From gert at space.net Mon Sep 2 12:54:42 2002 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 12:54:42 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Action from RIPE 42: Sub-Allocations revisited In-Reply-To: <015601c25010$bab7ed30$2e04bf3e@eu.frd.uu.net>; from stephenb@uk.uu.net on Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 11:33:50AM +0100 References: <015601c25010$bab7ed30$2e04bf3e@eu.frd.uu.net> Message-ID: <20020902125442.G27015@Space.Net> Hi, I have waited for a few days before responding, to wait for more comments, but nothing yet :-/ On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 11:33:50AM +0100, Stephen Burley wrote: > My first comment - BTW this is a well outlined. > > - All assignments from the Sub-Allocation are done by the Sub-LIR. > The Sub-LIR is responsible to the LIR for following policies and > procedures. The LIR is responsible to the RIR for making sure that > the Sub-LIR follows the procedures. This is no big difference from > what is being *done* now, it's just "officially documented". > > I feel the Sub-LIR should still be responsible to RIPE for approvals etc. This is tricky, because the Sub-LIR has no contract with RIPE, so responsibility isn't easy. Also, this would mean added cost, I'd say. I'm not sure why you think it is necessary, though. If the LIR is responsible to RIPE for everything itself and the Sub-LIR does, and the LIR will run into problems with RIPE if "they do not keep their house in order", it's in their interest to make sure that the Sub-LIR does also do the right thing. Of course, the maximum assignment that any Sub-LIR does has to be inside the AW of the LIR - otherwise the LIR cannot approve it themselves or delegate responsibility, but has to go to RIPE for this assignment - whoever is requesting it. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 46812 (46611) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster at Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From chr at jay.net Mon Sep 2 13:56:58 2002 From: chr at jay.net (Christian Rasmussen) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 13:56:58 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Action from RIPE 42: Sub-Allocations revisited In-Reply-To: <20020902125442.G27015@Space.Net> Message-ID: Hi, > Hi, > > I have waited for a few days before responding, to wait for more comments, > but nothing yet :-/ Yes, I had also hoped for some comments.. > > On Fri, Aug 30, 2002 at 11:33:50AM +0100, Stephen Burley wrote: > > My first comment - BTW this is a well outlined. > > > > - All assignments from the Sub-Allocation are done by the Sub-LIR. > > The Sub-LIR is responsible to the LIR for following policies and > > procedures. The LIR is responsible to the RIR for making sure that > > the Sub-LIR follows the procedures. This is no big difference from > > what is being *done* now, it's just "officially documented". > > > > I feel the Sub-LIR should still be responsible to RIPE for > approvals etc. > > This is tricky, because the Sub-LIR has no contract with RIPE, so > responsibility isn't easy. Also, this would mean added cost, I'd say. > > I'm not sure why you think it is necessary, though. > > If the LIR is responsible to RIPE for everything itself and the Sub-LIR > does, and the LIR will run into problems with RIPE if "they do not > keep their house in order", it's in their interest to make sure that the > Sub-LIR does also do the right thing. > > Of course, the maximum assignment that any Sub-LIR does has to be inside > the AW of the LIR - otherwise the LIR cannot approve it themselves or > delegate responsibility, but has to go to RIPE for this > assignment - whoever > is requesting it. > I agree with Gert, its the LIRs responsibility that the sub-LIR acts appropriately. I don't think that the LIR's AW is relevant for the sub-LIR, all assignments made by the sub-LIR has to be approved by the LIR, if the assignment is within the LIR's AW then there is no problem, if not, the LIR has to ask Ripe as with any other assignment larger than AW. Med venlig hilsen/Best regards Christian Rasmussen Hosting manager, jay.net a/s Frederiksgade 7, 2., 1265 Kobenhavn K., Denmark Email: noc at jay.net Personal email: chr at jay.net Tlf./Phone: +45 3336 6300, Fax: +45 3336 6301 Produkter / Products: http://hosting.jay.net From gert at space.net Mon Sep 2 14:07:02 2002 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 14:07:02 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Action from RIPE 42: Sub-Allocations revisited In-Reply-To: ; from