[members-discuss] [Ticket#2012072401002498] Probably Free /8 networks in RIPE region

Yea.... we all know you are *THE* expert about hijacked space ;-)


--
William Weber | RIPE: WW | LIR: at.edisgmbh
william at edisglobal.com | william at edis.at | http://edis.at | http://as57169.net
EDIS GmbH (AS57169) NOC
Graz, Austria

Am 27.07.2012 um 12:14 schrieb Sven Olaf Kamphuis:

> how about the entire class-e space (244/8 and up)
> 
> milnet (21,22,26)
> 
> etc
> 
> all of which not-announced at all.
> 
> but better you just switch to v6 :P
> 
> as for the e-class space, nobody seems to 'claim' it so just use it lol
> 
> 
> On Fri, 27 Jul 2012, Paolo Di Francesco wrote:
> 
>> Hi William
>> 
>> 
>>> WIND uses by far *more* than 5mil IPs - They are the second largest
>>> access provider in Italy, in fact they are so short already that they
>>> run NAT now...
>> 
>> I guess it's not the only net allocated to wind, but just to make things
>> clear regarding the IPv4-IPv6 situation in Italy:
>> 
>> 1) at the current date each provider MUST allocate one public IPv4 for
>> each contract (not customer, contract, which means if you have one
>> company with 50 employees at minimum one public IPv4 must be allocated)
>> 2) NAT (=multiple customers beyond one public IP) with some form of
>> "connection tracking" has been proposed, but yet not accepted by the
>> Italian government
>> 3) the big telco told us that dual stack cannot be done and they will
>> never implement it so far because:
>> 3.a) there is no mobile device well supporting IPv6
>> 3.b) IPv6 traffic is insignificant, the traffic is only IPv4 (well if
>> they do not provider IPv6 to customers I see some barriers to have IPv6
>> traffic...)
>> 3.c) IPv6 WILL NOT HAPPEN for a looooong time, and they will NOT provide
>> dual stack
>> 3.d) xDSL modems do not support IPv6 (maybe they should change modem
>> brand, I don't know)
>> 3.e) operating systems are not supporting IPv6
>> 
>> We asked them to give dual stack, but the message that I have heard is:
>> no only IPv4 and NAT is the solution for the future, then maybe in some
>> years (5? 10? 20??) we will reconsider IPv6
>> 
>> Therefore I see small and medium ISP running dual stack to be "future
>> ready" while large operators in Italy will run IPv4 and NAT for a long,
>> long time.
>> 
>> Now if RIPE will consider a dual fee for IPv4 and IPv6 I guess that it
>> will not help small LIRs to implement IPv6 and that will be a huge
>> damage for the whole community.
>> 
>> It will be funny that small ISP are implementing IPv6 and maybe paying
>> more than big telcos.
>> 
>> Regarding the IPv4-IPv6 policy, my personal opinion is that it's a
>> commercial war: the longer IPv6 dual stack or transition will take, the
>> better will be to keep the market closed and the current positions
>> untouched.
>> 
>> Should we consider an extra fee if you do NOT use IPv6 for customers????
>> 
>> But as I said, we should split the two discussions: one regarding IPv4
>> and IPv6 allocation (and mistakes of the past, when nobody knew what the
>> hell was an IP) and another one regarding RIPE fees. Not saying those
>> two things are not related just saying that IPv4 re-allocation policy
>> for huge systems should be taken into serious consideration
>> 
>> As a last note: if Wind and other operators are using NAT and they are
>> happy with that (instead of implementing dual stack and migration
>> mechanisms) then they DO NOT NEED IPv4, and then then can give it back
>> to RIPE. If with one IPv4 you can put 1,000-10,000 customers, hey we are
>> 60 millions in Italy we need few public IPv4 for big LIRS, right?
>> 
>> Best regards
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> Ing. Paolo Di Francesco
>> 
>> Level7 s.r.l. unipersonale
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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