[anti-abuse-wg] Abuse Reporting Issues
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Wilfried Woeber
Woeber at CC.UniVie.ac.at
Sat Mar 16 14:59:39 CET 2013
Arnold wrote: > On 3/15/2013 2:03 AM, MailPlus| David Hofstee wrote: > >> Hi Frederik, >> >> I am such a person (DH3195-RIPE). I entered my email a long time ago. >> Unlike passwords that expire and accounts that get locked when not >> used, this vital contact info is never re-validated. We never get mail >> that says: "Ripe wants to confirm that you are still having Role X in >> your organisation. Click here to confirm.". A full-inbox bounce could >> trigger a phone call. Etc. Ripe should charge money for not keeping >> records up to date. > > My sentiments exactly. > Without ongoing efforts to verify and costs to the client for failing to > respond, all of this possibly keeps some people busy, but does nothing > to help stem SPAM. And even if there would be money involved, some way or another, SPAM would not go away or become less. It simply is a fact, that sending unsolicited messages simply is not illegal in some places. In some corners of the world it is even a business model. So whether the contact info is "correct" (for any definition of), working (for any definition of) or not, is mostly a non-issue in this case. Bothering the RIPE NCC again and again is also not going to have a too big impact. There are quite a few other well-established mechanisms to fight unwanted (again, for any definition of) activities. Like Regulators, Trade Commissions, national and sector-specific or ISP-related CERTs and so on. And - hopping on my soap-box - the real problem to solve is to educate the users to *not* react to SPAM. No business gained by spamming, costing money (even if it is cheap), would make it go away pretty quickly. End soap-box :-) Wilfried > Arnold > >> >> In my (ESP) world, an email address that has not been used by the >> list-owner for over a year is a risk for a spam trap ;-). >> >> Bye, >> >> David >> >> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >> Van: Fredrik Widell [mailto:fredrik at resilans.se] >> Verzonden: vrijdag 15 maart 2013 09:30 >> Aan: MailPlus| David Hofstee >> CC: Arnold; Denis Walker; Tobias Knecht; anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net >> Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Abuse Reporting Issues >> >> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013, MailPlus| David Hofstee wrote: >> >> >> >> There is a way of always reaching the correct recipients when it comes >> to reporting abuse, which it seems every single abuse-department is >> neglecting to use. >> >> Why not take a look at the source, see which Autonomous System is >> actually announcing the prefix the address belongs to, it is quite >> hard to hide that information. >> >> (there are a lot of free looking-glasses on the Internet for those of >> you who does not have access to a router, or, why not use ripes >> riswhois :) >> >> When you know the AS, return to the whois-databases and look for the >> contact information for that Autonomous System, and contact them >> instead, they will always know which the offending customer is, they >> can always do something about the problem. >> >> And the best part, it actually works :) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> I have never seen an email asking me to confirm that I still do the >>> stuff that is listed in my local RIR... >>> >>> David >>> >>> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- >>> Van: anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net >>> [mailto:anti-abuse-wg-bounces at ripe.net] Namens Arnold >>> Verzonden: vrijdag 15 maart 2013 09:29 >>> Aan: Denis Walker >>> CC: Tobias Knecht; anti-abuse-wg at ripe.net >>> Onderwerp: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Abuse Reporting Issues >>> >>> On 3/14/2013 3:28 AM, Denis Walker wrote: >>> >>>> The RIPE Database contains many email addresses. These addresses are >>>> there for different reasons. Many attributes may point you to an >>>> email address, for example: >>>> admin-c: >>>> tech-c: >>>> zone-c: >>>> ping-hdl: >>>> notify: >>>> ref-nfy: >>>> mnt-ref: >>>> changed: >>>> >>>> and abuse-mailbox: >>>> >>>> Only this last one is specifically intended for abuse complaints. The >>>> problem we had in the past is that this attribute was always optional >>>> and if used could be put in many different places. >>> >>> I applaud the motion to make the attribute mandatory; whether it will >>> have much effect in reality I'll wait and see. >>> >>> I realize there are many addresses in the RIPE database and if at all >>> possible - for records without an abuse -email address - I tend to >>> address my report to the admin-c, as I see those people as the most >>> likely to have any influence on getting the 'problem' fixed. >>> >>>> I think in this context 'usable' may have different interpretations. >>>> One of the functions of the RIPE Database is for engineers to be able >>>> to contact each other to resolve network and routing problems. >>>> Sending an abuse report to a network engineer because he has a >>>> 'usable' email address in the database may not achieve the result >>>> you were expecting. >>>> >>> No disagreement on this from me. I merely pointed out that for _my_ >>> purposes, the Abuse Finder is less useful than the IANA files or the >>> RIPE query page. >>> >>>> The Abuse Finder tool returns the email addresses that have been >>>> provided for receiving abuse reports. If no such address has been >>>> provided the tool will return nothing, even if there are other email >>>> addresses in the database that are intended for other purposes. >>> >>> Understood and accepted, but I have to and have had to work with what >>> there was available. >>> If the available resources change, with time my approach will change >>> as well. >>> >>>> Over the next few months, as the abuse-c: data is entered into the >>>> database, the Abuse Finder tool will return more positive results. >>>> This will be the quickest and most reliable way to find abuse >>>> contacts for any resource. >>> >>> Hope your expectations will become reality. >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> Arnold >>> >>> > >
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