chr@jay.net on Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 01:56:58PM +0200 References: <20020902125442.G27015@Space.Net> Message-ID: <20020902140702.N27015@Space.Net> Hi, On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 01:56:58PM +0200, Christian Rasmussen wrote: > > Of course, the maximum assignment that any Sub-LIR does has to be inside > > the AW of the LIR - otherwise the LIR cannot approve it themselves or > > delegate responsibility, but has to go to RIPE for this > > assignment - whoever > > is requesting it. > > I agree with Gert, its the LIRs responsibility that the sub-LIR acts > appropriately. > > I don't think that the LIR's AW is relevant for the sub-LIR, all assignments > made by the sub-LIR has to be approved by the LIR, if the assignment is > within the LIR's AW then there is no problem, if not, the LIR has to ask > Ripe as with any other assignment larger than AW. Actually, one of the points about this whole thing is that the Sub-LIR *is* permitted to do their own assignments - up to a maximum size that has to be negotiated between Sub-LIR and LIR (and the maximum size must not exceed the LIR's own AW, of course). That way, the Sub-LIR can do all the "regular" stuff completely on their own. If a "bigger" request comes in, the Sub-LIR forwards it to the LIR, and for a "very big" request, the LIR forwards to the RIR. Nevertheless: all this would be something optional. If a LIR does not *want* their Sub-LIR to have their own "Sub-AW", they do not *have* to give them one (so they would have to forward all requests to the LIR). Also, of course, the LIR does not *have* to do Sub-Allocations. This is strictly an option for LIRs that have "experienced resellers" (for example) that can be trusted to understand and follow the rules. It is expected that many LIRs will not ever need this. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 46812 (46611) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster at Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From pieterjan at itn.skynet.be Wed Sep 4 10:52:15 2002 From: pieterjan at itn.skynet.be (D'HERTOG Pieterjan) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:52:15 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going to the RIPE meetin g Message-ID: By Matt Loney and Rupert Goodwins ZDNet (UK) September 3, 2002, 3:18 PM PT URL: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-956357.html In Greece, playing a shoot-'em-up video game could land you in jail. The Greek government has banned all electronic games across the country, including those that run on home computers, on Game Boy-style portable consoles, and on mobile phones. Thousands of tourists in Greece are unknowingly facing heavy fines or long terms in prison for owning mobile phones or portable video games. Greek Law Number 3037, enacted at the end of July, explicitly forbids electronic games with "electronic mechanisms and software" from public and private places, and people have already been fined tens of thousands of dollars for playing or owning games. The law applies equally to visitors from abroad: "If you know these things are banned, you should not bring them in," said a commercial attach? at the Greek Embassy in London, who declined to give her name. Internet cafes will be allowed to continue to operate, providing no games-playing takes place. If a customer is found to be running any sort of game, including online chess, the cafe owner will be fined and the place closed. The Greek government introduced the law in an attempt to prevent illegal gambling. According to a report in the Greek newspaper Kathimerini, Greek police will be responsible for catching offenders, who will face fines of 5,000 to 75,000 euros (about $4,980 to $74,650) and imprisonment of one to 12 months. "The blanket ban was decided in February after the government admitted it was incapable of distinguishing innocuous video games from illegal gambling machines," the report said. The Greek gaming community has reacted with a mixture of shock, disbelief and anger. One Web site, www.gameland.gr, has started a news service about the ban and opened a petition to protest it. In addition, it is posting English translations of the law and messages of support from around the world. A test case is to come before the Greek courts next week, and the Greek gaming community is already planning protests in the event that the defendant is convicted. "We are trying to organize a protest against this law," said Petros Tipis of Thessaloniki-based gaming company Reload