SV: [ncc-services-wg] Re: [members-discuss] New Charging Scheme

an asn could be a few cents.
as actually, there are enough asn's to go around for everyone that 
currently has a single ipv4 ip address (as asn's are 32 bit too ;)

and you normally only need 1 or very few of them anyway.

(unless ofcourse you finally want to roll out the internet as it was 
intended, and give every home user their own)

in which case an asn should still cost less than a single ipv4 ip,
as you don't need to subnet them, there is no waste, and complete
networks still just require -1- (serverfarms, office networks, etc)

i don't think that if we were to give each and every internet connected
party at each and every single one of their locations their own asn,
we'd even reach 1/4th of the 32 bit integer size

so there actually is no reason for an asn to cost "more" than a single 
ipv4 address, or a person contact (free) or a role contact (free) or a 
maintainer contact (free), as they simply, cannot run out.

as for the current pi billing model: its not charged per /24, its charged 
per -resource-. if you wanted a /22 and got 4 /24's you pay four times as 
much as with the single /22 :P

On Thu, 4 Aug 2011, Geir Aage Amundsen wrote:

> Can't we just charge IPv4 /24 50 euro as we do with PI. So a /21 8 X 50 =
> 400. A /20 will be a 800. We can take a RIPE member charge 500,-. I ASN
> could be 50 or 100. The price can be adjusted annually accordingly after a
> index.
>
> This could be the pricing model for the IP 4 and ASN. The membership could
> include one /24 and one ASN.
>
> I haven't taken the consideration of IP6 space. I /24 could potentially give
> 64 connections to clients and is well worth 50 I should guess. We can get
> rid of the XS and XL size system. This should cover RIPE administration
> expenses.
>
> Regards
>
> Geir
> Hotwire Network
>
>
>
> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
> Fra: members-discuss-admin at ripe.net [mailto:members-discuss-admin at ripe.net]
> På vegne av SPEEDNIC S.R.L. - RIPE Handling
> Sendt: 4. august 2011 21:07
> Til: members-discuss at ripe.net
> Emne: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Re: [members-discuss] New Charging Scheme
>
>
> there is a logic - larger operators will use much more IPv4 space and
> don't care IPv4 space. New LIR's will not have the chance to do that as
> each year it will be much restricted from RIPE in fact that IPv4 space
> is coming more and more rare.
>
> A lot of "big LIR" will have a high pool of "not used" IPv4 address but
> they are not care to reduce/return that space as other can use it. So
> why a little LIR should only have the right to get a /22 (as we are
> going to got a LIR in 1997 it was a /19).
>
> A used based charge is the only best charge even like "member points".
> As a gift to be not less supported a idea is to get them more "voices"
> an the general meeting, more courses place or anythink like this.
>
> There is no logic that a small LIR (as they are a lot of all members)
> should pay the high percentage even the don't use the high ranges of IPv4.
>
> Have you asked one time as a small/medium LIR to order a /16 network ??
> If a big LIR will ask he will receive without a lot of information. For
> a small/medium LIR it was like unpossible to get a new /19 in the past
> as we know it from ourself as we only got a /20 one.
>
> bye alex
>
>
> Am 04.08.2011 14:05, schrieb Daniel Kleeman:
>> I strongly agree that there is no logic in charging larger operators  less
> per IP than smaller operators. To do so would be an incentive for operators
> to hog more IPs, not fewer. If there is to be a charge (which I do not
> support) then it should be a flat rate.
>>
>> Daniel Kleeman
>> Bridge Partners
>> GB
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: members-discuss-admin at ripe.net
> [mailto:members-discuss-admin at ripe.net] On Behalf Of Paolo Di Francesco
>> Sent: 04 August 2011 14:44
>> To: Christian 'wiwi' Wittenhorst
>> Cc: Florian Weimer; members-discuss at ripe.net
>> Subject: Re: [ncc-services-wg] Re: [members-discuss] New Charging Scheme
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I disagree with this approach for two reasons:
>>
>> 1) the IPv4 resource is a scarse resourse therefore, the more you
> request/use the MORE you pay (and not the LESS you pay). So I support the
> following approach: /8=0.490 and /22=0.002
>>
>> 2) if the big operators have no economical incentive to adopt IPv6 (see
> point 1) we will still be working ONLY in IPv4 for the years to come.
>>
>> I really do not see any reason why a big operator (=big money) should pay
> less than a small operator.
>>
>> My concern is that:
>>
>> a) the fact that IPv4 is going to be exausted in the near future will make
> a commercial discrimination between who can give IPv4 addresses to customers
> and who cannot, we need a quick adoption of IPv6 from the big operators.
>>
>> b) malicious big operators do not want to implement IPv6 because the
> allocation of Ipv4 makes them stronger than newcomers (who will have NEW
>> IPv4 addresses in 2014?)
>>
>> Just my 2 euro cents.
>>
>>> On 2011-08-03 15:31, Florian Weimer wrote:
>>>> I don't think RIPE NCC is in a position to establish an address space
>>>> tax. Existing fees are there to cover administrative costs and other
>>>> RIPE activities, not as an incentive for address space conservation.
>>> It is NOT a tax... The EUR 0.002/IP "fee" is way to low to promote
>>> address space conservation. RIPE has 49 /8 assigned by IANA, being
>>> some 800M IP addresses. So the annual costs PER IP address in the RIPE
>>> region are EUR 0.018/(IP*year), *10-times* more than the EUR 0.002 -
>>> the 2010 budget of RIPE being EUR 15M. And no, it's not even unfair to
>>> the big player.
>>>
>>> Costs per IP (and year) in my proposal:
>>>
>>> /22  0.490
>>> /21  0.441
>>> /20  0.319
>>> /19  0.210
>>> /18  0.130
>>> /17  0.078
>>> /16  0.046
>>> /15  0.027
>>> /14  0.016
>>> /13  0.010
>>> /12  0.006
>>> /11  0.004
>>> /10  0.003
>>> /9   0.003
>>> /8   0.002
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>      wiwi
>>>
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>>
>>
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