[members-discuss] [Ticket#2011100501001154] Proposed 2012 Charging scheme, Board comments

I have always defending RIPE in discussions with interested parties, but
I am not so sure any longer. 

One question, regardless of the level of spending, why is an LIR with 1
ASN and a /19 (standard allocation in '98) moving from the small to
medium category? I should think that there are a fair few members in
this situation, we train in house and haven't been to a meeting since
'99 and only interact with RIPE robots.

Looking at the proposed SSA and T&C's
http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/ncc/gm/november-2011/documents/proposed-changes-to-the-ripe-ncc-standard-service-agreement-and-the-ripe-ncc-standard-terms-and-conditions (RIPE admin, the document title is incorrectly labelled Articles of Association).

The rising costs are probably going to be due to an intention to audit
members, bad data will be a reason to cancel membership, with a sign up
fee being applied for regaining membership.(6.3)(9.4i) 

A new article stating resources are not assets will stop trading, the
above will reclaim unused resources, despite all the work needed to
re-aggregate your network (the big legacy blocks accepted again, of
course).(10.2)

If you forget your invoice, no notice, but after 30 days your membership
can be taken away with a sign up fee to re-instate.(5.3)

There seems to be a fracture between what the membership wants and what
the organisation are planning.

Thanks for you time
Mike


On Wed, 2011-10-05 at 14:43 +0000, Michiel Klaver wrote:
> Hi Christopher,
> 
> Looking at the current (and past) charging fees, only 1% of all registered
> LIRs are category extra large, and they already pay 'peanuts' compared to
> their size: 5750 euro, not even the double of a medium size category LIR
> (2750 euro). I doubt those extra large companies would pay considerably
> less with this proposed scheme, as most of them have numerous registered
> objects. Just run an inverse lookup at the RIPE database for some of
> maintainer objects of the extra large category members to see big amounts
> of inetnum objects as result.
> 
> https://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-499
> 
> Some arguments in favour for this new scheme would be:
> - Ease of administration (and less costs for NCC);
> - Fair and transparent for every LIR, without complicated formula like the
> current scheme;
> - Future proof, not based on ipv4 address count;
> 
> 
> Please take a look at the current numbers or wait for the proper
> calculations before jumping to conclusions about this proposal.
> 
> 
> With kind regards,
> Michiel Klaver
> 
> 
> 
> At  Wed, 5 Oct 2011 15:28:01 +0200, "Christopher Kunz (Filoo GmbH)"
> <chris at filoo.de> wrote:
> 
> Err... Great idea... or is it? Really, cui bono?
> 
> This scheme has been proposed numerous times, IIRC even in this very
> discussion. In my perception, Small LIRs will not really profit from it,
> as they typically have a small network (1 or 2 allocations, 1 ASN,
> X-SMALL category). They'll pay roughly the same because the annual
> membership fee will have to be adjusted to account for the losses
> accrued by your idea.
> Medium LIRs might pay slightly less, I guess... There's probably a sweet
> spot somewhere (and I'll assume you calculated it so you're in it ;) ).
> Big LIRs however, with their multiple 12's, large AS sets and network
> allocations would probably pay drastically less than before. This would
> shift the weight off those who massively profit from the resources
> administrated by RIPE NCC onto those who take up less resources. I don't
> consider this to be very fair.
> On the contrary: Those who use up large portions of the address space
> should damn well pay large portions of the NCC's bills.
> 
> In addition, charging per resource allocation, be it one address or 65K,
> looks like "per address" charging to the tax authorities. And this is
> specifically what RIPE is looking to avoid.
> 
> Gruß,
> 
> --ck
> 
> PS: To the colleagues at Telekom and PrivateLayer: GET YOUR DAMN TICKET
> SYSTEMS OFF THIS LIST!
> 
> 
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-- 


Mike Hollowell

Arrowhead Systems Ltd
http://www.theinternet.org.uk
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fax: +44 1782 410734

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