Entertainment, which has had to cancel a gaming tournament that was to be held this week. If the prosecution of the defendant next week is successful, said Tipis, the Greek gaming industry will take the case to the European Court. In the meantime, Tipis told ZDNet UK, a lot of people in Greece are very worried about the new law. "They are taking it very seriously," he said. "It even affects the games that come with Windows. This law isn't the right one," he added. "It is unfair. It was introduced too quickly." Reload's tournament, which was to be held Fridah, was a qualifier for the CPL Oslo 2002 gaming tournament. "Now we are trying not to lose the two slots we were given from CPL for the tournament," Tipis said. "This was the first time for a qualifier (for this tournament) in Greece." ZDNet UK's Rupert Goodwins and Matt Loney reported from London. --- Pieterjan d'Hertog, Senior Network Engineer Belgacom Skynet NV/SA, 2 Rue Carli, B-1140 Brussels Phone +3227061311 Fax +3227061150 http://www.skynet.be PGP fingerprint: D9AB CD6A 2A78 73CC 68BF 0AFA 8FB3 5821 E4BB 9D2E From neil at COLT.NET Wed Sep 4 11:08:30 2002 From: neil at COLT.NET (Neil J. McRae) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:08:30 +0100 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going to the RIPE meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well in Corfu, they didn't seem to be taking much notice of this, they still were selling games and a few bars had games to play. I found out about it because the hotel I stayed in during my vacation had closed their games room because of it. Stupid law. Regards, Neil. From gert at space.net Thu Sep 5 08:28:24 2002 From: gert at space.net (Gert Doering) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:28:24 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Action from RIPE 42: Sub-Allocations revisited In-Reply-To: <20020829153040.M27015@Space.Net>; from gert@space.net on Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 03:30:40PM +0200 References: <20020829153040.M27015@Space.Net> Message-ID: <20020905082824.A80106@Space.Net> Hi, On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 03:30:40PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote: > [Sub-Allocations] > > In the last months, I've heard a few comments from different sides that > "hmm, yes, this could be exactly what we need". Also, APNIC is working > on a similar proposal for their community. >From what I hear, APNIC has now accepted this as new policy. http://www.apnic.org/meetings/14/sigs/policy/docs/addrpol-pres-apnic-downstreamallocs.ppt I haven't looked at the powerpoint slides myself yet (no windows here), but want to forward it anyway, to spread the information about what other regions do... The number of comments I have received so far are pretty few (two persons!) - does this mean the rest of you doesn't care either way, or do we have consensus that this is "fine", no need to discuss? Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 46812 (46611) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster at Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 From crain at icann.org Thu Sep 5 08:59:40 2002 From: crain at icann.org (John Crain) Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 23:59:40 -0700 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going to the RIPE meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c254a9$d1a93a10$431a0bca@VAIO> So have they banned the Microsoft operating system that comes with card games etc. as standard:) ________________________ From Daniel.Karrenberg at ripe.net Thu Sep 5 09:05:47 2002 From: Daniel.Karrenberg at ripe.net (Daniel Karrenberg) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 09:05:47 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going to the RIPE meeting In-Reply-To: <000101c254a9$d1a93a10$431a0bca@VAIO> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20020905090439.026262e0@localhost.ripe.net> At 08:59 AM 9/5/2002, John Crain wrote: >So have they banned the Microsoft operating system that comes with card >games etc. as standard:) Yes. They are checking at the borders on only admit laptops with *ix and *BSD operating systems. