[members-discuss] Proposed 2012 Charging scheme, Board comments

Dear All,

I agree with what Fred wrote. As a small ISP (and also startup) I 
forecast troubles in the future for who wants to get into the business 
next year.

Indeed I do not think that a "pure IPv6" operator-network is feasable 
for an Italian ISP, most of the content is still (and it will be) on 
IPv6 for a long time.

Considering that in Italy we cannot (for legal reasons) to do nat or yes 
we can do but only a 1-to-1 nat, this means that a small ISP that starts 
the business when the IPv4 address space is gone would have huge 
difficulties in making that content reachable for its customers.

In few words most of the techincal difficulties and issues would go to 
the small ISP while big and huge systems would still use their "IPv4 
reserves" which not so many issues.

My personal opinion is that, being IPv4 a scarse resource, the big 
systems/telco (who holds most of the content in most cases) should be 
pushed to implement IPv6 asap. And that would happen only with an 
aggressive (exponential) IPv4 fee plan that discourage the use of IPv4 
address space.
I find immoral and techincally

> Dear Nigel,
>
> Implementing IPv6 only works if we use a "big bang policy" like the millennium problem or the Euro. That is not going to happen, because we cannot force members or their customers to go along at the same time. For that reason I believe the following situation is true:
>
> 1. IPv4 billing remains and IPv6 billing with much more address space opens the door for more members.
>
> For a non-profit organization that would mean lowering the membership fees and lowering the allocation fees... Did anyone made a calculation on how RIPE would benefit from a significant increase in members during 2012?
>
> 2. New members should have equal rights compared to current members to implement IPv4 and IPv6.
>
> Since last February the last /8's have been given to the RIR's. They are now almost depleted. This means new members can't have new IPv4 addresses and should right away start with implementing IPv6. The effects of that depletion is that among current members IPv4 address space is being sold/transferred. This works in hand a rise in cost for new members who need IPv4 and it starts looking like a trade floor which totally opposes the RIPE allocation policies.
>
> 3. The strongest shoulders should carry the heaviest load.
>
> I would like to suggest claiming back some old allocations, starting with the /8's which are also not used for more than 15 per cent at the most. Those companies/institutions have much more resources to implement IPv6 faster than most of us.
>
> More members would avoid increase in membership fees, but this is actually hold back due to lack of IPv4 and the backdoor trade which start to flourish wildly ...
>
> Regards,
>
> Fred Arendse
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-bounces at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Nigel Titley
> Sent: vrijdag 30 september 2011 9:53
> To: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Subject: [members-discuss] Proposed 2012 Charging scheme, Board comments
>
> Dear all,
>
> I would like to update you about the RIPE NCC Executive Board deliberations regarding the draft charging scheme for 2012.
>
> We presented you with two draft schemes, in early summer, to gather feedback from you. We did this as we wanted to hear your opinions on measures we want to take which are designed to keep the RIPE NCC financially stable and capable of serving its members as it should.
>
> You engaged in a lively discussion on this mailing list, and even ran a mini-survey. We followed the exchanges closely and as result asked RIPE NCC staff to provide the board with another charging scheme option, based on a sliding scale scheme that eliminated the membership categories we currently use.
>
> During the board meeting of last Friday, 23 September, we discussed the merits as well as some of the issues of that model. Obviously a sliding scale model as its main benefit does away with the fee jumps of the category based model. We were pleased with the model that we developed with the NCC staff and felt that it addressed many of the issues raised by you, the members.
>
> However, in consultation with our tax lawyers we have had to think again. Because it brings a "fee-per-address" flavour to the charging model of the RIPE NCC it fundamentally alters the tax scheme under which we operate. The current "category" model allows us to argue that we are a membership association with different categories  of membership. This brings substantial tax advantages.
>
> As you know, for a long time the RIPE NCC tax situation has been extremely favourable, as we don't have to pay corporation tax, based on an agreement made with the Dutch tax authorities many years ago. We are advised that the envisaged change in the charging scheme would lead to a re-assessment of that agreement, with the likely outcome that the association's surplus would have to be taxed, leading to a significant financial liability, with an obvious knock-on effect to the member fees.
>
> In the light of this, the board members have agreed not to expose our organisation to that risk, staying with a category based system. We have however noted your preference for reduced "fee jumps" between categories, and have instructed NCC staff to produce a charging scheme model based on 10 categories, doubling the current category number.
> Category divisions will be based on a count of address space held.
>
> This revised Charging Scheme 2012 we will publish, as usual, prior to the General Meeting in November, for approval by the members during the General Meeting. We can advise you already that we are opening up the voting mechanism for all resolutions to include electronic voting, so that all members of the association have a good opportunity to take a full part in the proceedings.
>
> At this time, I would like to thank you all, on behalf of the RIPE NCC Executive Board, for participating in the discussion. I look forward to seeing as many of you as possible at the next General Meeting.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Nigel Titley
> Chairman
> RIPE NCC Executive Board
>
>
>
>
>
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