Re: [ncc-regional-middle-east] Regional Peering

[Saleem Albalooshi saleem@localhost]

Dear Fahad,
I think UAE and Bahrain has more than just 2MB connection, but could you 
send me the results of the "tracert",
in some cases even the site a ".ae" and about UAE, but it's hosted 
outside UAE, which another issue need to be addressed.
Fahad AlShirawi wrote:

Salman,

We have indeed discussed those contents and this approach. I think I agree with you and your proposal more than any other. It is the best setup overall and allows for significant diversity in the connectivity and the peering arrangements.

Saleem,

The issue is not if there exists a peering link. Yes, it is there. However, as I sit here in Bahrain and tracert a site in the UAE, I still go via the US. I don’t think this is because the setup is not right. I think it is simply because a 2Mbps peering link cannot handle the volume of traffic that needs to flow in between our countries.

Of course, I have no statistics on usage of those links and I don’t put the full blame on the bandwidth, but I do think we need to do something about it. I’m seconding Salman’s proposal and saying we don’t need to wait for a GCC telecom committee to get together to do this. Especially since not everyone involved is a member of such a committee.

Regards,

Fahad.

-----Original Message-----
*From:* Salman Al-Mannai [
	    
	    
]
*Sent:* 24 May 2006 11:10
*To:* Saleem Albalooshi; Fahad AlShirawi
*Cc:* John Leong; ncc-regional-middle-east@localhost
*Subject:* RE: [ncc-regional-middle-east] Regional Peering

Dear Saleem and Fahad,

I do understand Fahad's concenrs, that is why I'm for the IX-IX peering appraoch in the GCC, this matter has been pursued by Saleem and Mr. Aabdulla Hashem. however, we still need some political levrage in order to proceed (ea. to be put on the agenda of one of the GCC telecom committees, and then to be enforced by the respective regulator).

second, the idea of pursuing a NAP/NSP, this is purely a commercial descission that is typically assessed from financial feasiblity perspective, while peering will make sense for the obvious reasons that have been mentioned in several ocasions.

I also don't find it proper to establish one common place for peer-ers to exchange traffic (ea. GCC IXP) while it may save on linking costs, it may also become an operational burden on the host, and may again add to the cost. my suggestion is to have adjacent peering among niebourghing operators (ex. Oman<->UAE<->Qatar<->Bahrain<->Kuwait<->Saudi Arabia<->Oman - back)

I don't meen to set you back by mentioning the above, I just wanted to illusterate situation, I've already passed a presentation (which was done in part by Saleem, he has already given references to his past work on this) which I don't mind sharing with you, if Saleem does not mind.

NB: Fahad, we have already discussed the contents of the presentation in January.

regards

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*From:* ncc-regional-middle-east-admin@localhost on behalf of Saleem Albalooshi

*Sent:* Wed 5/24/2006 12:58 AM
*To:* Fahad AlShirawi
*Cc:* 'John Leong'; ncc-regional-middle-east@localhost
*Subject:* Re: [ncc-regional-middle-east] Regional Peering

Dear Fahad,
Thank you very much for your valuable participation.

The good new is that all the main ISP's in the GCC countries are already
interconnected since 2004.

Below are some documents that may help in understanding the peering
status between the GCC countries.

http://www.gcc-itrc.ae/en/Meetings/first/Presentations.html
http://www.gcc-itrc.ae/wgs/ae_kw.html
http://www.gcc-itrc.ae/Files/gcc_peering_update.ppt

What I now is that Etisalat has built an excellent peering connectivity
with most of the countries in the region, for example:
1. All GCC countries (Saudi, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman)
2. India
3. Singapore
4. Malaysia
5. Cypris
6. Taiwan
7. Japan
8. Hong Kong
9. Sudan
Also with some international Exchange points i.e LINEX and NYIIX.

and Much more,
Mr. Moeen Aqrabawi, could you please help in updating us on the status
of the Peering connectivity from the UAE.

We need to here from other members in this list on the peering
connectivity from their countries.

Best Regards,
Saleem
UAEnic

Fahad AlShirawi wrote:

My first contribution to this mailing list:

John,

While I definitely agree with your assessment, there are issues in the
GCC that sadly make peering a dream we are all waiting for but are very
unlikely to realize any time soon. On one hand, the PTTs are all looking
to peer with each other, while at the same time are wary of each other.
The only two countries I know off that have appropriate direct peering
are the Emarites and Qatar. Even that is only something I heard and I am
not actually sure off. In any case, when a new player indicates interest
in a peering arrangement, the propose IP Transit. It's the mentality of:
We are big and you are small, why do you need peering? Just take IP
Transit from us.

On the other hand, bandwidth to the US, once you hit a landing point, is
a lot cheaper than bandwidth controlled by monopolies in the GCC. There
are no IRUs currently between GCC countries and the first cable system
of its kind that will allow someone other than the monopolies to own
capacity is... Well, Falcon, but god knows when Falcon will be complete.
It's over a year late now. Additionally, in some countries, because FLAG
partnered with the PTTs there, they will not sell capacity directly to a
competitor of the PTT but will leave it up to the PTT to control. Their
argument, said in private, is that they can't anger their partners by
selling to a competitor of theirs. Publicly, their position is this: You
don't need the capacity. We are trying to help you. Don't take it.

When you insist you do, you are ignored.

As to the NAP issue, there are people working on building one and then
attempting to attract the business. I know Mr. Ahmad AlHujairi who I
believe is a member of this list is doing just that with Gulf Gateway
Internet. I wish them all the luck and success. I would like to see this
happen and I would like to see peering become a reality. Still, I think
they are a long way away from that kind of success.

In any case, so far, I feel that STC in Saudi is the most open to
negotiations and discussion.



Regards,


Fahad.






-----Original Message-----
From: ncc-regional-middle-east-admin@localhost
[
	    
	    
] On Behalf Of John Leong
Sent: 22 May 2006 11:58
To: Saleem Albalooshi; ncc-regional-middle-east@localhost
Subject: Re: [ncc-regional-middle-east] Regional Peering


Sorry for the late response. Yes, it is totally inefficient (and
strange)
to have traffic between the GCC countries to go through the US.

Not only will it add latency you are also unecessary using up some very
expensive long haul bandwidth. BTW: On latency, while the longer round

trip propagation delay is clearly a factor, the real pain is additional
router hops. Routers are real nasty since besides queueing delay, they
are
congestion points. The impact of packet loss [on TCP] is orders of
magnitude more than any propagation delay, since you will have to pay
the
direct penality of time out [to discover you have lost a packet] as well
as
suffer longer term side effect of having you transmission window
reduced.

In any event, you should peer with each other within the GCC. From
engineering point of view, NAP makes a lot of sense. However,
practically,
most of the ISPs do bi-lateral rather than multilateral peering at a
single
location so the NAP's role is somewhat diminished.

Best regards,
John



----- Original Message -----
From: "Saleem Albalooshi" saleem@localhost

Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 2:26 AM
Subject: [ncc-regional-middle-east] Regional Peering

Dear All,
Kindly find below a writeup about the importance of establishing

peering

connectivity between the regional ISP's, please feel free to correct

or

comment on any technical or linguistic information in the writeup

below.

Saleem Al-Balooshi
UAEnic

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