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) From av at nethead.de Thu Sep 5 09:09:29 2002 From: av at nethead.de (Arnd Vehling) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 09:09:29 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going tothe RIPE meeting References: <4.3.2.7.2.20020905090439.026262e0@localhost.ripe.net> Message-ID: <3D770329.E9D0DF4B@nethead.de> Daniel Karrenberg wrote: > > At 08:59 AM 9/5/2002, John Crain wrote: > >So have they banned the Microsoft operating system that comes with card > >games etc. as standard:) > > Yes. They are checking at the borders on only admit laptops with *ix and *BSD > operating systems. Are those the OS's that come with the game "nethack"? -- NetHead Network Design and Security Arnd Vehling av at nethead.De Gummersbacherstr. 27 Phone: +49 221 8809210 50679 K?ln Fax : +49 221 8809212 From CHallam at sdlintl.com Thu Sep 5 09:25:54 2002 From: CHallam at sdlintl.com (Chris Hallam) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:25:54 +0100 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going tothe RIPE meeting Message-ID: <058E4C246CF26940A5D5EE0E3AE84755221ECB@tokyomail1.sdlintl.com> How are they defining the term, 'Game'? Surely it won't be long before they have to outlaw Internet browsing due to the various applets the pop up here and there. How did that law get passed, and what is it supposed to achieve? Chris -----Original Message----- From: Arnd Vehling [mailto:av at nethead.de] Sent: 05 September 2002 16:09 To: Daniel Karrenberg Cc: John Crain; 'D'HERTOG Pieterjan'; lir-wg at ripe.net Subject: Re: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going tothe RIPE meeting Daniel Karrenberg wrote: > > At 08:59 AM 9/5/2002, John Crain wrote: > >So have they banned the Microsoft operating system that comes with card > >games etc. as standard:) > > Yes. They are checking at the borders on only admit laptops with *ix and *BSD > operating systems. Are those the OS's that come with the game "nethack"? -- NetHead Network Design and Security Arnd Vehling av at nethead.De Gummersbacherstr. 27 Phone: +49 221 8809210 50679 K?ln Fax : +49 221 8809212 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anne at apnic.net Thu Sep 5 09:42:25 2002 From: anne at apnic.net (Anne Lord) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:42:25 +1000 (EST) Subject: [hostmaster-staff] Re: [lir-wg] Action from RIPE 42: Sub-Allocations revisited In-Reply-To: <20020905082824.A80106@Space.Net> Message-ID: Gert, Just to confirm that indeed this proposal was accepted at the APNIC Address Policy SIG here today. If you have any questions about the proposal, i would be happy to clarify. Best wishes, Anne APNIC > > [Sub-Allocations] > > > > In the last months, I've heard a few comments from different sides that > > "hmm, yes, this could be exactly what we need". Also, APNIC is working > > on a similar proposal for their community. > > >From what I hear, APNIC has now accepted this as new policy. > > http://www.apnic.org/meetings/14/sigs/policy/docs/addrpol-pres-apnic-downstreamallocs.ppt > > I haven't looked at the powerpoint slides myself yet (no windows here), > but want to forward it anyway, to spread the information about what other > regions do... > > The number of comments I have received so far are pretty few (two > persons!) - does this mean the rest of you doesn't care either way, or > do we have consensus that this is "fine", no need to discuss? > > Gert Doering > -- NetMaster > -- > Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 46812 (46611) > > SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster at Space.Net > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 > 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 > > * Mailing List: hostmaster-staff * > * Handled by majordomo at staff.apnic.net * > From neil at COLT.NET Thu Sep 5 09:52:09 2002 From: neil at COLT.NET (Neil J. McRae) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:52:09 +0100 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going to the RIPE meeting In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20020905090439.026262e0@localhost.ripe.net> Message-ID: Hmm rm -fr /usr/games then? Neil. -- Neil J. McRae - COLT neil at COLT.NET > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lir-wg at ripe.net [mailto:owner-lir-wg at ripe.net]On Behalf Of > Daniel Karrenberg > Sent: 05 September 2002 08:06 > To: John Crain > Cc: 'D'HERTOG Pieterjan'; lir-wg at ripe.net > Subject: RE: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going to > the RIPE meeting > > > At 08:59 AM 9/5/2002, John Crain wrote: > >So have they banned the Microsoft operating system that comes with card > >games etc. as standard:) > > Yes. They are checking at the borders on only admit laptops with > *ix and *BSD > operating systems. > > ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) > > From r.vanderberg at ndix.net