocated 8 days before the last /8 is reached to >>>>>>> an unknown sole trader without any business.... yes, i think i have enough >>>>>>> 'proof' to get this verified by the RIPE, please escalate it to whoever you >>>>>>> think is appropriate or i will do so myself today at 00:00 via the RIPE >>>>>>> mailing list to ALL members. >>>>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> William Weber >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> EDIS GmbH >>>>>>>>>> NOC >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Am 04.10.2013 um 15:52 schrieb RIPE NCC Hostmaster < >>>>>>> hostmaster at ripe.net>: >>>>>>>>>>> Dear William, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All allocations are issued based on RIPE policy and documentation that >>>>>>>>>>> demonstrates the need for those resources. The information provided by >>>>>>>>>>> members is confidential and cannot be shared with other members. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you have proof that a member has provided false information to the >>>>>>>>>>> RIPE NCC, please provide us this proof. Based on this we can then >>>>>>>>>>> start evaluating the claims and take appropriate actions. The same >>>>>>>>>>> counts for your accusation of a RIPE NCC emloyee having received a >>>>>>>>>>> bribe, which is a very serious accusation, that we do not take >>>>>>>>>>> lightly. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Finally it seems there is a misunderstanding about the date on which >>>>>>>>>>> the RIPE NCC has reached its last /8 policy. The correct date is 14 >>>>>>>>>>> September 2012. Please find the official announcement at: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ncc-services-wg/2012-September/001825.html >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Andrea Cima >>>>>>>>>>> Registration Services Manager >>>>>>>>>>> RIPE NCC >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:49:32 +0200, William Weber wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> x-ncc-regid: at.edisgmbh (and at.<removed>, li.<removed>, >>>>>>> li.<removed>, plus representing <removed> and <removed>) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, i have to complain again to evaluate someone.... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> LIR is nl.outsideheaven >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I am 100% sure that the allocation of his netblocks have either used >>>>>>> false data in the add-alloc forms, plain lies or bribes (which i see as the >>>>>>> most likely) - His company has no trading activity in any country (verified >>>>>>> with Dutch and Chinese tax authorities) and nothing that would justify the >>>>>>> usage of this amounts of IPv4 space. >>>>>>>>>>>> His usage of some of them also violates RIPE rules, most are for >>>>>>> example not even announced inside the RIPE region but originate from >>>>>>> AS35916 (Multacom in Los Angeles, USA) solely. >>>>>>>>>>>> The assignments while RIPE already reached the last /8 are very >>>>>>> questionable as well and overturning a members and board decision. >>>>>>>>>>>> 185.2.48.0/22 - RIPE - 1024 IPs - 2012.09 >>>>>>>>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 5.224.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.09 >>>>>>>>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>>>>>>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /15 5 months AFTER RIPE reached the >>>>>>> last /8? >>>>>>>>>>>> 5.132.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2012.07 >>>>>>>>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>>>>>>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /16 3 months AFTER RIPE reached the >>>>>>> last /8? >>>>>>>>>>>> 37.222.0.0/15 - RIPE - 131.070 IPs - 2012.04 >>>>>>>>>>>> -> How was he able to obtain a /15 1 month AFTER RIPE reached the >>>>>>> last /8? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 31.201.0.0/16 - RIPE - 65.534 IPs - 2011.04 >>>>>>>>>>>> -> Announced in the ARIN region entirely, not RIPE >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> William Weber >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> EDIS GmbH >>>>>>>>>>>> NOC >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---- >>>>>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>>>>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the >>>>>>> general page: >>>>>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From >>>>>>> here, you can add or remove addresses. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Andrei Kushnireuski >>>>>> Alfa Telecom s.r.o. >>>>>> REGID: cz.alfatelecom >>>>>> nic-hdl: AK1065-RIPE >>>>>> phone: +420226020360 >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> T??lrunis: +371 67788888 >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >>>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >>>> >>>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >>> >>> - >>> Andrei Kushnireuski >>> AK1065-RIPE >>> regID: cz.alfatelecom >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >>> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >>> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >>> >>> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. >> >> -- >> Alexandr Gurbo >> >> ---- >> If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss >> mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: >> https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view >> >> Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. > > -- > Simon Lockhart | Tel: +44 1275 793 400 | Si fractum > Technical Director | Mob: +44 7789 913304 | non sit, noli > Cablecom Networking Ltd | WWW: www.cablecomnetworking.co.uk | id reficere > Unit 3-5 Windmill Business Park, Windmill Road, Kenn. BS21 6SR. UK > > ---- > If you don't want to receive emails from the RIPE NCC members-discuss > mailing list, please log in to your LIR Portal account and go to the general page: > https://lirportal.ripe.net/general/view > > Click on "Edit my LIR details", under "Subscribed Mailing Lists". From here, you can add or remove addresses. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 203 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: <https://lists.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/members-discuss/attachments/20131122/4fd1b414/attachment.sig>
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