Thu Sep 5 09:55:00 2002 From: r.vanderberg at ndix.net (Rudolf van der Berg) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 09:55:00 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going tothe RIPE meeting In-Reply-To: <058E4C246CF26940A5D5EE0E3AE84755221ECB@tokyomail1.sdlintl. com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020905093605.02fe5ea8@ndix-1.ndix.net> At 09:25 5-9-2002, Chris Hallam wrote: >How are they defining the term, 'Game'? Surely it won't be long before >they have to outlaw Internet browsing due to the various applets the pop >up here and there. How did that law get passed, and what is it supposed >to achieve? > >Chris To find the full text of the law, go here: http://www.netcafe.gr/files/law.txt Article 1d describes it in the broadest terms possible: (quote) d. Electronic games are those, that depend on both electrical-electronic mechanisms and software. (end quote) So when arriving in Greece, they could take away your cell-phone, cause it can play Tic Tac Toe, Snake or Space Invaders. :-) On the other hand... don't be too frightened. The law was passed to battle illegal gambling, certainly after a member of parliament was caught red-handed playing video poker. For more information you could read here, especially the third letter. : http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5208 greetings, Rudolf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mguz at Scotland.net Thu Sep 5 10:15:13 2002 From: mguz at Scotland.net (Mark S. Guz) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 09:15:13 +0100 Subject: [lir-wg] Action from RIPE 42: Sub-Allocations revisited References: <20020829153040.M27015@Space.Net> <20020905082824.A80106@Space.Net> Message-ID: <3D771291.6060503@Scotland.net> > I haven't looked at the powerpoint slides myself yet (no windows here), Don't need windows to look at power point presentations!! I use Redhat 7.3 with openoffice and its fine for looking at ppt files!! From denis at ripe.net Thu Sep 5 10:37:15 2002 From: denis at ripe.net (Denis Walker) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 10:37:15 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going tothe RIPE meeting In-Reply-To: Message from Rudolf van der Berg of "Thu, 05 Sep 2002 09:55:00 +0200." <5.1.0.14.0.20020905093605.02fe5ea8@ndix-1.ndix.net> Message-ID: <200209050837.g858bFEs016546@birch.ripe.net> I know it is a strange law, but everyone is looking at the negatives. There are also some positives to this law. Just think what an opportunity this is for Greek kids to re-invent long lost human skills like social interaction, face to face conversation, sport, exercising the whole body rather than just the fingers. Maybe even people will start to smile at each other on a train or bus or talk to each other in a queue instead of everyone sitting/standing there with heads down starring at their mobile phones like a bunch of zombies. It could be a new model for mankind :) cheers denis (who hates computer games anyway) Rudolf van der Berg writes: * --=====================_169121053==_.ALT * Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed * * At 09:25 5-9-2002, Chris Hallam wrote: * * >How are they defining the term, 'Game'? Surely it won't be long before * >they have to outlaw Internet browsing due to the various applets the pop * >up here and there. How did that law get passed, and what is it supposed * >to achieve? * > * >Chris * * To find the full text of the law, go here: http://www.netcafe.gr/files/law.t * xt * * Article 1d describes it in the broadest terms possible: (quote) d. * Electronic games are those, that depend on both electrical-electronic * mechanisms and software. (end quote) * * So when arriving in Greece, they could take away your cell-phone, cause it * can play Tic Tac Toe, Snake or Space Invaders. :-) On the other hand... * don't be too frightened. The law was passed to battle illegal gambling, * certainly after a member of parliament was caught red-handed playing video * poker. For more information you could read here, especially the third * letter. : * * http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5208 * * greetings, * * Rudolf * * --=====================_169121053==_.ALT * Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" * * * At 09:25 5-9-2002, Chris Hallam wrote:

*
How are they defining * the term, 'Game'?  Surely it won't be long before they have to * outlaw Internet browsing due to the various applets the pop up here and * there.  How did that law get passed, and what is it supposed to * achieve?
*
* Chris

* To find the full text of the law, go here: * http://www.ne * tcafe.gr/files/law.txt

* Article 1d describes it in the broadest terms possible: (quote) d. * Electronic games are those, that depend on both electrical-electronic * mechanisms and software. (end quote)

* So when arriving in Greece, they could take away your cell-phone, cause * it can play Tic Tac Toe, Snake or Space Invaders. :-) On the other * hand... don't be too frightened. The law was passed to battle illegal * gambling, certainly after a member of parliament was caught red-handed * playing video poker. For more information you could read here, especially * the third letter. :

* http://w * ww.theinquirer.net/?article=5208

* greetings,

* Rudolf
* * * --=====================_169121053==_.ALT-- * From ruanoj at redestel.com Thu Sep 5 12:31:25 2002 From: ruanoj at redestel.com (Jonathan Ruano) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 12:31:25 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going tothe RIPE meeting References: <200209050837.g858bFEs016546@birch.ripe.net> Message-ID: <01e401c254c7$63c40110$5dc772c3@zazl08> Yes, it will also cut down dramatically software piracy (for games, at least :) Jonathan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis Walker" > I know it is a strange law, but everyone is looking at the negatives. There > are also some positives to this law. > cheers > denis (who hates computer games anyway) From samir at cybourse.com Thu Sep 5 11:18:49 2002 From: samir at cybourse.com (samir koleilat) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:18:49 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going tothe RIPE meeting References: <200209050837.g858bFEs016546@birch.ripe.net> Message-ID: <3D772179.2020608@cybourse.com> Thank you Denis for those words that remind us that all the relations between the humans are being replaced by relations with the dump machines with out any imagination or any Dreams... sam Denis Walker a ?crit: >I know it is a strange law, but everyone is looking at the negatives. There >are also some positives to this law. > >Just think what an opportunity this is for Greek kids to re-invent long lost >human skills like social interaction, face to face conversation, sport, >exercising the whole body rather than just the fingers. Maybe even people will >start to smile at each other on a train or bus or talk to each other in a >queue instead of everyone sitting/standing there with heads down starring at >their mobile phones like a bunch of zombies. It could be a new model for >mankind :) > >cheers >denis (who hates computer games anyway) > > Rudolf van der Berg writes: > * --=====================_169121053==_.ALT > * Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > * > * At 09:25 5-9-2002, Chris Hallam wrote: > * > * >How are they defining the term, 'Game'? Surely it won't be long before > * >they have to outlaw Internet browsing due to the various applets the pop > * >up here and there. How did that law get passed, and what is it supposed > * >to achieve? > * > > * >Chris > * > * To find the full text of the law, go here: http://www.netcafe.gr/files/law.t > * xt > * > * Article 1d describes it in the broadest terms possible: (quote) d. > * Electronic games are those, that depend on both electrical-electronic > * mechanisms and software. (end quote) > * > * So when arriving in Greece, they could take away your cell-phone, cause it > * can play Tic Tac Toe, Snake or Space Invaders. :-) On the other hand... > * don't be too frightened. The law was passed to battle illegal gambling, > * certainly after a member of parliament was caught red-handed playing video > * poker. For more information you could read here, especially the third > * letter. : > * > * http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=5208 > * > * greetings, > * > * Rudolf > * > * --=====================_169121053==_.ALT > * Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" > * > * > * At 09:25 5-9-2002, Chris Hallam wrote:

> *
How are they defining > * the term, 'Game'?  Surely it won't be long before they have to > * outlaw Internet browsing due to the various applets the pop up here and > * there.  How did that law get passed, and what is it supposed to > * achieve?
> *
> * Chris

> * To find the full text of the law, go here: > * http://www.ne > * tcafe.gr/files/law.txt

> * Article 1d describes it in the broadest terms possible: (quote) d. > * Electronic games are those, that depend on both electrical-electronic > * mechanisms and software. (end quote)

> * So when arriving in Greece, they could take away your cell-phone, cause > * it can play Tic Tac Toe, Snake or Space Invaders. :-) On the other > * hand... don't be too frightened. The law was passed to battle illegal > * gambling, certainly after a member of parliament was caught red-handed > * playing video poker. For more information you could read here, especially > * the third letter. :

> * http://w > * ww.theinquirer.net/?article=5208

> * greetings,

> * Rudolf
> * > * > * --=====================_169121053==_.ALT-- > * > > > > > > From charles at ripe.net Thu Sep 5 12:37:59 2002 From: charles at ripe.net (Charles Dain Hornbeck) Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 12:37:59 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Remove all games from your laptop before going tothe RIPE meeting In-Reply-To: <01e401c254c7$63c40110$5dc772c3@zazl08> References: <200209050837.g858bFEs016546@birch.ripe.net> <01e401c254c7$63c40110$5dc772c3@zazl08> Message-ID: <20020905123759.4ad92b5b.charles@ripe.net> I have heard enough about this for now. If you are not a gamer then you should have no worries. If you do enjoy a game every so often then help out the poor Greek gamers by signing the petition... link below. http://www.petitiononline.com/comp5932/petition.html On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 12:31:25 +0200 "Jonathan Ruano" wrote: > Yes, it will also cut down dramatically software piracy (for games, at least > :) > > Jonathan. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Denis Walker" > > > > I know it is a strange law, but everyone is looking at the negatives. > There > > are also some positives to this law. > > > cheers > > denis (who hates computer games anyway) > > >>>>>>> Regards, ------------------ Charles Hornbeck RIPE NCC Hostmaster ------------------- Tips --------------> http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/tips/tips.html FAQ --------------> http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/faq/index.html Free Training -----> http://www.ripe.net/training WebAsused ---------> http://www.ripe.net/cgi-bin/webasused.pl.cgi From ncc at ripe.net Thu Sep 5 18:18:16 2002 From: ncc at ripe.net (RIPE NCC Document Announcement Service) Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 18:18:16 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] New Document available: RIPE-253 Message-ID: <200209051618.g85GIGEs030969@birch.ripe.net> New/Revised RIPE Document Announcement -------------------------------------- A revised/new document is available from the RIPE document store. Ref: ripe-253 Title: RIPE Database User Manual: Getting Started Author: Andrei Robachevsky, Shane Kerr, Vesna Manojlovic Samantha Dickinson Date: 9 September 2002 Format: PS=78771 TXT= Available soon Obsoletes: Obsoleted by: Updates: Updated by: Short content description ------------------------- This document is intended for users who have no previous experience with the RIPE Database. It is a hands-on tutorial that walks the reader through the basic concepts and techniques that are needed to use the RIPE Database using example and exercises. This document is not intended to be a complete reference. Full information on the RIPE Database may be found in the RIPE Database Reference Manual at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/databaseref-manual.html Accessing the RIPE document store --------------------------------- You can access the RIPE documents in HTML format via WWW. the "RIPE Database User Manual: Getting Started" is available at the following URL: http://www.ripe.net/docs/db-start.html The RIPE document store is also available via anonymous FTP to ftp.ripe.net, in the directory ripe/docs. The URLs for the new documents on the FTP-server are: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-253.ps PostScript version ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-253.txt plain text version Please note that the .txt version will be available as soon as possible. Kind Regards, Jeroen Bet RIPE NCC Webmaster From hpholen at tiscali.no Tue Sep 10 11:37:58 2002 From: hpholen at tiscali.no (Hans Petter Holen) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:37:58 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Draft minutes from lir-wg at RIPE 42 References: <000301c1e5e1$bdb56ab0$070b2f0a@no.tiscali.com> Message-ID: <005101c258ad$c0c7c7e0$8e0800c1@no.tiscali.com> Dear lir-wg, The draft minutes has been published on http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/lir/r42-minutes.html Please read trough if you have not done so allready and submit comments to the mailingslist before tomorrow mornings meeting. Hans Petter From hpholen at tiscali.no Tue Sep 10 11:42:40 2002 From: hpholen at tiscali.no (Hans Petter Holen) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:42:40 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Draft agenda for LIR WG at RIPE 43 References: <00a601c244a2$5b6e4820$7f00a8c0@no.tiscali.com> Message-ID: <005a01c258ae$685c7a00$8e0800c1@no.tiscali.com> Dear lir-wg, Here comes a slighlty updated version of the agenda. Please get in touch with me as soon as possible if I have missed out some items on the Agenda. The LIR Working Group session will be held on Wednesday 11 September 2002 from 09.00 - 12.30. Draft Agenda for RIPE 43 (version 0.2) 09:00 - 12:30 Wednesday, 11 September 2002 Chair: Hans Petter Holen Co-chair: Denesh Bhabuta A. Admin: Scribe Participant List, Charter, Mailing lists, Chair& co-chair update B. Agenda bashing C. RIPE 42 minutes and actions D. Report from the RIPE NCC Registration Services - Presentation by leo vegoda E. Report from the Address Council - Presentation F. IPv4 Assignment and Allocation Policy F.1 "Official Sub-Allocations" Proposal by Gert Doering G. IPv4 Assignment and Allocation Policy G.1 6bone transition - Axel Pawlik H. Presentation of AC candiates X. Any other business Y. Summary of actions arising from this meeting Z. Open microphone ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- For current issues, please turn to the LIR Working Group mailing list archives at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail-archives/lir-wg/index.html More information about this working group is located at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/wg/lir/index.html Best regards, --- Hans Petter Holen, Technical Manager, Tiscali, Norway, phone: +47 24 11 26 44 mobile: +47 99 21 76 70 fax:+47 24 11 24 11 From hpholen at tiscali.no Tue Sep 24 20:56:38 2002 From: hpholen at tiscali.no (Hans Petter Holen) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:56:38 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] Presentations given in the LIR WG at RIPE 43 References: <00a601c244a2$5b6e4820$7f00a8c0@no.tiscali.com> <005a01c258ae$685c7a00$8e0800c1@no.tiscali.com> Message-ID: <00da01c263fc$2144f170$7f00a8c0@no.tiscali.com> The presentations from the LIR-wg can be found on the http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/index.html#l ir the working group report to the ripe plenary can be found at http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/archive/ripe-43/presentations/ripe43-plena ry-lir/ Best Regards Hans Petter Holen, Technical Manager, Tiscali, Norway, phone: +47 24 11 26 44 mobile: +47 99 21 76 70 fax:+47 24 11 24 11 From hpholen at tiscali.no Tue Sep 24 23:57:01 2002 From: hpholen at tiscali.no (Hans Petter Holen) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:57:01 +0200 Subject: [lir-wg] ICANN Reform Message-ID: <305762843.1032911821@[192.168.0.128]> Dear lir-wg, On the topic if the ICANN reform http://www.icann.org/committees/evol-reform/blueprint-20jun02.htm With reference to the RIR joint statement of June 20th http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/about/regional/rir-icann-statement-20020620.html and the response from the ICANN reform committee: http://www.icann.org/committees/evol-reform/update-16sep02.htm and the discussion at the RIPE meeting I would like to ask the lir-wg members to study theese statements and actively participate in the ICANN reform process. Either by: 1) Discussion on this list, and with clear advice to your AC members on how you wish to advice us to act. or 2) submitting your oppinion directly to the ERC http://www.icann.org/committees/evol-reform/blueprint-20jun02.htm Best Regards, Hans Petter Holen lir-wg chair